Depends on the squad you have imo which are forever changing.
only one team can win the league. I would be happy with a trophy a season and see that as a success.
People are fickle and if it helps them give grief or praise their own team the goal posts will move.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by Sideshow (U11809)
posted 21 seconds ago
Most of the talk about who failed and succeeded on here is just fans trying to mock other clubs seasons.
There shouldn't really be a fixed measure of what is deemed a success or failure though.
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Most of the talk about who failed and succeeded on here is just fans trying to mock other clubs seasons.
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That sounds about right.
Depends on what team is doing what. It's success this season for Spurs because we weren't even predicted to finish in the top 4 and are, I have to admit, a smaller club than the rest of the top 6, at this present time. Coming 2nd on 86 points when we would struggle for top 4 most years a couple of seasons ago is good going for us.
Winning an FA Cup is decent enough, but when you're Arsenal and finishing outside the top 4 and haven't got near 1st place for 10 years, is it good enough?
Success these days is qualifying for the CL
Realistically right now only a couple of clubs are gonna win it bar the odd shock run at the trophy so just being in the competition with the money it brings is seen as a success in its own right.
Depends on what team is doing what. It's success this season for Spurs because we weren't even predicted to finish in the top 4 and are, I have to admit, a smaller club than the rest of the top 6, at this present time. Coming 2nd on 86 points when we would struggle for top 4 most years a couple of seasons ago is good going for us.
Winning an FA Cup is decent enough, but when you're Arsenal and finishing outside the top 4 and haven't got near 1st place for 10 years, is it good enough?
--------------------------------------------------------
But as you just said, we have also been that smaller club (have less finances) than Man u, Chelsea and Man C, over the last decade so should we be expecting 1st anyway?
Success these days is qualifying for the CL
Realistically right now only a couple of clubs are gonna win it bar the odd shock run at the trophy so just being in the competition with the money it brings is seen as a success in its own right.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Really? So we HAVE been successful for the last 22 years then?
It seems to be however Wenger chooses to define it.
comment by AFCISMYTEAM (U14931)
posted 19 seconds ago
Depends on what team is doing what. It's success this season for Spurs because we weren't even predicted to finish in the top 4 and are, I have to admit, a smaller club than the rest of the top 6, at this present time. Coming 2nd on 86 points when we would struggle for top 4 most years a couple of seasons ago is good going for us.
Winning an FA Cup is decent enough, but when you're Arsenal and finishing outside the top 4 and haven't got near 1st place for 10 years, is it good enough?
--------------------------------------------------------
But as you just said, we have also been that smaller club (have less finances) than Man u, Chelsea and Man C, over the last decade so should we be expecting 1st anyway?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
As a team that's been in the top 4 for as long as you have, yes you should be expected to challenge for 1st place, more than you have.
Likewise, it'll be seen as failure for us if we keep producing seasons like last season without winning anything. As we're near the start of this progression then it isn't at the moment.
Klopp getting into the third qualifying round, northern section of the CL, thats success.
comment by AFCISMYTEAM (U14931)
posted 7 minutes ago
Success these days is qualifying for the CL
Realistically right now only a couple of clubs are gonna win it bar the odd shock run at the trophy so just being in the competition with the money it brings is seen as a success in its own right.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Really? So we HAVE been successful for the last 22 years then?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To an extent, yes. Successful in getting the minimum expected of you.
As a team that's been in the top 4 for as long as you have, yes you should be expected to challenge for 1st place, more than you have.
Likewise, it'll be seen as failure for us if we keep producing seasons like last season without winning anything. As we're near the start of this progression then it isn't at the moment.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fair enough, but even challenging for the title doesn't really mean anything because no-one remembers or cares about who challenged for the title, only who won it but we should definetly have won at least one PL title in the last 10 yrs.
comment by AFCISMYTEAM (U14931)
posted 14 minutes ago
Success these days is qualifying for the CL
Realistically right now only a couple of clubs are gonna win it bar the odd shock run at the trophy so just being in the competition with the money it brings is seen as a success in its own right.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Really? So we HAVE been successful for the last 22 years then?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why are you so desperate for rivals fans approval of your clubs success or lack of?
Success these days is qualifying for the CL
Realistically right now only a couple of clubs are gonna win it bar the odd shock run at the trophy so just being in the competition with the money it brings is seen as a success in its own right.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Really? So we HAVE been successful for the last 22 years then?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why are you so desperate for rivals fans approval of your clubs success or lack of?
