Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Ramsey hasn't been crap because of the system. That is a moronic statement. And Ozil played well for Germany on the left in a 4-1-4-1.
comment by Wengerite (U6219)
posted 25 minutes ago
Ramsey hasn't been crap because of the system. That is a moronic statement. And Ozil played well for Germany on the left in a 4-1-4-1.
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He clearly has. He's got more creative responsibility and said himself he likes having a guy ahead of him.
I would say Ramsey and Wilshere are better breaking from deeper in the 2 of a 4-2-3-1 formation, but not if they are both deep together which is just a bit scary defensively. I think if Ramsey was being played here week in week out we would be seeing better performances from him. Wenger seems to just want to play players out if position and I disagree with anyone who says Ramsey isn't playing poorly because of the system - he is imo, and people like Alexis saying its moronic need to learn to understand the subtleties of the game more.
4-1-4-1 might work if we had a big strong DM to really protect the back 4 but we don't so shouldn't even be considered. It also seems to stifle our play to a degree as its easy to defend against. The problem is that we don't have to players to make it work rather than there being an inherent fault in the formation.
^sorry, Wengerite, not Alexis
People are too obsessed with the title that comes with the setup : 4-2-3-1, 4-1-4-1, whatever.
In terms of how the team plays and approaches games, the starting positions is probably less than 10% of the tactical organisation, and in fact, the players for each positions will effectively dictate the shape.
The difference between the 4141 and 4231 is that instead of having a floating playmaker through the middle, it's geared towards having two much more orthodox centre mids. I believe Wenger wanted this because of Ozil's generally poor showings through the middle last year, and felt we couldn't continue to carry him for such a poor return.
I think Wenger is just determined to get Wilshere and Ramsey both into the first XI. The defeat against Villa last year probably scared him off it for a while but he clearly wants to get there at some point. For all fans and pundits go on about rotation and backup options, which are important, the best players tend to play most games, with an occasional rest, so the future of Wilshere, Ramsey & Ozil at Arsenal is pretty difficult to predict.
Something will have to give imo Chris. Either we sell Ozil and invest in a top striker or forward (depending on how Theo's come back, Ox and Welbz's development and Alexis' position)
OR we rotate Ramsey and Wilshere. Ozil shouldn't play out wide again.
Rumours of Ozil to City for £32m
Yep, hate seeing Ozil out wide, waste of everyones time.
The thing about rotation is that your top players will play most of your games, I don't think any team set up like "X plays this week, Z plays next week, X plays week after" so if Wilshere and Ramsey don't play together, it's hard to see how they will rotate in and out.
Wenger obviously still has loads of faith in JW, but then he surely won't drop Ozil to make way? Hence him playing wide.
Imagine if we'd just bid £42m for Suarez instead of the insulting £40m +£1 and instead of £42m for Ozil, could of been a very different situation now.
Thanks for the patronising comment... To suggest Ramsey is solely out of form because of the formation is naiive at best because it doesn't take into account a lot of factors. Ramsey and Arsenal have had a slow start to the season- he had one good game, in the Community Shield, which also happens to be the teams only standout performance (perhaps the other City match and the Gala match were encouraging).
Ramsey ofc likes to come from deep, and I get that having a number 10 in front helps out. But when you have 2 wide guys, another midfielder next you and a forward to act as your foil, there are ways to adapt your game. There is still many opportunities for Ramsey to make runs past players who are advanced of him- in many of the games Wilshere has been positioned higher up than Rambo!
comment by Chris H (U15205)
posted 17 hours, 16 minutes ago
Yep, hate seeing Ozil out wide, waste of everyones time.
The thing about rotation is that your top players will play most of your games, I don't think any team set up like "X plays this week, Z plays next week, X plays week after" so if Wilshere and Ramsey don't play together, it's hard to see how they will rotate in and out.
Wenger obviously still has loads of faith in JW, but then he surely won't drop Ozil to make way? Hence him playing wide.
Imagine if we'd just bid £42m for Suarez instead of the insulting £40m +£1 and instead of £42m for Ozil, could of been a very different situation now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Probably the same situation but with Cesc instead tbh. Would be a much better team though.
