So as we've witnessed his second rate management first hand we are all pretty much agreed Roy is not the man for the England job in the long or even medium term.
Over two years in and nothing has improved, if anything performances have deteriorated. We were told that Roy would be able to develop the younger players, the old guard would no longer be relied upon and that he would move the national team forward. Well some of the old guard have gone, by their own choice only, and even then he tried to persuade them otherwise. Performances have been worse. Euro 2012 was a gimme. He took over last minute and it would have been harsh to judge him on that. As it turns out we did much better than in the finals he was responsible for.
It can be argued that we are in some sort of transition, with the older players moving on and younger players being blooded. But my problem is there is NO sign of any improvement in the style of play. The younger players have come in because he has had no other choice. He has not done anything pro active (with the exception of bringing Shaw instead of Cole) to include the younger players. Performances are AT BEST the same as before. Even if the team were not winning but looked like they were trying to play he could be forgiven as the team builds. We have seen it with Liverpool, were even when it doesnt pay off you can see the vision and the end goal, you can see the team moving, overall, forward in terms of performances. I see absolutely none of the with England.
Who comes in though? There really arent many if any decent candidates to replace him. Not English ones anyway.
Redknapp? Yes look at the wonderful waves he is making at QPR. He may get England playing slightly better football but Harry the great entertainer was always more of a media myth than fact. His style of football would undoubtedly be better than the current rubbish, but he isnt going to shake things up to the necessary point really is he?
Allardyce? God no. Just no. We think Roy has England playing bad football. He would probably be less afraid to drop reputations but only because they are too keen to play football rather than lump it up to the big man uop front.
More Roy? We really do risk not qualifying under this man. I fear for tonights result and I wouldnt fancy us in a play off.
An inexperienced manager? Sean Dyche is making waves at Burnley, as is Gary Monk at Swansea. They might not be the answer but I dont think they could do any worse. It may turn out that at this early stage in their careers they wouldnt want to have that blot on their CV.
Other shouts? Germany and Holland have had success appointing someone with little experience, but a well respected player. Shearer? Neville?
Hodgson out
posted on 8/9/14
Comment Deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 8/9/14
I read recently that one of the reasons van Gaal fell out with the hierarchy at Bayern (Beckenbauer, Heynckes, etc) was that he refused to adhere to the 'national philosophy' in his style of play, and stuck to his own.
The revealing thing about this is that such a thing should exist....that German club managers would conform to a style of play so that their internationals will be familiar and comfortable with it when they are called up to the national team. (That way, the disadvantage that they only have a week or two to prepare is mitigated).
I don't know how influential this is, (or whether it's entirely true), but the notable advantage Germany had in the last WC was that they played as a team.
I think this kind of conformity is inconceivable in England....it is just not in the British mentality...can you imagine what Tonly Pulis would say if he was told to conform to a 'national philosophy'?
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I see your point. It would be unrealistic to expect all clubs to adhere to a national philosophy.
That being said, virtually every grassroots team plays 4-4-2. We already have a national philosophy, it's just outdated and ineffective.
If we were to have this new FA comittee come out and say "This is how we want the England team to play"and then offer training courses for grassroots coaches in that philospohpy, and promote it from the time kids are 6 or 7, by the time that generation is playing first team football, they will know how to play it.
I think, realistically, this isn't a short term fix. Chaging the manager hasn't worked in the past, and won't work now.
the whole national setup needs some fundamental changes. The Germans did it, and won a World Cup inside of 15 years.
That's what this FA comission thing has been set up to do, but so far there seems very little movement.
The way I look at it, the national side is a shambles at the moment. Is doing something drastically different (a team of selectors and a team of coaches) really going to make it any worse? If we lose tonight, I think it's fair to say we've hit rock bottom, and it's Hail Mary time at this point.
posted on 8/9/14
the whole national setup needs some fundamental changes. The Germans did it, and won a World Cup inside of 15 years.
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Yes, they did. But they are able to get a kind of conformity from the clubs which I think is inconceivable in Britain.
I agree that is more fundamental problem than just who the manager is, or the number of foreign players, but I think we'd have to find our own way of doing it, because most of the most talented kids will be coached at clubs, who won't conform to a common philosophy).