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Not desperate for anything, just having a discussion.
comment by AFCISMYTEAM (U14931)
posted 1 minute ago
As a team that's been in the top 4 for as long as you have, yes you should be expected to challenge for 1st place, more than you have.
Likewise, it'll be seen as failure for us if we keep producing seasons like last season without winning anything. As we're near the start of this progression then it isn't at the moment.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fair enough, but even challenging for the title doesn't really mean anything because no-one remembers or cares about who challenged for the title, only who won it but we should definetly have won at least one PL title in the last 10 yrs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I mean challenge and end up winners, at least from time to time.
The most damning stat for you guys is that despite being in the top 4 the last 10 years, you've been nearer to 5th place than 1st place, each season.
Fair enough, but even challenging for the title doesn't really mean anything because no-one remembers or cares about who challenged for the title, only who won it but we should definetly have won at least one PL title in the last 10 yrs.
---
It kind of does, it shows you're competing with the best team in the league.
comment by kneerash-23 Cara Gold (U6876)
posted 36 minutes ago
People are fickle and if it helps them give grief or praise their own team the goal posts will move.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Pretty much this and also, it allows for wumming
comment by Robb : Bring back Lee Sharpe (U21234)
posted 25 minutes ago
Success these days is qualifying for the CL
Realistically right now only a couple of clubs are gonna win it bar the odd shock run at the trophy so just being in the competition with the money it brings is seen as a success in its own right.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Is that because that's what we're currently doing? That's not at all like you Robb.
Fair enough, but even challenging for the title doesn't really mean anything because no-one remembers or cares about who challenged for the title, only who won it but we should definetly have won at least one PL title in the last 10 yrs.
---
It kind of does, it shows you're competing with the best team in the league
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Kinda, but there are no trophies for competing, and we're constantly told that football is all about trophies.
comment by Robb : Bring back Lee Sharpe (U21234)
posted 27 minutes ago
Success these days is qualifying for the CL
Realistically right now only a couple of clubs are gonna win it bar the odd shock run at the trophy so just being in the competition with the money it brings is seen as a success in its own right.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, Everton had a successful season by their standards and having a go in Europe. Just shows that success is different for everyone. For you success is only getting into the CL, even if that means horrid turgid football 3 seasons in a row.
comment by AFCISMYTEAM (U14931)
posted 1 minute ago
Fair enough, but even challenging for the title doesn't really mean anything because no-one remembers or cares about who challenged for the title, only who won it but we should definetly have won at least one PL title in the last 10 yrs.
---
It kind of does, it shows you're competing with the best team in the league
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Kinda, but there are no trophies for competing, and we're constantly told that football is all about trophies.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is what I think. Arsenal fans would be more more enthusiastic had Arsenal had Spurs' season over their own. They'd feel a lot more hopeful after getting a really high points total, coming closer to winning a title than they have in a long time, and keeping a consistent good form throughout without showing a soft underbelly that can see them lose 3-0 to someone like Stoke on a given day.
Winning an FA Cup and finishing where you've finished is just more of the same from a couple of seasons ago, and it wasn't good enough then, and that was when you managed to finish in the top 4.
I personally believe we have failed this season. We should be winning a trophy each season and we should be qualifying for the CL each season.
Any fan that supports a club that has ambitions to win trophies but hasnt achieved both of the above should consider their season to be a failure. Any fan that tells you otherwise is stuck in the small club mentality similar to your West Broms and your stoke that see premiership survival as a trophy.
Kinda, but there are no trophies for competing, and we're constantly told that football is all about trophies.
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I can form my own opinion I don't needy to be told what footballs about, you cannot ignore context. Spurs finished with 16 more points this season than last in a more competitive year, there is tangible progression. For me personally I want the club I support striving to improve every year and I haven't felt like we've done that for about 10 years.
Sign in if you want to comment
What is failure/success these days?
Page 1 of 2
posted on 31/5/17
Depends on the squad you have imo which are forever changing.
only one team can win the league. I would be happy with a trophy a season and see that as a success.
posted on 31/5/17
People are fickle and if it helps them give grief or praise their own team the goal posts will move.
posted on 31/5/17
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 31/5/17
comment by Sideshow (U11809)
posted 21 seconds ago
Most of the talk about who failed and succeeded on here is just fans trying to mock other clubs seasons.
