Interesting article on the problems facing United going forward: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/e1e6e5d8-ca14-11e3-ac05-00144feabdc0.html#axzz301la57Ja
"Most managers have relatively little influence on their teams’ results, argues Stefan Szymanski, economics professor at the University of Michigan and my co-author for our book Soccernomics. Rather, the key determinant of a club’s league position is its wage bill. Prof Szymanski shows that in the English and Italian top divisions, averaged over a period of 10 years, the correlation between wage bill and league position is about 90 per cent. In other words, if you can afford good players, they will win matches. Managers matter much less. Prof Szymanski reckons that only about 10 per cent of managers consistently overachieve relative to their wage bills. Ferguson was the UK’s foremost overachiever – but Moyes too was among that elite 10 per cent during his Everton years.
"The bigger problem for any new manager is that United’s golden age may be over. From 2008 through to 2011, the club enjoyed statistically its best period: three English titles and three Champions League finals, one of which was won. Those days aren’t coming back, not even if the Glazers meet expectations by spending close to £200m on new players this summer. Given the inflation at the top end of the transfer market, and United’s need for several world-class players, even £200m might not be enough to match Chelsea or Manchester City. Ferguson could compete with them despite United’s lower spending, but then Ferguson was an almost unmatched overachiever.
"Money buys success in football and several clubs now have more money than United. From 1997 through 2004, United topped the consultancy Deloitte’s “rich list" of European football clubs ranked by revenues. In 2012-13, United dropped out of the top three for the first time since Deloitte began compiling the list. Real Madrid, Barcelona and Bayern Munich now have higher revenues. Moreover, Chelsea, Manchester City and Paris Saint-Germain have oil-rich owners who pump money in rather than sucking it out. By the logic of the market that means there are six clubs in Europe more likely to win the Champions League than United. In the domestic league, by the same logic, the club’s natural position is now third behind Chelsea and Manchester City. (Less wealthy Liverpool will probably win this season’s Premier League, but their overachievement is probably unique in recent English history.)"
Thoughts?
My take is that they seem to think that Moyes - being an "overachiever" in the wage bill/ success relationship should have stayed, and that in order to get back to the top we need to either spend a great deal more or employ a überoverachiever. Personally, I'm not entirely sure the wage bill/success relationship is causal. In an industry in which fine margins determine titles, managers are clearly important. I'm not sure why they have a view on Van Gaal if results are predetermined unless it's with the intention to imply that he won't last very long because of his caustic reputation.
"United's problem is money not manager"
posted on 27/4/14
You telling me if we had swapped managers with Liverpool this season, the two clubs would be in the same respective positions?
posted on 27/4/14
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posted on 27/4/14
Well yes, there is a general correlation between league position and wage bill - everyone knows that.
But at the top of the PL where margins are fine, managers make a huge, huge difference. Would Wenger have won today at Anfield with that Chelsea team? Probably not.
posted on 27/4/14
comment by -bloodred- (U1222)
posted 59 seconds ago
Well yes, there is a general correlation between league position and wage bill - everyone knows that.
But at the top of the PL where margins are fine, managers make a huge, huge difference. Would Wenger have won today at Anfield with that Chelsea team? Probably not.
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Definitely not.
posted on 27/4/14
Wenger's won at anfield plenty of times. With worse players than Chelsea put out today against a better Liverpool sides.
posted on 27/4/14
I wonder if this guy took qpr and Fulham into his wage bill to success relationship?
Did we top the wage table this year?
posted on 28/4/14
I actually found Soccernomics to be an extremely interesting and enlightening analysis of football in general, but that's the problem, it generalises.
While their research makes a strong case that wages are the best predictor of league form, there are strict limits to their findings.
They compare wage bills with league positions to identify the best managers, which is a fair way to identify them, but they don't take into account the fact that managers have styles, strengths and weaknesses (rightly so, as they would never be able to accurately model the game to that sort of detail).
For this reason, the book helps to explain the big picture, where data samples are large enough to overcome the lack of predictability in football, but is very shaky when it comes to making specific predictions.
As for the whole "players not trying argument" I am undecided. Obviously no player makes a mistake on purpose, but if they don't agree with the manager's tactics and think he is incompetent, then they are likely to pay less attention to them, meaning that any attempt by a manager to adopt a certain style is hamstrung.
I also think that players are probably less likely to track back and work for the team when they are playing under a manager that they don't respect.
posted on 28/4/14
"My mistake, didn't read it properly. Still think the findings are a load of rubbish though. Mancini should of won the title every year but he was useless."
He shouldn't though, he should have finished in the top two when he did and top three when he did to fit to their findings. You need to read the book really, it's general point is right. As rusty says, it can't be used for specific predictions, but at the same time it never professes it can be.
Pay as you play, which takes into account squad value as well as wages, is better for me though.
posted on 28/4/14
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posted on 28/4/14
Managers do not affect results? Enter David Moyes