I take your point about some kind of general conformity in the way kids are coachhed, though....though. But before we can address that, we have to address the fact that we have far fewer youth coaches than most of the other European countries in the first place.
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That's what this FA comission thing has been set up to do, but so far there seems very little movement.
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I don't have a lot of faith in that.
How much coaching experience do Danny Mills and Rio Ferdinand have between them? I don't understand the basis on which they've been elected to it.
posted on 8/9/14
I think the "golden generation" actually did okay but went out on penalties at key stages. Those quarters become sem-finals and the semi finals finals. I do think we were unlucky on this point.
With regards to Roy it beggars belief he is still setting up with a 4-4-2 (especially as he flirted with a 4-2-3-1 in the WC - I thought the actual performances were okay). It's maddening.
The one thing this England side has that many other foriegn sides do not is genuine pace front to back. Now I don't want to get all Ricardo Lux on this but I do feel the team could be managed better. Do we make enough of the pace and power in the side available? Are we creating swift counter attacks? Do we move the ball quickly enough?
With regards to philosophy I don't think Chile, Switzerland and Costa Rica will have a National code to adhere to at club level but they do play as a team or have when I have seen them.
We looked instantly better when we switched to a diamond against Norway and that was with bringing Fabien Delph on.
They are mangement issues for me.
Essentially though none of this England team team tonight can pass the ball long and short and that is not Roys fault.
posted on 8/9/14
talksrubbish you old chancer. you owe me a forfeit still..
posted on 8/9/14
I don't have a lot of faith in that.
How much coaching experience do Danny Mills and Rio Ferdinand have between them? I don't understand the basis on which they've been elected to it.
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I completely agree with that. The whole thing seems to be based on big names and, more recently, ticking minority boxes.
It's made up of people who haven't been relevant at the top level for a long time. Glen Hoddle who has been out of the game for almost a decade. Howard Wilkinson who has proven time and again he's a dinosaur akin to Hodgson and nowhere near progressive enough. Danny Mills who was never up to much as a player, and has dropped off the footballing radar previous to this commission. Some player from Chesterfield, Dario Gradi from Crewe, who's, despite their reputation for youth development, last Academy graduate to make the England team was Danny Murphy.
It's hardly a stellar group. The ask is of course, made more difficult given the cushy jobs at Sky and BT available to retiring pros meaning that the top talent doesn't necessarily go into management, meaning a smaller pool of potential candidates.
But I think it shows how just changing the manager is the tip of the iceberg. We need a better level of footballing education in this country overall. From Grassroots coaches obtaining UEFA licences through to ageing pros being encouraged to undertake their badges while still in the game. We need to move away from this idea of having either "football people" or "business people" at the top of the FA, and start grooming candidates earlier in their playing careers and encouraging extra curricular learning in business to allow footballers to step into the business side of the FA after their careers.
As much as I don't like Roy, I don't really see the point of firing him and paying him a big chunk of money, without having any real plan in place beyond appointing the current flavour of the month English manager.
posted on 8/9/14
ticking minority boxes
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Well Danny Mills is bald I guess.
I may be mistaken but I think there is a law here that does not exist in Spain which limits the amount of time an U16 can train per day (1.5 hours I think). The weather does not help here either.
The FA are making changes such as enforcing smaller pitches (which means the bigger kids don't have an advantage and smaller spaces to ensure more technical play).
I do think England is too hung up on football though as if there was a decathlon of sports from motor racingto to athletics to boxing to Rugby and so on England would pretty easily beat the rest of the world. We're actually very good at sport all things considered.
posted on 8/9/14
just an idea, but how about if the coaches at the academies took all the English kids to the England coaching centre, for two days every week.
all the kids can get some time to play football with the other clubs kids, not just in their own age group, but can include the groups above and below as well.
not saying it'll work, but given time, once a youngster is breaking into the full England squad, at least there'll be a good chance he's already regularly played with a large number of the squad, and so can slot in a lot easier. he'll know what/where they're expecting and they'll know what/where he's likely to do anything/make a run etc.
far too often the national team play like a group of strangers, and youngsters being bought in to cover injuries are just increasing that problem.
I know if not explained it very well, but i'm sure you'll get the idea.
posted on 8/9/14
Now now mito you know I hang on your every word!
posted on 8/9/14
you've been hanging a while then!