There seems to be a consensus that the Portugal team is poor and being carried by C. Ronaldo while a decent or good Argentina side is failing to perform despite having Messi and a host of attacking talent available to them.
If we were to do a combine 11 of both sides, minus Messi and Ronaldo, how many from each team would have players represented in the 11?
(Note: Some of these players may have played or not, but they're the ones I would choose)
My formations would be 433/451/4231 or varients of these.
Goalkeepers:
Both first choice keepers are equal, but Argentina started the tournament without their best as Romero is injured. While Willy is a decent backup, Rui is a better keeper. Generally, Argentina are quite poor in this area as their first and second choice keepers are back up keepers. And Argentina's second choice is as good as Portugal's third.
GK:
Rui Paricio
Defenders:
This is a but mixed in my opinion. Portugal have the better full backs, Argentina the better centre backs.
While both Otamendi and Rojo have their issues, they're better choices than the past his best Pele, Rui Alves, Fonte, etc. Players who are past their best. Even Fazio has had a good season at Roma.
The full backs goes to Portugal simply due to Argentina not having anyone good enough or played at a high enough level. I'd also say I've watched more of the Portugal ones than them.
DF:
Cedric, Otamendi, Rojo, Guerreiro
Midfielders:
I'll be honest and say this is probably the most difficult area to choose. I think Portugal just edge it. Argentina have a few players here who are past their best and their wingers down inspire confidence. Mascherano is 34, Perez and Biglia are 32 and neither of those were top class players. Why Benega hasn't started a match is a mystery. He's probably their best cm in the squad. Their wingers don't inspire confidence either. Meza hasn't never played at the highest level and is 26. They have two wingers that play in Portugal (Salvio and Acuna) who are decent but not great either. And then there is Di Maria. I'd say he's the best winger in either team but he seems to be playing like he did for United after his home was burgled.
Portugal have their own average midfielders. Other than Bernardo Silva, the rest are average. William Carvalho was highly rated a few years ago but has not improved since them. Then their are the aging legs of Moutinho and Fernandes. The former is decent and the latter average. They have other, younger players who may go on to improve but I don't think they're that good yet.
MF:
---------------William Carvalho, Benega/Moutinho
B. Silva, - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - B. Fernandes
Strikers:
Argentina win this hands down. Take away Ronaldo and you're left with Milan flop Andre Silva. The others they have are primarily wingers or wide forwards that don't really do enough up front. Gonzalo Higuaín, Sergio Agüero, and Paulo Dybala would be the envy of any international side out there. Along with them, Argentina have Messi. That's quite an array of talented strikers. I'd personally start with Dybala in a ten role and Higuaín in front. I think Agüero is a better striker but Higuaín would suit the team up front better.
FW:
Dybala
Higuain
All in all we have 4-5 Argentine players and 5-6 Portuguese players. Maybe Ronaldo isn't in such a bad Portugal side as it is being made out nor Messi in such a good Argentina side.
It could simply be that the lack of decent wide and FB has hindered Argentina, connecting the Middle, where their Cm options are weak and not very creative. Whereas Portugal play in a way to minimise their weakness while getting the best out of their strength (Ronaldo).
Over to you lot.
Argentina and Portugal
posted on 22/6/18
comment by Clockwork Red (U4892)
posted 1 hour, 36 minutes ago
Combining the “Messi-Ronaldo” theme with the “combined XI” model
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Every generation or so a man steps from the shadows and completely revolutionizes the way we think about the game.
posted on 22/6/18
comment by Nathan Ralph (U1734)
posted 24 minutes ago
Argentina would do better if they realised that they were shiiiite. Portugal realised their limitations a long time ago and started to adopt something called tactics to account for this.
Last night was like putting a lion’s head on a mouse and still calling it a lion and letting it think it was still a lion. If it realised that there was no point in it having that scary head if it couldn’t do anything with it, due to it’s pathetic little body, then maybe it would have changed the way it approached fighting a perfectly normal, healthy hyena. Or opted for a different, if still limited body.
Portugal are more like a tiger’s head on an elephant. You can still use the elephant body to fend off the hyena, and you have that tiger’s head to do some damage from a good position if the hyena lets its guard down for a second. If Portugal had chased after the hyena with the elephant body and the tiger head then they would have been pretty ineffective. They know how to use the elephant body in the best way to get the best out of the tiger head.
