I wouldn't say a flop, just vastly over priced. If you'd got him for £1m he's a steal
Henderson, i think is harder to judge, simply because he's playing, imo, out of position on the flank. His attributes are his engine and shot passing ability, suited to a CM position.
He is not able to take people on, or whip a cross in, it's just not his game.
The others (Adam, Carroll, Downing) have all had time in their natural positions and for 90% of the time have been failures.
But in any case, i would expect more for £16m such as a bit of versatility.
It's been said many times before but Henderson has performed well. He hasn't been outstanding but he has did well for a 21 year old player. He is captain of the England 21 team and has a lot of potential. If you look at his first few games when he was brimming with confidence, you'll see a player that was bursting forward and getting shots in. He hasn't been allowed this role but that will come later, when he has a couple more years under his belt.
Henderson will justify his 16m price tag, of that I have no doubt.
comment by redconn > (U5676)
wow good post Elvis
--------------------------------
How dare you sound so surprised?
Ham Shankly,
I'm not saying that my/our judgement of a player over 7 months will determine how good they will be in the long term. I do feel, however, as fans, its a fair debate to have about any player that has graced our league for this period of time.
I dont have a set period in my head, ie. i couldn't say, yes its fair to judge on 7 months but not 5, i just think at this point in the season we can all be grown up & say what we think without it being too ridiculous.
There are many examples we can use on both sides of the coin, ones that have impressed (Demab Ba is another one) & others who have struggled (De Gea). Nothing is to say these wont prove us wrong, neither do i think its too hasty to pass comment at this stage.
Fact is you cant judge a 21 year old over 21 years lol.
We cant judge Henderson now. He's doing better than almost all other English players his age by getting to start all the time. He hasn't been exemplary but also he's not getting run over by the opposition as alot of others his age would.
Elvis
Krul has been at Newcastle since 2006.
================
I didnt refer to his time at Newcastle, just his time in the Prem (which is 7 months). Hence the comparison.
comment by Chicken (on a Basketball) ©™ (U1043)
posted 1 minute ago
Elvis
Krul has been at Newcastle since 2006.
================
I didnt refer to his time at Newcastle, just his time in the Prem (which is 7 months). Hence the comparison.
------------------------------------
What you refer to is a load of nonsense, much like every other post you make on Liverpool related topics. You just can't resist. You just can't fill your little life, without it, can you? So sad.
comment by Chicken (on a Basketball) ©™ (U1043)
I didnt refer to his time at Newcastle, just his time in the Prem (which is 7 months). Hence the comparison.
---------------------------------------
The point being that he has had time to settle. Henderson has moved to one of the two biggest clubs in the country for a big fee at 21 years of age. Taking that into consideration he has done ok. Once he settles in a bit more he will be fine.
I know what you're saying but i still feel 7 months is a decent amount of time for us to make an initial judgement.
---------------------
We have amade a judgment, and we are confident that he will be a very good footballer. He hasn;t set the world alight in the last 7 months, but we've seen enough to suggest that he will become very good, espcically once he is reguallry played in his favoured position.
All you see is that he cost 16m and he has one goal and one assist, which means he must be bad. What we see watching him game after game, is that he hasn't played that well but he has a lot of potential.
Kop in Kenya
Fact is you cant judge a 21 year old
=====================
Why not? Surely the term "judgement" isn't age specific.
If a player looks good or bad, we should be able to pass fair comment. If Henderson had won MotM 20 times this season, scorred 20+ goals & was first choice for England at the Euros, would you claim that its too early to judge?
Of course not. You dont want anyone passing judgement because you know the comments are more likely to be negative at this stage. With respect, you have to take the rough with the smooth.
FatJanMolby
All you see is that he cost 16m and he has one goal and one assist
===================
Not at all. I judge on all round performance.
There'sOnlyOneReds,
I wondered how long it would be until someone chucked in a WUM accusation, in what has been a very reasonable debate (so far).
