It is what it is

comment by renoog (U4449)
posted 44 minutes ago
So many people do t seem to see qjat is in geont of their noses. Ramsey is being played as an attacking midfielder atthe top of a diamond midfield 4. He still has more tackles this season than Xhaka who is being played as the deep midfielder in the diamond. The problem is not an attacking player but an inability to defend in the player being used deeper
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So according to you, we're playing a midfield diamond - 2 of which consist of wingbacks hugging the touchline, and you're blaming the one guy left manning the entire centre of the pitch for not being good enough?
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Yes. Because he doesnt wven tey to dwfwnd 99% of the time.

comment by Tu Meke Santi (U3732)
posted 34 minutes ago
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Tu Meke Santi(U3732)
posted 1 minute ago
We know Giroud's limitations as exemplified by the easy chance he missed against Stoke to equalise and his disappearing act against Liverpool.

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What utter shiiite.
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Why did you miss the header that went wide. And what impact did Giroud have against Liverpool?
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It wasn't an easy chance. You can't expect him to score every half chance he gets, don't be ridiculous.

Did you miss his knock down in the dying seconds that would have led to an easy tap in had anybody anticipated it?

If you're criticising him for failing to change a game we were 3-0 down at the time, and in which we were completely dominated, then you're clearly blinkered. It's no use debating with people such as yourself.
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Now thats how you perceive it because opinion on this forum always has to divide into camps and then each camp defends without even remembering what it was about in the first place. I am not as critical of Giroud as others. However I know his best for the team is when he comes of the bench rather than starting. Otherwise why did Wenger buy Lacazette and keep Alexis. And thats not really even debate anymore.

So many people do t seem to see qjat is in geont of their noses. Ramsey is being played as an attacking midfielder atthe top of a diamond midfield 4. He still has more tackles this season than Xhaka who is being played as the deep midfielder in the diamond. The problem is not an attacking player but an inability to defend in the player being used deeper
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So according to you, we're playing a midfield diamond - 2 of which consist of wingbacks hugging the touchline, and you're blaming the one guy left manning the entire centre of the pitch for not being good enough?
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Yes. Because he doesnt wven tey to dwfwnd 99% of the time.
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Well it's an impossible situation. Xhaka obviously has defensive shortcomings and should not be playing as the deepest, most defensive player (a deep-lying playmaker with energy alongside him would be his best role). But no player, not even Kante, would be able to perform a role where they're expected to cover the CM area by themselves.

Look at Stoke's goal and Liverpool's first 2 goals to see how suicidal it is to leave so much open space in the middle of the park. It's a joke that a top level PL manager can set up his team in such a way, and allow it to happen 2 games in a row. You'd expect it of someone like Kevin Keegan, not a guy who's won 3 league titles.

Cech Ospina
Mustafi Koscielny Mertesacker Holding Monreal
Walcott Lacazette Giroud Sanchez

Forget having a midfield

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Kroenke has always been consistent with his American sports franchises. The only money he spends is in the actual equity of the club.

He's perfectly comfortable being an also-ran as long as he doesn't have to dip into his pocket for talent. Let the club's money men take care of that.

An absolute nightmare for a fan, but a joy ride for any shareholders lucky enough to be along for the ride. Arsenal's share price is currently well above £20k as of the first week of August.
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There is a difference in American franchises because there is no relegation, no player fees and so the impact on brand value is not as much. In football brand values varies dramatically on levels of success. And Champions League is another league in my opinion. So relegation from that league from any length of time is extremely damaging. Which is why Kroenke has allowed Wenger to write-off £60m by not selling Alexis in the hope we will get back to the CL this season.

Look at Stoke's goal and Liverpool's first 2 goals to see how suicidal it is to leave so much open space in the middle of the park. It's a joke that a top level PL manager can set up his team in such a way, and allow it to happen 2 games in a row. You'd expect it of someone like Kevin Keegan, not a guy who's won 3 league titles.
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And this is what worried me even last year when all were singing the praises of 3-4-3. Essentially our fullbacks were playing higher. And our midfield higher still. So instead of having 4 at the back we were playing literally 3 at the back or a flat back 5 when teams attacked. This reminded me of the useless way Bould used to play on occasion with Linighan and Adams. I think its his baby and I think its terribly antiquated and doomed for failure. I didn't expect that much calamity tbh.

And this is what worried me even last year when all were singing the praises of 3-4-3. Essentially our fullbacks were playing higher. And our midfield higher still. So instead of having 4 at the back we were playing literally 3 at the back or a flat back 5 when teams attacked. This reminded me of the useless way Bould used to play on occasion with Linighan and Adams. I think its his baby and I think its terribly antiquated and doomed for failure. I didn't expect that much calamity tbh.
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Wenger has never been able to solve the defensive conundrum that moving away from the 4-4-2 has created. When we switched to a permanent 4-2-3-1/4-3-3 in 09/10, we were countered to shreds in the wide areas by the likes of United and Chelsea (remember those 3-0s?). Since our fullbacks and wide players all liked to get forward and doing so was essential to our possession game.

This was never solved hence the dramatic rise in goals conceded post-09, when before we generally used to keep the goals conceded column down to the 30s.
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Arsenal_F.C._seasons

Now with the switch to 3-4-2-1, in theory you should be protected against counters in the wide areas since you have 3 CBs, and the 3rd CB can shuttle out wide to protect the flank that's being attacked. But you still need 2 in midfield or teams will just re-direct their counters through the middle. We saw against Stoke, for their goal we had a flat back 5, what good did it do us? F@ck all, they just waltzed through the middle. Any good defensive system needs 2 lines, one to defend the box, one to defend the zone in front. It seems Wenger thinks that having 3/5 at the back allows him to get away with being light in DM/CM zone. When I watch the Stoke and Liverpool games again, this is not an accidental occurrence, or Ramsey being indisciplined. It's quite apparent that Wenger has instructed him to push up because it happened deliberately in certain phases of the match.