I think the mouse body last night was paraplegic as well to be fair.
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posted on 22/6/18
Comment Deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 22/6/18
Both relatively poor sides man-for-man when measured against the squads they've been able to draw from in previous tournaments.
Portugal's centreback options really aren't all that great, and although they have some talent in CM, getting this group of midfielders to play together has always been a problem. Even at the Euros their midfield looked a disjointed mess.
posted on 22/6/18
Comment Deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 22/6/18
comment by Nathan Ralph (U1734)
posted 1 hour, 3 minutes ago
Argentina would do better if they realised that they were shiiiite. Portugal realised their limitations a long time ago and started to adopt something called tactics to account for this.
Last night was like putting a lion’s head on a mouse and still calling it a lion and letting it think it was still a lion. If it realised that there was no point in it having that scary head if it couldn’t do anything with it, due to it’s pathetic little body, then maybe it would have changed the way it approached fighting a perfectly normal, healthy hyena. Or opted for a different, if still limited body.
Portugal are more like a tiger’s head on an elephant. You can still use the elephant body to fend off the hyena, and you have that tiger’s head to do some damage from a good position if the hyena lets its guard down for a second. If Portugal had chased after the hyena with the elephant body and the tiger head then they would have been pretty ineffective. They know how to use the elephant body in the best way to get the best out of the tiger head.
I think the mouse body last night was paraplegic as well to be fair.
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Rene Meulensteen, is that you?
posted on 22/6/18
Let’s be honest tho, Messi fangirls will use the performance of this Argentina team as a vindication for his failure to truly excel with his country when its mattered most, but will ignore the fact he was part of 3 much better Argentina squads who he couldn’t guide to or even participate in a successful World Cup campaign (I know they got to the final 4 years ago but they were still pretty awful).
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Losing to an injury time winner in a World Cup final is not "participating in a successful World Cup campaign". What kind of horse sheite is this? And no, they were not "awful" in the tournament. They qualified top of South America, won all 3 of their group games, and while they did struggle for goals in the knockout stages, they were the better team and deserving winners in all their knockout stage matches other than the final that Germany edged by a nose.
I get it that you have a view. But defending it so fanatically with such BS makes it clear the troll value is all you're interested in rather than cogent arguments.
posted on 22/6/18
comment by Nathan Ralph (U1734)
posted 3 hours, 46 minutes ago
Argentina would do better if they realised that they were shiiiite. Portugal realised their limitations a long time ago and started to adopt something called tactics to account for this.
Last night was like putting a lion’s head on a mouse and still calling it a lion and letting it think it was still a lion. If it realised that there was no point in it having that scary head if it couldn’t do anything with it, due to it’s pathetic little body, then maybe it would have changed the way it approached fighting a perfectly normal, healthy hyena. Or opted for a different, if still limited body.
Portugal are more like a tiger’s head on an elephant. You can still use the elephant body to fend off the hyena, and you have that tiger’s head to do some damage from a good position if the hyena lets its guard down for a second. If Portugal had chased after the hyena with the elephant body and the tiger head then they would have been pretty ineffective. They know how to use the elephant body in the best way to get the best out of the tiger head.
I think the mouse body last night was paraplegic as well to be fair.
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a Baz classic
posted on 22/6/18
Decent from Barry today, definitely needs to revert to this type more often.
posted on 22/6/18
comment by Nathan Ralph (U1734)
posted 8 hours, 57 minutes ago
Argentina would do better if they realised that they were shiiiite. Portugal realised their limitations a long time ago and started to adopt something called tactics to account for this.
Last night was like putting a lion’s head on a mouse and still calling it a lion and letting it think it was still a lion. If it realised that there was no point in it having that scary head if it couldn’t do anything with it, due to it’s pathetic little body, then maybe it would have changed the way it approached fighting a perfectly normal, healthy hyena. Or opted for a different, if still limited body.
Portugal are more like a tiger’s head on an elephant. You can still use the elephant body to fend off the hyena, and you have that tiger’s head to do some damage from a good position if the hyena lets its guard down for a second. If Portugal had chased after the hyena with the elephant body and the tiger head then they would have been pretty ineffective. They know how to use the elephant body in the best way to get the best out of the tiger head.
I think the mouse body last night was paraplegic as well to be fair.
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This certainly smells of some part of an elephant,the many kilos that leave its backside daily!