There shouldn't really be a fixed measure of what is deemed a success or failure though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
posted on 31/5/17
Most of the talk about who failed and succeeded on here is just fans trying to mock other clubs seasons.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
That sounds about right.
posted on 31/5/17
Depends on what team is doing what. It's success this season for Spurs because we weren't even predicted to finish in the top 4 and are, I have to admit, a smaller club than the rest of the top 6, at this present time. Coming 2nd on 86 points when we would struggle for top 4 most years a couple of seasons ago is good going for us.
Winning an FA Cup is decent enough, but when you're Arsenal and finishing outside the top 4 and haven't got near 1st place for 10 years, is it good enough?
posted on 31/5/17
Success these days is qualifying for the CL
Realistically right now only a couple of clubs are gonna win it bar the odd shock run at the trophy so just being in the competition with the money it brings is seen as a success in its own right.
posted on 31/5/17
Depends on what team is doing what. It's success this season for Spurs because we weren't even predicted to finish in the top 4 and are, I have to admit, a smaller club than the rest of the top 6, at this present time. Coming 2nd on 86 points when we would struggle for top 4 most years a couple of seasons ago is good going for us.
Winning an FA Cup is decent enough, but when you're Arsenal and finishing outside the top 4 and haven't got near 1st place for 10 years, is it good enough?
--------------------------------------------------------
But as you just said, we have also been that smaller club (have less finances) than Man u, Chelsea and Man C, over the last decade so should we be expecting 1st anyway?
posted on 31/5/17
Success these days is qualifying for the CL
Realistically right now only a couple of clubs are gonna win it bar the odd shock run at the trophy so just being in the competition with the money it brings is seen as a success in its own right.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Really? So we HAVE been successful for the last 22 years then?
posted on 31/5/17
It seems to be however Wenger chooses to define it.
posted on 31/5/17
comment by AFCISMYTEAM (U14931)
posted 19 seconds ago
Depends on what team is doing what. It's success this season for Spurs because we weren't even predicted to finish in the top 4 and are, I have to admit, a smaller club than the rest of the top 6, at this present time. Coming 2nd on 86 points when we would struggle for top 4 most years a couple of seasons ago is good going for us.
Winning an FA Cup is decent enough, but when you're Arsenal and finishing outside the top 4 and haven't got near 1st place for 10 years, is it good enough?
--------------------------------------------------------
But as you just said, we have also been that smaller club (have less finances) than Man u, Chelsea and Man C, over the last decade so should we be expecting 1st anyway?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
As a team that's been in the top 4 for as long as you have, yes you should be expected to challenge for 1st place, more than you have.
Likewise, it'll be seen as failure for us if we keep producing seasons like last season without winning anything. As we're near the start of this progression then it isn't at the moment.
posted on 31/5/17
Klopp getting into the third qualifying round, northern section of the CL, thats success.
posted on 31/5/17
comment by AFCISMYTEAM (U14931)
posted 7 minutes ago
Success these days is qualifying for the CL
Realistically right now only a couple of clubs are gonna win it bar the odd shock run at the trophy so just being in the competition with the money it brings is seen as a success in its own right.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Really? So we HAVE been successful for the last 22 years then?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To an extent, yes. Successful in getting the minimum expected of you.
posted on 31/5/17
As a team that's been in the top 4 for as long as you have, yes you should be expected to challenge for 1st place, more than you have.
Likewise, it'll be seen as failure for us if we keep producing seasons like last season without winning anything. As we're near the start of this progression then it isn't at the moment.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fair enough, but even challenging for the title doesn't really mean anything because no-one remembers or cares about who challenged for the title, only who won it but we should definetly have won at least one PL title in the last 10 yrs.
posted on 31/5/17
comment by AFCISMYTEAM (U14931)
posted 14 minutes ago
Success these days is qualifying for the CL
Realistically right now only a couple of clubs are gonna win it bar the odd shock run at the trophy so just being in the competition with the money it brings is seen as a success in its own right.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Really? So we HAVE been successful for the last 22 years then?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why are you so desperate for rivals fans approval of your clubs success or lack of?
posted on 31/5/17
Success these days is qualifying for the CL
Realistically right now only a couple of clubs are gonna win it bar the odd shock run at the trophy so just being in the competition with the money it brings is seen as a success in its own right.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Really? So we HAVE been successful for the last 22 years then?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why are you so desperate for rivals fans approval of your clubs success or lack of?
