Was David Moyes Right

On the contrary Phil, my "view on things" has been deliberately hypothetical. Yours on the other hand have not been. It is you who is trying to formulate an argument that states "had such and such not happened, then Everton would not have lost the game". My point is rather to say that no matter how we judge a ref's actual performance (and a ref's performance can always be criticised, indeed much more often than not is criticised), it is impossible to state what the outcome of any game would be had a different decision been made. It's for that reason that no one can say had such a decision been given (or not been given), then team x would (or would not) have won the game.

And I've cememted no claim of yours that Webb's performance was sub-standard. Sub-standard by who's standards? Yours? For every decision you feel he got wrong, I can point to another in which you'll agree he got right. For every decision that you felt went against Everton, I can point to one that I felt went against City. Again, that's what I mean about you (about fans in general) being selective.

And for that reason alone, it becomes immaterial whether any key moment occurred because of a particular decision. Simply because, it only ever becomes a "key moment" in hindsight. Had City not scored from the throw-in, then it wouldn't even enter your consciousness to debate it. After all, do you recall that other moment in the game when Everton did get a contentious throw-in (when it could have gone in City's favour) and nothing significant occured as a result of that? No, you don't, because we don't remember such moments (of which there are plenty (in any game)). Hindsight - it's a wonderful thing isn't it?

"so Webb's call on that was in line with 99.9% of all such decisions"

And again you've just defeated your own argument. Earlier in your post you label Webb's performance sub-standard. Here you have just set the standard. "Sketchy throw in decisions are usually given etc etc etc...". You've just said, to all intents and purposes, that such decisions are the norm, or in other words, the standard.

Have Everton ever had a key moment in a game in which a "contentious" decision went their way and they profitted from it? I would say, without doubt, that they have. In such an instance (if you're able to recall any), have you put any subsequent Everton victory down to a "poor ref performance"? I doubt that you have. Especially so if it was in a game that Everton had dominated overall and, on the balance of play, had been the better team and thus deserved their victory.

Well that was the case on Saturday. City were the better team. By far.

I can point to one that I felt went against City. Again, that's what I mean about you (about fans in general) being selective.

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So one against many then?

Also I feel we have been on the right side of a poor ref decision at Blackburn.

"So one against many then?"

Not quite what I mean. I should have been clearer, just to avoid the possibility of the pedant in you picking up on it:- "For one decision that you feel went against Everton, I can point to one decision that I feel went against City."

"Also I feel we have been on the right side of a poor ref decision at Blackburn"

It's a lot easier to say that in a game that you won. Now try one in a game in which you lost. Have you the capability to point to any moment in the City-Everton game in which a decision went in your favour? I'll give you a clue - there was one (rather obvious) incident of this. It'll be interesting to see if you are able (or willing) to cite it...

Bad refereeing decisions aginst us contributed to Mark Hughes getting the sack and cost us about 12 points a season alone. The FA owes us big.

Very biased comment there Inky, but I expect nothing less.

Ripleys cat is make a fair point Sweatband. As a neutral watching the game (even though I have a soft spot for Everton), no way did any of Webbs errors, of which there was few, did affect the game. The only two decisions that went against Everton was Rodwell getting wrongly booked and the afore mentioned body check. I though Webb did a good job, and not often do I say that!

By owe us big I mean that these things even themselves out. I can immediately think of 4 games over the last 3 seasons when we've been blatently robbed because of bad officals (Clattenburg, Lawton and Atkinson) but I'll admit we were lucky against Newcastle last season when we got a pen we shouldn't have had and they were denied a nail on penalty.

Every team in the team in the league can make these calls, even Utd!

However every team in the top 6 gets a referee bias for towards there teams, admittedly some teams more than others. However we really shouldnt be complaining as we are not that hard done by!

Can't disagree with that. The higher we've finished up the league, the more times we've been getting the rub of the green.

Definitely one of the best thing about being a Spurs fan these days

In years past we would never get a lucky decision our way against the likes of Liverpool. However last game of last season we got awarded a penalty that was a non penalty

Absolutely class

Maybe the City fans are right, these bad decisions do even out over time