To make matters worse, Arsenal haven't yet worked out how to have 1 CB step up from the backline yet, which hurts us in possession play as well as defending counters.

It's actually weird to be saying this now since I thought the way the 3-4-2-1 was played against City and Chelsea in the FA Cup was very good, and I thought it'd give us a platform to really work on it this pre-season especially with Kolasinac signing who's perfect for it. But Wenger f@cked about using mix'n'match midfielders as CBs in pre-season, instead of really using the opportunity to drill the system into his defenders. And the less said about the shambolic selections in the first 3 games of this season the better.

Our first team isnt too bad on paper but we have the depth of a puddle, except at CB.

Id go
Cech
Bellerin Mustafi/Holding Kos Kolasinac/Monreal
Coq
Walcott Wilshere Ramsey Sanchez
Laca

4-1-4-1 to allow 5 defensive players as we have in the 3-4-3, but with a different formation and Coq to protect the defence. Walcott for pace and he does help out in defence. Wilshere and Ramsey would have some attacking and some defensive responsibility.

Give it a go in training and if it doesnt look right try a 4-3-3 of
Cech
Bellerin Mustafi/Holding Kos Kolasinac/Monreal
Ramsey Coq Wilshere
Walcott Laca Sanchez


Then mess around with player selection and formations until I found a formation and players that I like and think work well together. Trying things out in training and finding the right team is the key thing. Until we get to fo the training its all speculation.

You never know, after tinkering in training I might even come to the same team as Wenger. Unlikely but possible.

When we switched to a permanent 4-2-3-1/4-3-3 in 09/10, we were countered to shreds in the wide areas by the likes of United and Chelsea (remember those 3-0s?). Since our fullbacks and wide players all liked to get forward and doing so was essential to our possession game.
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Yes but who were our centre midfield two and what was our centre back pairing and who were our full backs in that era? Denilson, Song, Arteta, Wilshere, Flamini, Diaby. Our best partnership was between Cesc and Flamini that saw us get close to the title and also do well in the Champions League falling flat on our face after Dudu was injured. Kolo was sold for money and replaced by Senderos, Djourou, Squillaci, Silvestre etc. Not all that great. But the real hammerings came when Arteta, Flamini (released by Milan for free) etc. were in the middle.

Would you blame the system for that or the players. In my opinion its the players. Yes we have always sent our full backs up the pitch at the same time. I still can't forgive Lauren at full back leaving his position to allow Wayne Bridge to kick us out of the Champions League in our unbeaten season. But in the whole the two midfield players can cover the space left behind the full backs if they have the pace and power to do so. And centre backs can in theory shift clockwise or anti-clockwise to always present a back 4 against a counter (Mertesacker being the exception to the rule).

Now in the present system our full backs have the same freedom as before but no one covers behind them because, well thats the extra CB's job. However our centre backs are not that mobile and their anticipation is even worse. So Holding, Mustafi, Monreal don't cover. As a result you get goals like the one Jesse scored or players like vardy can easily find gaps in between. Essentially our CBs are trying to cover space rather than picking up players. In a back 4 its much simpler to pick up your man and in game organisation is much simpler. For example Mustafi can shout to Kos to pick up someone making a run between the lines. With 3 centre backs they are all marking space and looking at each other as players make runs.

Chelsea make it work by having a sweeper organising players behind 2 CBs (Luiz) and another sweeper infront of the two CBs (Kante). The two CBs play a little wider than a CB pairing compared to CBs in a back 4, to cover the wing backs, but they are still very structured. They are not sunning about marking space. They are picking up players as you would do in flat back 4. The gap is obviously right down the middle. That space is covered by Kante first, and then Luiz as they see fit. They are not structured in any way but use their intelligence, they are essentially free in the formation. How much do you think Kante and Luiz would cost in present market. They defend side to side. Luiz can step into deep midfield (never further than that) and Kante can act as a press man behind the strikers. I don't care how much drilling you do. You need players of the physique and intelligence of Kante/Luiz. Spurs do an inferior version using Dier in the Luiz position and Wanayama in the Kante role. Chelsea and Spurs are actually very vulnerable to a player like Ozil or De Bryne right down the middle of the pitch because Luiz, Kante etc are picking on instinct rather than man marking.

As for why it worked last year against Man Utd and Chelsea? A lot of it was a surprise for other teams and they didn't out number us in midfield or press us. Chelsea because they were also playing one less man in midfield, and Man Utd because they were playing counter attack. Spurs however did and our 3 at the back system pretty much fell apart like recently. Stoke were also playing counter attack which is why we had greater possession but when you are playing one fewer attacker you will create less chances especially in away games.

So essentially summing up. Either buy the right players for a 3-4-3 or dump it. Since most teams in the world play a rigid back 4 its much easier and cheaper to find players used to that system. Mourinho has stuck to his principles, realised a slow focal striker is what was holding them back and suddenly they look great. I expect Pep to sort it out as well. In my opinion Wenger needs to stick to the ideals that made him successful. Go back to attacking football, use the better players he has and just commit one full back to attack at one time, and use two sitting midfield players. Ideally one of Elneny/Xhaka would need to bring the ball out which is a problem. But Wenger didn't buy a mf to replace santi. Maybe Wilshere can do what made him famous? Ramsey certainly cannot.

Give peace a chance!