Shame on you There'sOnlyOneReds, its members like you that spoil good debates on these boards.
Why not? Surely the term "judgement" isn't age specific.
-----------------------------------------------
No its not but the way you judge is, in Henderson we can see that he has the potential and that with a little more confidence he could be a great player, when he has actually played in the middle you can see his vision and some of his passes have completely broken up defences.
Now if we had bought him when he was like 28 we could judge him as a player that would never be good enough.
What difference would it make if he was flying but the rest of the team are cack? We have around 9 new first team players (almost a whole team) trying to gel. I think its quite daft to single out Henderson for criticism or negative judgment unless your judging the entire squad.
comment by Chicken (on a Basketball) ©™ (U1043)
posted 11 seconds ago
FatJanMolby
All you see is that he cost 16m and he has one goal and one assist
===================
Not at all. I judge on all round performance.
There'sOnlyOneReds,
I wondered how long it would be until someone chucked in a WUM accusation, in what has been a very reasonable debate (so far).
Shame on you There'sOnlyOneReds, its members like you that spoil good debates on these boards.
-------------------------
It's not exactly an accusation though is it? You've done your best throughout your time on here to confirm it as fact. I do hope you're proud of this achievement and it keeps you happy in cold winters.
However you're still talking kack.
If a player scores twenty etc etc, then it is without doubt he has performed, at 21. If he doesn't play great but average ans shows he has potential, then it shows he has the potential to play great. If he shows neither potential or ability in the present then it is obvious he hasn't the potential to be great.
What has been repeated throughout the article is that Henderson is a young player with huge potential and trying to pose opposition to that with silly logic of a player doing well at 21 is a very very poor attempt. It's not you must do better but you will do better, afterall you couldn't do any worse, or could you? Well it's you, so yes, yes you could, go!
If Henderson had scored twenty and had twenty assists am sure Chicken and Co would be on here telling us that we are using him too much at a young age and will burn him out ala michael Owen...... You just cant win.....
Geodude,
Again, i'm posting with sincerity, not from an anti-Liverpool (mainly because i'm not) or a WUM point of view.
Take Henderson out of the equation & just assume we're debating in general.
I dont like the using the word "potential" in a debate about current judgement. For example: Gio Dos Santos was meant to have "potential" but this has never materialised. There are numerous other examples too - you can probably think of others in your own club too that failed to cut the mustard.
I can appreciate you being slightly on the defensive (who isn't?), not only are you passionate about your club but i'm guessing you are fed up with the stick some of your players have received this season - thats natural.
Forget that you signed him, forget the price tag, has Henderson shown enough so far to be judged a success? I dont believe he has as it stands. That is all. Nothing more.
Not at all. I judge on all round performance.
------
Then you have poor judgement Chicken
comment by Chicken (on a Basketball) ©™ (U1043)
posted 8 seconds ago
Geodude,
Again, i'm posting with sincerity, not from an anti-Liverpool (mainly because i'm not) or a WUM point of view.
Take Henderson out of the equation & just assume we're debating in general.
I dont like the using the word "potential" in a debate about current judgement. For example: Gio Dos Santos was meant to have "potential" but this has never materialised. There are numerous other examples too - you can probably think of others in your own club too that failed to cut the mustard.
I can appreciate you being slightly on the defensive (who isn't?), not only are you passionate about your club but i'm guessing you are fed up with the stick some of your players have received this season - thats natural.
Forget that you signed him, forget the price tag, has Henderson shown enough so far to be judged a success? I dont believe he has as it stands. That is all. Nothing more.
----------------------------------------
So what you're saying is, forget potential, it's only the present which should be judged? Can you please confirm?
Check out the Skrtel article a few articles up. This guy got more stick than Henderson is getting at an older age and with more experience. He's "imperious" now......
Kop in Kenya
Chicken and Co would be on here telling us that we are using him too much at a young age and will burn him out ala michael Owen......
