Admins - could you multi-board please?
There's an interesting website that collects top flight football data from around the world (http://www.rsssf.com/tablese/engalltime.html).
For those who think football history started in '92 with the Premier League or that history is only measured by the size of your trophy haul, here's what English football history really looks like with the powerhouses of the English game shown in a top 10 from the beginning of the English league in 1888/89 through to the end of the 2011/12 season.
S= Seasons in the top division
G= Games played in top divison
W= Games won in top division
Pts= 2 pts for a win (I've also calculated the table with 3 pts for a win and the order remains exactly the same)
Top Level - All-Time Table 1888/89-2011/12
1 Liverpool S=97 G=3868 W=1787 Pts=4537
2 Everton S=109 G=4252 W=1732 Pts=4521
3 Arsenal S=95 G=3868 W=1736 Pts=4473
4 Man Utd S=87 G=3512 W=1662 Pts=4191
5 Aston Villa S=101 G=3918 W=1610 Pts=4153
6 Man City S=83 G=3354 W=1272 Pts=3372
7 Newcastle S=81 G=3236 W=1268 Pts=3328
8 Spurs S=77 G=3128 W=1258 Pts=3283
9 Chelsea S=77 G=3132 W=1229 Pts=3276
10Sunderland S=81 G=3150 W=1219 Pts=3163
For fans of the clubs not on this list use the link to find the all-time table for all 64 clubs who have ever been in the English top flight.
English football history (the real deal)
posted on 13/9/12
comment by Bell-CTID (U3991) posted 54 minutes ago
"As a City fan I'm tired of being preached to numerous Man Utd 'followers' that City have no 'history' and Utd are, and have always been, the best team in England."
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Sound like a bunch of school kids there Belly. Teams can't create history on their own; it's all interactive. Those who know their history will know that while United won the European Cup in 1968 it was City who pipped them to the title on the last day of the season. Now that's history, that's a turn of events, not who's the bestest club!
As a United fan I've been fortunate enough to find out that success is more fulfilling when one has experienced failures; therefore my enjoyment has been enhanced by the triumphs of others from time to time; and that's all part of the rich history which the football fan experience is built upon!
posted on 13/9/12
comment by Lucas The Destroyer - Wolf Pack (U11770) posted 1 hour, 5 minutes ago
"Cardiff isn't in England"
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Are you trying to be clever, pedantic, or just damn dumb?!
posted on 13/9/12
Is the English Football Museum still in Preston?
posted on 13/9/12
Lambsy,
thanks - that's a fine balanced view. Like most things in life you have to have experienced the heartaches to appreciate the highs - and you've been through plenty of both supporting Utd from the 70s.
I certainly don't begrudge Utd their 'recent' success and a few more balanced views of Utd fans lke yourself are very welcome.
posted on 13/9/12
Bell :
The Poool empire lasted about 20 yrs too (70s to 1991) .
One interesting you see is that the "Sky 4" has killed top 4 competition. Last season was probably the best in ages for the fight all top 4 places.
When you look at the league tables in the 80s, even though you had the Poool empire, twas not the same old clubs as shoe-ins for the other 3 places every yr. We need some of that again.
posted on 13/9/12
Yeah may be because there were not any incentives to finish in top4. Thanks to them English teams were banned. From Europe as well
posted on 13/9/12
Bell, I don't begrudge City winning the title either. Oh yes it hurt but not because it was our local rivals, but because it wasn't United and it had been so close. To have something ripped from one's grasp like that makes it worse.
But I look on the bright side, a bunch of different fans have been able experience the joy I've had over the years, I can imagine how deliriously happy they must have been on that closing day of the season, and how they've felt since, and I'm happy for them, though I could do without hearing snippets of the commentary on radio and TV all the time. Ouch!
posted on 13/9/12
Lambsy,
I know exactly what you mean.
The year before all I ever saw on the TV was that ****ing Rooney overhead kick - drove me to distraction!
posted on 13/9/12
RDBD,
good point about Liverpool in the 70s & 80s - we'll let the data show how dominant they were then versus how dominant Utd have been in the PL years.
As for (un)predictablility of the 'also rans', there's been some study of the reason why there's been a near-monopoly by the Sky4 for a good part of the PL (thankfully now being challenged) and I'm afraid it's down to money again.
The book I referred to above, "Pay As You Play: The True Price of Success in the Premier League Era" shows resoundingly using financial data (1st XI and squad costs) and other stats that the spending of the old Sky4 was a very high multiple compared with the spending of the rest of the PL clubs.
For example (and very roughly), if the cost of your starting 1st XI averaged over a season is around £27m then you'll get around 39 pts
If it's around £37m then you'll get around 49 pts
£43m then about 59 pts
£76m then about 69 pts
£103m then about 79 pts
£142m then about 89 pts
£180+ then 90+ points
There are of course exceptions to this generality (two obvious examples being Allerdyce who has managed clubs to PL safety several times with much cheaper 1st XIs and Newcastle who have spent more than these averages and not achieved the points) but in the main, that money buys you those points!
Those are 2010 figures and the £ per pts is even higher now.
posted on 13/9/12
my bad, £180m+