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4-1-4-1 is Not a Satanic Invention
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posted on 21/10/14
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 21/10/14
Ramsey hasn't been crap because of the system. That is a moronic statement. And Ozil played well for Germany on the left in a 4-1-4-1.
posted on 21/10/14
comment by Wengerite (U6219)
posted 25 minutes ago
Ramsey hasn't been crap because of the system. That is a moronic statement. And Ozil played well for Germany on the left in a 4-1-4-1.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He clearly has. He's got more creative responsibility and said himself he likes having a guy ahead of him.
posted on 21/10/14
I would say Ramsey and Wilshere are better breaking from deeper in the 2 of a 4-2-3-1 formation, but not if they are both deep together which is just a bit scary defensively. I think if Ramsey was being played here week in week out we would be seeing better performances from him. Wenger seems to just want to play players out if position and I disagree with anyone who says Ramsey isn't playing poorly because of the system - he is imo, and people like Alexis saying its moronic need to learn to understand the subtleties of the game more.
4-1-4-1 might work if we had a big strong DM to really protect the back 4 but we don't so shouldn't even be considered. It also seems to stifle our play to a degree as its easy to defend against. The problem is that we don't have to players to make it work rather than there being an inherent fault in the formation.
posted on 21/10/14
^sorry, Wengerite, not Alexis
posted on 21/10/14
People are too obsessed with the title that comes with the setup : 4-2-3-1, 4-1-4-1, whatever.
In terms of how the team plays and approaches games, the starting positions is probably less than 10% of the tactical organisation, and in fact, the players for each positions will effectively dictate the shape.
The difference between the 4141 and 4231 is that instead of having a floating playmaker through the middle, it's geared towards having two much more orthodox centre mids. I believe Wenger wanted this because of Ozil's generally poor showings through the middle last year, and felt we couldn't continue to carry him for such a poor return.
I think Wenger is just determined to get Wilshere and Ramsey both into the first XI. The defeat against Villa last year probably scared him off it for a while but he clearly wants to get there at some point. For all fans and pundits go on about rotation and backup options, which are important, the best players tend to play most games, with an occasional rest, so the future of Wilshere, Ramsey & Ozil at Arsenal is pretty difficult to predict.
posted on 21/10/14
Something will have to give imo Chris. Either we sell Ozil and invest in a top striker or forward (depending on how Theo's come back, Ox and Welbz's development and Alexis' position)
OR we rotate Ramsey and Wilshere. Ozil shouldn't play out wide again.
Rumours of Ozil to City for £32m
posted on 21/10/14
Yep, hate seeing Ozil out wide, waste of everyones time.
The thing about rotation is that your top players will play most of your games, I don't think any team set up like "X plays this week, Z plays next week, X plays week after" so if Wilshere and Ramsey don't play together, it's hard to see how they will rotate in and out.
Wenger obviously still has loads of faith in JW, but then he surely won't drop Ozil to make way? Hence him playing wide.
Imagine if we'd just bid £42m for Suarez instead of the insulting £40m +£1 and instead of £42m for Ozil, could of been a very different situation now.
posted on 21/10/14
Thanks for the patronising comment... To suggest Ramsey is solely out of form because of the formation is naiive at best because it doesn't take into account a lot of factors. Ramsey and Arsenal have had a slow start to the season- he had one good game, in the Community Shield, which also happens to be the teams only standout performance (perhaps the other City match and the Gala match were encouraging).
Ramsey ofc likes to come from deep, and I get that having a number 10 in front helps out. But when you have 2 wide guys, another midfielder next you and a forward to act as your foil, there are ways to adapt your game. There is still many opportunities for Ramsey to make runs past players who are advanced of him- in many of the games Wilshere has been positioned higher up than Rambo!
posted on 22/10/14
comment by Chris H (U15205)
posted 17 hours, 16 minutes ago
Yep, hate seeing Ozil out wide, waste of everyones time.
The thing about rotation is that your top players will play most of your games, I don't think any team set up like "X plays this week, Z plays next week, X plays week after" so if Wilshere and Ramsey don't play together, it's hard to see how they will rotate in and out.
Wenger obviously still has loads of faith in JW, but then he surely won't drop Ozil to make way? Hence him playing wide.
Imagine if we'd just bid £42m for Suarez instead of the insulting £40m +£1 and instead of £42m for Ozil, could of been a very different situation now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Probably the same situation but with Cesc instead tbh. Would be a much better team though.
Page 1 of 1