=====================
Thats a bit unfair. This article is about Henderson & i have been honest about it. I'm not sure what you want from a debating site. Other than to hail him as the next Emlyn Hughes, its unlikely i'm going to get anything but negative comments about my postings.
There'sOnlyOneReds, your problem is you just cant handle contructive criticism. If you dont agree with a poster you just shout "WUM" & throw insults about. Its a bit playground to be honest, fella.
Chicken
Demba ba can be said to be a success right? What would you say if he fails to score or have an impact for the rest of his contract with the Toon? Would he still be a success.
FatJanMolby
Then you have poor judgement Chicken
=================
Thats your opinion. To be fair, my judgements on Henderson would certainly see me within the majority at the moment. I might be proved wrong, who knows? but my opinion is hardly isolated is it?
"There'sOnlyOneReds, your problem is you just cant handle contructive criticism. If you dont agree with a poster you just shout "WUM" & throw insults about. Its a bit playground to be honest, fella."
That didn't answer my question. I'll try again. So what you're saying is, forget potential, it's only the present which should be judged? Can you please confirm?
I will point back to an early point that at his age you judge on potential and yes from what I have seen I think he can be judged a success because he will be a great player. I can't forget potential because that is what he will be judged on.
Bale was once slated but everybody said he has great potential and that he would be a good player and they were right.
Young players should be judged on what they can bring to the club in the future and Henderson getting first team experience will only help him grow as a player much faster.
Last night he played the ball to Suarez to start the 2nd goal, against Chelsea he played the ball to Bellamy to help set up the first, he sent downing straight through against Man City, it is obvious that he has an eye for a pass and I believe that he is a good signing.
Sign in if you want to comment
Henderson; flop or not?
Page 2 of 3
posted on 14/3/12
I wouldn't say a flop, just vastly over priced. If you'd got him for £1m he's a steal
posted on 14/3/12
Henderson, i think is harder to judge, simply because he's playing, imo, out of position on the flank. His attributes are his engine and shot passing ability, suited to a CM position.
He is not able to take people on, or whip a cross in, it's just not his game.
The others (Adam, Carroll, Downing) have all had time in their natural positions and for 90% of the time have been failures.
But in any case, i would expect more for £16m such as a bit of versatility.
posted on 14/3/12
It's been said many times before but Henderson has performed well. He hasn't been outstanding but he has did well for a 21 year old player. He is captain of the England 21 team and has a lot of potential. If you look at his first few games when he was brimming with confidence, you'll see a player that was bursting forward and getting shots in. He hasn't been allowed this role but that will come later, when he has a couple more years under his belt.
Henderson will justify his 16m price tag, of that I have no doubt.
posted on 14/3/12
comment by redconn > (U5676)
wow good post Elvis
--------------------------------
How dare you sound so surprised?
posted on 14/3/12
Ham Shankly,
I'm not saying that my/our judgement of a player over 7 months will determine how good they will be in the long term. I do feel, however, as fans, its a fair debate to have about any player that has graced our league for this period of time.
I dont have a set period in my head, ie. i couldn't say, yes its fair to judge on 7 months but not 5, i just think at this point in the season we can all be grown up & say what we think without it being too ridiculous.
There are many examples we can use on both sides of the coin, ones that have impressed (Demab Ba is another one) & others who have struggled (De Gea). Nothing is to say these wont prove us wrong, neither do i think its too hasty to pass comment at this stage.
posted on 14/3/12
Fact is you cant judge a 21 year old over 21 years lol.
We cant judge Henderson now. He's doing better than almost all other English players his age by getting to start all the time. He hasn't been exemplary but also he's not getting run over by the opposition as alot of others his age would.
posted on 14/3/12
Elvis
Krul has been at Newcastle since 2006.
================
I didnt refer to his time at Newcastle, just his time in the Prem (which is 7 months). Hence the comparison.
posted on 14/3/12
comment by Chicken (on a Basketball) ©™ (U1043)
posted 1 minute ago
Elvis
Krul has been at Newcastle since 2006.
