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Check the Messi/Ronaldo threads.

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That's the overall point of my thread. They aren't as good as some people seem to think they are.

Fonte and Pepe are better than Otamendi and whoever else they have in defence.

I don't think they're better. I do think that the way the teams are set up is a factor. Fonte and Pepe would be as bad as as the Artentine defenders were if you swapped them in for the Argentina defence against Croatia, as the system doesn't suit any of the defenders from either nations.

Portugal team is definitely better than Argentina’s but it’s still a pretty average team.

Let’s be honest tho, Messi fangirls will use the performance of this Argentina team as a vindication for his failure to truly excel with his country when its mattered most, but will ignore the fact he was part of 3 much better Argentina squads who he couldn’t guide to or even participate in a successful World Cup campaign (I know they got to the final 4 years ago but they were still pretty awful).

Ronaldo has done much better with far worse. This is probably the best Portugal squad over the last decade or so though so you never know, with Ronaldo they could go pretty far this year

Also, one has to see Fonte's time at West Ham to know he isn't at the level or either Otamendi or Rojo. Pepe, at 35 has his best years behind him. He's also no longer playing at a high level.

Neither would do well in a 3 at the back as Argentina played. Argentina's style would expose them more. There is a reason why Portugal play the way they do. Argentina need to find a system to suit their current players, rather than make it all about Messi.

..your side doesn’t have Ronaldo or Messi in?

Mr. Cups, I agree with more or less what you said. This Argentina side is poor. Messi has been part of a better Argentina sides than Ronaldo has been of Portugal sides. This world cup though, Portugal team isn't as bad as some think. I'd say they are better than Argentina.

KKKC best 11 without those two. Read the article.

Apparently there are only like 5 players under the age of 30 in this Argentina squad. I know they haven’t won the WC in a long time but growing up Argentina were only 2nd to Brazil for me in that aura they had as a total footballing team. Really seems the end of an era for them because they don’t seem to have many top players coming through. Dybala seems like all they’ve got left.

It's the lack of class midfielders that surprised me. They used to have so many talented players there.

Combining the “Messi-Ronaldo” theme with the “combined XI” model

Thank you, Clockwork. Such a masterpiece a d original idea deserves an award. .

comment by CurrentlyInChina (U11181)
posted 2 minutes ago
It's the lack of class midfielders that surprised me. They used to have so many talented players there.
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Pablo Aimar used to be one of my favourite players but never really fulfilled his potential,however the slow-as-a-carthorse but with amazing vision Juan Román Riquelme for Villareal is spoken about in Argentina still in the same breath as 'El Diego' Maradona!

Riquelme was quite good in the way Argentina were set up at the time and as well as Villareal. If he had pace, he'd have been at a top club. Barca had him but used him as a winger.

Portugal v Argentina would be interesting to watch.

Argentina certainly have major weaknesses but let's not forget that until the goalkeeping howler last night the Croatia game could have gone either way. Croatia (a very good side as well as a side with some fine individuals) were having slightly the better of it but both teams were getting chances. The 3-0 puts a misleadingly decisive complexion on the match. For that matter, Portugal could easily be on one point at the moment, had it not been for DDG's howler and if the run of the ball had favoured Morocco a bit.

Portugal v Argentina would be cagey, scrappy, with a few moments of attacking quality.

If you were one of ronaldo or messi, you'd rather play for portugal. Have a game plan and are a good counter attacking team. Leaves more space for Ronnie to do his damage.

comment by CurrentlyInChina (U11181)
posted 1 hour, 2 minutes ago
Also, one has to see Fonte's time at West Ham to know he isn't at the level or either Otamendi or Rojo. Pepe, at 35 has his best years behind him. He's also no longer playing at a high level.

Neither would do well in a 3 at the back as Argentina played. Argentina's style would expose them more. There is a reason why Portugal play the way they do. Argentina need to find a system to suit their current players, rather than make it all about Messi.
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Fonte and Pepe know there limitations. They are not a liability like Otamendi who has no defensive intelligence. Rojo is the worst out of the lot but he has come back from some bad injuries so will cut him slack.

Fonte and Pepe just stick to the basics which is to defend. They are also well protected by the midfield while watching Masc yesterday you can see he is nothing more than a has been.

Would definitely still have Pepe at the back over anything Argentina have.

I wonder why Argentina don’t line up their midfield as:

———Mascherano
Banega————Di Maria

Their problem is lack of quality and inability to get the ball into the forwards. At least with those three you’d expect more on the ball. Do Maria played that role for Madrid and showed some of his best form.

Bar the strikers, Argentina are woeful.

We have to disagree about Pepe and the Argentines CBs. I think Pepe of two years ago would be better, but he isn't as good as he was then. Put him into the Argentina side instead of either Otamendi or Rojo and he will struggle. Fonte even more so.

As for their midfield, Berbaking, that seems like a good fit. Although, Mascherano is past it and they really should be looking at a younger player to come in and do the role. You also have to consider how to set up/line up their forwards.

Argentina would do better if they realised that they were shiiiite. Portugal realised their limitations a long time ago and started to adopt something called tactics to account for this.

Last night was like putting a lion’s head on a mouse and still calling it a lion and letting it think it was still a lion. If it realised that there was no point in it having that scary head if it couldn’t do anything with it, due to it’s pathetic little body, then maybe it would have changed the way it approached fighting a perfectly normal, healthy hyena. Or opted for a different, if still limited body.

Portugal are more like a tiger’s head on an elephant. You can still use the elephant body to fend off the hyena, and you have that tiger’s head to do some damage from a good position if the hyena lets its guard down for a second. If Portugal had chased after the hyena with the elephant body and the tiger head then they would have been pretty ineffective. They know how to use the elephant body in the best way to get the best out of the tiger head.

I think the mouse body last night was paraplegic as well to be fair.

comment by Clockwork Red (U4892)
posted 1 hour, 36 minutes ago

Combining the “Messi-Ronaldo” theme with the “combined XI” model
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Every generation or so a man steps from the shadows and completely revolutionizes the way we think about the game.