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Not desperate for anything, just having a discussion.
posted on 31/5/17
comment by AFCISMYTEAM (U14931)
posted 1 minute ago
As a team that's been in the top 4 for as long as you have, yes you should be expected to challenge for 1st place, more than you have.
Likewise, it'll be seen as failure for us if we keep producing seasons like last season without winning anything. As we're near the start of this progression then it isn't at the moment.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fair enough, but even challenging for the title doesn't really mean anything because no-one remembers or cares about who challenged for the title, only who won it but we should definetly have won at least one PL title in the last 10 yrs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I mean challenge and end up winners, at least from time to time.
The most damning stat for you guys is that despite being in the top 4 the last 10 years, you've been nearer to 5th place than 1st place, each season.
posted on 31/5/17
Fair enough, but even challenging for the title doesn't really mean anything because no-one remembers or cares about who challenged for the title, only who won it but we should definetly have won at least one PL title in the last 10 yrs.
---
It kind of does, it shows you're competing with the best team in the league.
posted on 31/5/17
comment by kneerash-23 Cara Gold (U6876)
posted 36 minutes ago
People are fickle and if it helps them give grief or praise their own team the goal posts will move.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Pretty much this and also, it allows for wumming
posted on 31/5/17
comment by Robb : Bring back Lee Sharpe (U21234)
posted 25 minutes ago
Success these days is qualifying for the CL
Realistically right now only a couple of clubs are gonna win it bar the odd shock run at the trophy so just being in the competition with the money it brings is seen as a success in its own right.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Is that because that's what we're currently doing? That's not at all like you Robb.
posted on 31/5/17
Fair enough, but even challenging for the title doesn't really mean anything because no-one remembers or cares about who challenged for the title, only who won it but we should definetly have won at least one PL title in the last 10 yrs.
---
It kind of does, it shows you're competing with the best team in the league
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Kinda, but there are no trophies for competing, and we're constantly told that football is all about trophies.
posted on 31/5/17
comment by Robb : Bring back Lee Sharpe (U21234)
posted 27 minutes ago
Success these days is qualifying for the CL
Realistically right now only a couple of clubs are gonna win it bar the odd shock run at the trophy so just being in the competition with the money it brings is seen as a success in its own right.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, Everton had a successful season by their standards and having a go in Europe. Just shows that success is different for everyone. For you success is only getting into the CL, even if that means horrid turgid football 3 seasons in a row.
posted on 31/5/17
comment by AFCISMYTEAM (U14931)
posted 1 minute ago
Fair enough, but even challenging for the title doesn't really mean anything because no-one remembers or cares about who challenged for the title, only who won it but we should definetly have won at least one PL title in the last 10 yrs.
---
It kind of does, it shows you're competing with the best team in the league
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Kinda, but there are no trophies for competing, and we're constantly told that football is all about trophies.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is what I think. Arsenal fans would be more more enthusiastic had Arsenal had Spurs' season over their own. They'd feel a lot more hopeful after getting a really high points total, coming closer to winning a title than they have in a long time, and keeping a consistent good form throughout without showing a soft underbelly that can see them lose 3-0 to someone like Stoke on a given day.
Winning an FA Cup and finishing where you've finished is just more of the same from a couple of seasons ago, and it wasn't good enough then, and that was when you managed to finish in the top 4.
posted on 31/5/17
I personally believe we have failed this season. We should be winning a trophy each season and we should be qualifying for the CL each season.
Any fan that supports a club that has ambitions to win trophies but hasnt achieved both of the above should consider their season to be a failure. Any fan that tells you otherwise is stuck in the small club mentality similar to your West Broms and your stoke that see premiership survival as a trophy.
posted on 31/5/17
Kinda, but there are no trophies for competing, and we're constantly told that football is all about trophies.
-----
I can form my own opinion I don't needy to be told what footballs about, you cannot ignore context. Spurs finished with 16 more points this season than last in a more competitive year, there is tangible progression. For me personally I want the club I support striving to improve every year and I haven't felt like we've done that for about 10 years.
Page 1 of 2