================
I didnt refer to his time at Newcastle, just his time in the Prem (which is 7 months). Hence the comparison.
------------------------------------
What you refer to is a load of nonsense, much like every other post you make on Liverpool related topics. You just can't resist. You just can't fill your little life, without it, can you? So sad.
posted on 14/3/12
comment by Chicken (on a Basketball) ©™ (U1043)
I didnt refer to his time at Newcastle, just his time in the Prem (which is 7 months). Hence the comparison.
---------------------------------------
The point being that he has had time to settle. Henderson has moved to one of the two biggest clubs in the country for a big fee at 21 years of age. Taking that into consideration he has done ok. Once he settles in a bit more he will be fine.
posted on 14/3/12
I know what you're saying but i still feel 7 months is a decent amount of time for us to make an initial judgement.
---------------------
We have amade a judgment, and we are confident that he will be a very good footballer. He hasn;t set the world alight in the last 7 months, but we've seen enough to suggest that he will become very good, espcically once he is reguallry played in his favoured position.
All you see is that he cost 16m and he has one goal and one assist, which means he must be bad. What we see watching him game after game, is that he hasn't played that well but he has a lot of potential.
posted on 14/3/12
Kop in Kenya
Fact is you cant judge a 21 year old
=====================
Why not? Surely the term "judgement" isn't age specific.
If a player looks good or bad, we should be able to pass fair comment. If Henderson had won MotM 20 times this season, scorred 20+ goals & was first choice for England at the Euros, would you claim that its too early to judge?
Of course not. You dont want anyone passing judgement because you know the comments are more likely to be negative at this stage. With respect, you have to take the rough with the smooth.
posted on 14/3/12
FatJanMolby
All you see is that he cost 16m and he has one goal and one assist
===================
Not at all. I judge on all round performance.
There'sOnlyOneReds,
I wondered how long it would be until someone chucked in a WUM accusation, in what has been a very reasonable debate (so far).
Shame on you There'sOnlyOneReds, its members like you that spoil good debates on these boards.
posted on 14/3/12
Why not? Surely the term "judgement" isn't age specific.
-----------------------------------------------
No its not but the way you judge is, in Henderson we can see that he has the potential and that with a little more confidence he could be a great player, when he has actually played in the middle you can see his vision and some of his passes have completely broken up defences.
Now if we had bought him when he was like 28 we could judge him as a player that would never be good enough.
posted on 14/3/12
What difference would it make if he was flying but the rest of the team are cack? We have around 9 new first team players (almost a whole team) trying to gel. I think its quite daft to single out Henderson for criticism or negative judgment unless your judging the entire squad.
posted on 14/3/12
comment by Chicken (on a Basketball) ©™ (U1043)
posted 11 seconds ago
FatJanMolby
All you see is that he cost 16m and he has one goal and one assist
===================
Not at all. I judge on all round performance.
There'sOnlyOneReds,
I wondered how long it would be until someone chucked in a WUM accusation, in what has been a very reasonable debate (so far).
Shame on you There'sOnlyOneReds, its members like you that spoil good debates on these boards.
-------------------------
It's not exactly an accusation though is it? You've done your best throughout your time on here to confirm it as fact. I do hope you're proud of this achievement and it keeps you happy in cold winters.
However you're still talking kack.
If a player scores twenty etc etc, then it is without doubt he has performed, at 21. If he doesn't play great but average ans shows he has potential, then it shows he has the potential to play great. If he shows neither potential or ability in the present then it is obvious he hasn't the potential to be great.
What has been repeated throughout the article is that Henderson is a young player with huge potential and trying to pose opposition to that with silly logic of a player doing well at 21 is a very very poor attempt. It's not you must do better but you will do better, afterall you couldn't do any worse, or could you? Well it's you, so yes, yes you could, go!
posted on 14/3/12
If Henderson had scored twenty and had twenty assists am sure Chicken and Co would be on here telling us that we are using him too much at a young age and will burn him out ala michael Owen...... You just cant win.....
posted on 14/3/12
Geodude,
Again, i'm posting with sincerity, not from an anti-Liverpool (mainly because i'm not) or a WUM point of view.
