Giroud or Podolski - who would you keep?

Giroud is terrible.

ABG

You're only humiliating yourself. You're one of those who doesn't actually say anything to back up the point he's making, just insults people who poke holes in what you've said. Still waiting for you to name me this striker who bangs in 30 a season in front of a midfield that can't defend.

Since you are the one saying Giroud is rubbish because he can't do that, then the least you should be able to do is name a handful of strikers whom you know scored 30 in the EPL playing in front of a defensively inept midfield. Shouldn't be too hard to do if you are correct and Giroud is so rubbish.

And no RVP is no good because he had Song cleaning up the midfield behind him.

Giroud versus top seven: 24 appearances, 3 goals (zero away), 5.9% conversion rate (down 12.4% v rest of PL), 0/19 clear-cut chances scored.
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Still struggling to understand the fact he has scored 3 times, but none of those were 'clear cut chances', yet he had 19 clearer cut chances than those 3 goals.

Who has decided which of his chances are clear cut and which are not?

The stat, I guess I am saying, is dubious at best.

Maybe a link to the 3 goals and the 19 clear cut chances?

Chris H

My argument is simply that Giroud could/would perform better and score more goals if we were more defensively sound in midfield. Not rocket science, any fool knows that any striker will perform better if his midfield can keep the ball well.

Any fool accept ABG that is. This all began because he needed it explained to him how a midfield constantly losing the ball forcing their striker to scramble back and defend, had anything to do with a stiker's scoring rate.

It is also only fair to point out that in 6 fixtures against last seasons top 4 Luis Suarez has scored just once (0 at home) with a conversion rate of 2.2% and 0/15 clear cut chances scored.


Stats

DJ

He also failed to noticed that every striker in the league is likely to have a conversion rate considerably lower against the top seven clubs. I mean correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that lower conversion rate the reason those teams are the top 7...because the opposition tends not to score as many against them as it does the teams below them??

It is also only fair to point out that in 6 fixtures against last seasons top 4 Luis Suarez has scored just once (0 at home) with a conversion rate of 2.2% and 0/15 clear cut chances scored.


Stats

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There you have it. The stats prove it. Saurez is rubbish as well

WengersBodyguard2

You have a couple issues in you analysis in my opinion. First there is a difference between possession and sound midfield. Our midfield is very good at possessing the ball. The problem we have with possession is not the midfield its Giroud's lack of first touch and control. The ball continuously bounces of him and he rarely creates space between himself and his marker to hold the ball up. The out ball is generally to Giroud and he is mostly unable to hold the ball up. Thats why he performs better at home and especially against poorer teams because they shrink back onto their own defense allowing Giroud more space to perform his flicks. Away from home his lack of skill is very exposed. His poor performances against the better defenses only affirms this.

We do have an issue of getting counter attacked and thats down to lack of pace with Arteta/Flamini. However Giroud is just as slow and because of his higher starting position he is never expected to defend a counter attack. I am not sure how you have formed your impression that Giroud is required to defend. Maybe you are confusing our tactic of closing down space (closing down goalkeepers etc) to prevent counter attacks from starting because we are playing a high line. However you have to understand that we play a high line specifically because Giroud lacks pace and so we cannot play counter attack ourselves and are forced to compress space in opposing half. Thats why we have been destroyed in away games by counter attack teams likes Everton, City, Chelsea and Liverpool.

Giroud has been one of the worst strikers that in my opinion has ever played for Arsenal. In my opinion he ranks along side Lee Chapman. We had low goal scorers in the past like smudger smith and big Niall Quinn. But they had great first touch were usually able to hold the ball up to allow our midfield to retain possession. Giroud just doesn't do that. You only have too look at his heat maps and our lack of build up play in away games to see why that is happening.

Jenius

Since when was scoring 20 in the Prem "Low scoring" though? People suddenly talk about 30 goal seasons like they're common-place in the EPL among any half-decent striker. And the argument against Giroud IMO is that he's cr.ap because he hasn't scored 30 and we have to have someone that can score 30 to win the title.

I see what you're saying and have entertained your argument before, as you have mine about the midfield. I got slightly side-tracked by ABG. And was simply making the point thatfor instance Giroud is often crossing the ball in because we've lost it in midfield and he's had to go out wide after Walcott or Podolski has had to scramble in. I don't think it's his skill level as such, just that the way he plays in this side, to get the best from him, we can't be scrambling at goal off the back foot, which we very often are/have been since he arrived due to poor ball retention and a failure to recover the ball quickly when it's lost.

I'm simply making the point thatI feel, due to it's frailty defensively, our sides ability to attack has been below par for both the seasons Giroud has been at the club. I think he's being made a scapegoat for others'failings and that he at least needs to be given the same conditions to work with as RVP before he's condemned for not doing as well. Get the constant CDM presence, get us consistently playing "Arsenal" football all season (because we've been irratic at that for two years now) and Giroud will get the 30 goals. Not that he'll need 30 with us playing like we really can.

WengersBodyguard2

I am actually not criticizing his goal output as much (though his misses have been below the standard required at this level imo). If you look at the quality of our midfield Santi, Ozil creators, Ramsey box to box, Theo as the pace. I think its the best in the country. It does lack a holding mopper upper but thats it in my opinion.The midfield is the reason why we have been top for so many weeks this season and the striker is the reason why I believe we have not won the league. In fact close to losing top 4. And it infuriates me that Liverpool are going to do what we should have done this season.

We have a big problem in our defense in that we have players like Mertesacker and Arteta who are slow and really geared to a counter attack team. Thats actually the secret to playing football against the top teams.And why Liverpool are going to win the league. To play counter attack however you need fast strikers. Giroud is almost a throw back to a time long gone. He maybe perfectly suited to a slower league like France but not a top league. And the fact he is too slow to counter is the reason why we push our defenders up to create a high line. That high line is very vulnerable to us getting countered ourselves. City, Liverpool, etc

Giroud plays the pivot at Arsenal. The role played by RVP. It requires Giroud to go wide in order to play the passes through for midfield runners. He has done that reasonably and although you suggest that as negative, I actually believe its a consequence of our style. The problem is that we cannot change play with Giroud and without Giroud holding the ball up or threatening on the counter the only we can threaten is dominate play in the opposing half by pushing up our defenders. So Giroud's style makes us vulnerable to the counter attack. Everton, Southampton, Swansea have shown the lower teams how to play us. I think we can just abt survive to the top 4 this season (because of Everton's fixtures) but if Giroud stays as our striker imo we will be mid table next season even with a superlative midfield.