What is failure/success these days?

comment by kneerash-23 Cara Gold (U6876)
posted 36 minutes ago
People are fickle and if it helps them give grief or praise their own team the goal posts will move.


----------------------------------------------------------------------
Pretty much this and also, it allows for wumming

comment by Robb : Bring back Lee Sharpe (U21234)
posted 25 minutes ago
Success these days is qualifying for the CL

Realistically right now only a couple of clubs are gonna win it bar the odd shock run at the trophy so just being in the competition with the money it brings is seen as a success in its own right.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Is that because that's what we're currently doing? That's not at all like you Robb.

Fair enough, but even challenging for the title doesn't really mean anything because no-one remembers or cares about who challenged for the title, only who won it but we should definetly have won at least one PL title in the last 10 yrs.
---
It kind of does, it shows you're competing with the best team in the league
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Kinda, but there are no trophies for competing, and we're constantly told that football is all about trophies.

comment by Robb : Bring back Lee Sharpe (U21234)
posted 27 minutes ago
Success these days is qualifying for the CL

Realistically right now only a couple of clubs are gonna win it bar the odd shock run at the trophy so just being in the competition with the money it brings is seen as a success in its own right.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, Everton had a successful season by their standards and having a go in Europe. Just shows that success is different for everyone. For you success is only getting into the CL, even if that means horrid turgid football 3 seasons in a row.

comment by AFCISMYTEAM (U14931)
posted 1 minute ago
Fair enough, but even challenging for the title doesn't really mean anything because no-one remembers or cares about who challenged for the title, only who won it but we should definetly have won at least one PL title in the last 10 yrs.
---
It kind of does, it shows you're competing with the best team in the league
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Kinda, but there are no trophies for competing, and we're constantly told that football is all about trophies.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is what I think. Arsenal fans would be more more enthusiastic had Arsenal had Spurs' season over their own. They'd feel a lot more hopeful after getting a really high points total, coming closer to winning a title than they have in a long time, and keeping a consistent good form throughout without showing a soft underbelly that can see them lose 3-0 to someone like Stoke on a given day.

Winning an FA Cup and finishing where you've finished is just more of the same from a couple of seasons ago, and it wasn't good enough then, and that was when you managed to finish in the top 4.

I personally believe we have failed this season. We should be winning a trophy each season and we should be qualifying for the CL each season.

Any fan that supports a club that has ambitions to win trophies but hasnt achieved both of the above should consider their season to be a failure. Any fan that tells you otherwise is stuck in the small club mentality similar to your West Broms and your stoke that see premiership survival as a trophy.

Kinda, but there are no trophies for competing, and we're constantly told that football is all about trophies.
-----
I can form my own opinion I don't needy to be told what footballs about, you cannot ignore context. Spurs finished with 16 more points this season than last in a more competitive year, there is tangible progression. For me personally I want the club I support striving to improve every year and I haven't felt like we've done that for about 10 years.

comment by Arouna Jagielka oooh I wanna take ya, Heitinga Nikica come on pretty mama (U1308)
posted 1 hour, 22 minutes ago
Klopp getting into the third qualifying round, northern section of the CL, thats success.


----------------------------------------------------------------------
just finishing above Liverpool is success for Bramleymoor fc aka Everton fc

I totally get that Arsenal are one of only a number of clubs all competing for the same objective. Be it four clubs competing for the title, or six clubs competing for CL qualification. You can't expect to achieve those objectives every season when there's such stiff competition. However, to achieve it never? Is that not a reasonable expectation, that everyone in the mix gets a taste of success every now and then, if not by virtue of their ability then simply by good fortune? It's been 9 years since Arsenal last looked like competing for the title. In that time, Chelsea, Leicester, Liverpool, Utd, City and Spurs have all broken the 80 points PL barrier at various points, some going on to win it. Arsenal haven't.

I always wonder, if Arsenal had 3 separate managers since 2006, each serving 3 or 4 years, and the seasons panned out identically to how they've done under Wenger - would we not look upon the first 2 as failures? And would the last one not be seen as something of a Houllier figure, a bit of a cup specialist but could still be upgraded upon?

comment by Spurtle2 (U1608)
posted 1 hour ago
comment by AFCISMYTEAM (U14931)
posted 1 minute ago
Fair enough, but even challenging for the title doesn't really mean anything because no-one remembers or cares about who challenged for the title, only who won it but we should definetly have won at least one PL title in the last 10 yrs.
---
It kind of does, it shows you're competing with the best team in the league
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Kinda, but there are no trophies for competing, and we're constantly told that football is all about trophies.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is what I think. Arsenal fans would be more more enthusiastic had Arsenal had Spurs' season over their own. They'd feel a lot more hopeful after getting a really high points total, coming closer to winning a title than they have in a long time, and keeping a consistent good form throughout without showing a soft underbelly that can see them lose 3-0 to someone like Stoke on a given day.

Winning an FA Cup and finishing where you've finished is just more of the same from a couple of seasons ago, and it wasn't good enough then, and that was when you managed to finish in the top 4.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
it's different for both our clubs, even though we've been close for a few years now top 4 is an achievement for Spurs but not for us. If we don't win the league personally I don't care if we finish 2nd or 6th. We've been in the CL every year it's not the holy grail for us like it is for Spurs. If we end up out of it for a few years in a row then we might struggle but for a one off I don't care and am actually looking forward to the Europa. Winning trophies is the best feeling so I'd take that over Spurs season. From a Spurs POV maybe you're season is better. I don't mean this as a dig but Spurs fans keep saying trophies aren't important, only because you hardly ever win any.