Take Henderson out of the equation & just assume we're debating in general.
I dont like the using the word "potential" in a debate about current judgement. For example: Gio Dos Santos was meant to have "potential" but this has never materialised. There are numerous other examples too - you can probably think of others in your own club too that failed to cut the mustard.
I can appreciate you being slightly on the defensive (who isn't?), not only are you passionate about your club but i'm guessing you are fed up with the stick some of your players have received this season - thats natural.
Forget that you signed him, forget the price tag, has Henderson shown enough so far to be judged a success? I dont believe he has as it stands. That is all. Nothing more.
posted on 14/3/12
Not at all. I judge on all round performance.
------
Then you have poor judgement Chicken
posted on 14/3/12
comment by Chicken (on a Basketball) ©™ (U1043)
posted 8 seconds ago
Geodude,
Again, i'm posting with sincerity, not from an anti-Liverpool (mainly because i'm not) or a WUM point of view.
Take Henderson out of the equation & just assume we're debating in general.
I dont like the using the word "potential" in a debate about current judgement. For example: Gio Dos Santos was meant to have "potential" but this has never materialised. There are numerous other examples too - you can probably think of others in your own club too that failed to cut the mustard.
I can appreciate you being slightly on the defensive (who isn't?), not only are you passionate about your club but i'm guessing you are fed up with the stick some of your players have received this season - thats natural.
Forget that you signed him, forget the price tag, has Henderson shown enough so far to be judged a success? I dont believe he has as it stands. That is all. Nothing more.
----------------------------------------
So what you're saying is, forget potential, it's only the present which should be judged? Can you please confirm?
posted on 14/3/12
Check out the Skrtel article a few articles up. This guy got more stick than Henderson is getting at an older age and with more experience. He's "imperious" now......
posted on 14/3/12
Kop in Kenya
Chicken and Co would be on here telling us that we are using him too much at a young age and will burn him out ala michael Owen......
=====================
Thats a bit unfair. This article is about Henderson & i have been honest about it. I'm not sure what you want from a debating site. Other than to hail him as the next Emlyn Hughes, its unlikely i'm going to get anything but negative comments about my postings.
There'sOnlyOneReds, your problem is you just cant handle contructive criticism. If you dont agree with a poster you just shout "WUM" & throw insults about. Its a bit playground to be honest, fella.
posted on 14/3/12
Chicken
Demba ba can be said to be a success right? What would you say if he fails to score or have an impact for the rest of his contract with the Toon? Would he still be a success.
posted on 14/3/12
FatJanMolby
Then you have poor judgement Chicken
=================
Thats your opinion. To be fair, my judgements on Henderson would certainly see me within the majority at the moment. I might be proved wrong, who knows? but my opinion is hardly isolated is it?
posted on 14/3/12
"There'sOnlyOneReds, your problem is you just cant handle contructive criticism. If you dont agree with a poster you just shout "WUM" & throw insults about. Its a bit playground to be honest, fella."
That didn't answer my question. I'll try again. So what you're saying is, forget potential, it's only the present which should be judged? Can you please confirm?
posted on 14/3/12
I will point back to an early point that at his age you judge on potential and yes from what I have seen I think he can be judged a success because he will be a great player. I can't forget potential because that is what he will be judged on.
Bale was once slated but everybody said he has great potential and that he would be a good player and they were right.
Young players should be judged on what they can bring to the club in the future and Henderson getting first team experience will only help him grow as a player much faster.
Last night he played the ball to Suarez to start the 2nd goal, against Chelsea he played the ball to Bellamy to help set up the first, he sent downing straight through against Man City, it is obvious that he has an eye for a pass and I believe that he is a good signing.
Page 2 of 3