Great article on the Arseblog site, looking at the way in which we have lined up so far this season.
http://arseblog.com/2014/10/the-4-1-4-1-on-arsenals-new-formation/
When I think of 4-1-4-1, to be honest I think of that Moyes team that did so well in 2004-05. Incidentally, Mikel Arteta was in the 'trio' that made that team, along with the oh-so-effective Tim Cahill, and the extremely solid man at the base in Lee Carsley. Of course, they played a much more functionable football- Leon Osman, Kevin Kilbane and James McFadden were often the wide men- yet it was such a clear system in which to lay your team out.
Bayern and the current Germany team is the next teams to stick out to me who use the formation. The key difference between those two is that Bayern under Guardiola and Heynkes played with clear wide men and a clear sitting midfielder. Germany often played a combination of Schweinsteiger, Kroos, Khedira and Lahm in the midfield, none of them being a clear sitter, and Christoph Kramer, who is perceived as a holder, ended up bombing on in his brief cameos! Of course, Ozil played wide in the German system, and we must assume Wenger took something from the German side there to the Arsenal team this year.
All three of these teams were successful in using this rough system. That's of course not the sole reason for that, especially considering the quality of some of the personnel listed. Yet these teams all benefited from a clear format of which to play with.
I do feel, especially with Ozil not in the team atm, that this is ample opportunity to persist with and make this system work for us. For example, playing Jack and Rambo in front of Arteta or Flamini, just allows them to play as central midfielders, and play a very natural game to them. The problem of course is that the '4' has been too cavalier so far, and we have been exposed. However, we do have diligent players who play in the wide positions, and as long as we instil into the likes of Sanchez, Ox, Theo, Gnabry, Santi, Campbell and Poldi (especially you Lukas) that they need to help out their full back when we lose and are without the ball. The problem is of course is that the lone striker can get isolated. However, we have seen Welbeck thrives in the transitional plays, and can go in behind or hold it up. Sanogo seems to have the capability (albeit a raw one) to come to the ball or go behind, and we know when Giroud comes back that 99% of the time we have a guy who can hold the ball and allow those 4 to support him.
I think the best point that that article above makes is that the formation allows us to spread the pitch, without really isolating anyone, and allows us to get high up the pitch. The KEY really though, is that making sure the space in behind the two central midfielders, or the space in front of the defence, is managed effectively, and of course, this means an improvement in performances by Arteta and Flamini. Whatever we say about them, regardless of whether we can improve on them; their performances can improve and will improve.
All I am saying is, I completely and understand a lack of faith in a team and manager which has seemingly not fulfilled on its promise or potential for a long time. Yet, that doesn't mean one should write off a system that hasn't clicked after 12 or so games. It deserves more time. Patience.
4-1-4-1 is Not a Satanic Invention
posted on 21/10/14
Comment Deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 21/10/14
Ramsey hasn't been crap because of the system. That is a moronic statement. And Ozil played well for Germany on the left in a 4-1-4-1.
posted on 21/10/14
comment by Wengerite (U6219)
posted 25 minutes ago
Ramsey hasn't been crap because of the system. That is a moronic statement. And Ozil played well for Germany on the left in a 4-1-4-1.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He clearly has. He's got more creative responsibility and said himself he likes having a guy ahead of him.
posted on 21/10/14
I would say Ramsey and Wilshere are better breaking from deeper in the 2 of a 4-2-3-1 formation, but not if they are both deep together which is just a bit scary defensively. I think if Ramsey was being played here week in week out we would be seeing better performances from him. Wenger seems to just want to play players out if position and I disagree with anyone who says Ramsey isn't playing poorly because of the system - he is imo, and people like Alexis saying its moronic need to learn to understand the subtleties of the game more.
4-1-4-1 might work if we had a big strong DM to really protect the back 4 but we don't so shouldn't even be considered. It also seems to stifle our play to a degree as its easy to defend against. The problem is that we don't have to players to make it work rather than there being an inherent fault in the formation.
posted on 21/10/14
^sorry, Wengerite, not Alexis
posted on 21/10/14
People are too obsessed with the title that comes with the setup : 4-2-3-1, 4-1-4-1, whatever.
In terms of how the team plays and approaches games, the starting positions is probably less than 10% of the tactical organisation, and in fact, the players for each positions will effectively dictate the shape.
The difference between the 4141 and 4231 is that instead of having a floating playmaker through the middle, it's geared towards having two much more orthodox centre mids. I believe Wenger wanted this because of Ozil's generally poor showings through the middle last year, and felt we couldn't continue to carry him for such a poor return.
I think Wenger is just determined to get Wilshere and Ramsey both into the first XI. The defeat against Villa last year probably scared him off it for a while but he clearly wants to get there at some point. For all fans and pundits go on about rotation and backup options, which are important, the best players tend to play most games, with an occasional rest, so the future of Wilshere, Ramsey & Ozil at Arsenal is pretty difficult to predict.
posted on 21/10/14
Something will have to give imo Chris. Either we sell Ozil and invest in a top striker or forward (depending on how Theo's come back, Ox and Welbz's development and Alexis' position)
OR we rotate Ramsey and Wilshere. Ozil shouldn't play out wide again.
Rumours of Ozil to City for £32m
posted on 21/10/14
Yep, hate seeing Ozil out wide, waste of everyones time.
The thing about rotation is that your top players will play most of your games, I don't think any team set up like "X plays this week, Z plays next week, X plays week after" so if Wilshere and Ramsey don't play together, it's hard to see how they will rotate in and out.
Wenger obviously still has loads of faith in JW, but then he surely won't drop Ozil to make way? Hence him playing wide.
Imagine if we'd just bid £42m for Suarez instead of the insulting £40m +£1 and instead of £42m for Ozil, could of been a very different situation now.
posted on 21/10/14
Thanks for the patronising comment... To suggest Ramsey is solely out of form because of the formation is naiive at best because it doesn't take into account a lot of factors. Ramsey and Arsenal have had a slow start to the season- he had one good game, in the Community Shield, which also happens to be the teams only standout performance (perhaps the other City match and the Gala match were encouraging).
Ramsey ofc likes to come from deep, and I get that having a number 10 in front helps out. But when you have 2 wide guys, another midfielder next you and a forward to act as your foil, there are ways to adapt your game. There is still many opportunities for Ramsey to make runs past players who are advanced of him- in many of the games Wilshere has been positioned higher up than Rambo!
posted on 22/10/14
comment by Chris H (U15205)
posted 17 hours, 16 minutes ago
Yep, hate seeing Ozil out wide, waste of everyones time.
The thing about rotation is that your top players will play most of your games, I don't think any team set up like "X plays this week, Z plays next week, X plays week after" so if Wilshere and Ramsey don't play together, it's hard to see how they will rotate in and out.
Wenger obviously still has loads of faith in JW, but then he surely won't drop Ozil to make way? Hence him playing wide.
Imagine if we'd just bid £42m for Suarez instead of the insulting £40m +£1 and instead of £42m for Ozil, could of been a very different situation now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Probably the same situation but with Cesc instead tbh. Would be a much better team though.