How long do you dine out on past.......

*Valencia’s second.

comment by Anthony The King Elanga (U10026)
posted 9 minutes ago
No because you’ve used a timespan that does’t really fit with how competitive the league was at the time. Atleti had won it a few years before, and Madrid and Barca were not the established one and two that they’d become after that second title that Valencia won.

From Atleti’s title to Valencia’s Madrid had won three and Barca two. But look at who was finishing in the top two and the CL places, it was by no means the closed shop that it became when Rafa left Spain.

The job he did was impressive, but people Liverpool fans like to lionise it in a way that doesn’t really fit with what was happening in Spain at the time - Barca in particular were a facking mess and Madrid’s Galactico policy wasn’t all that good.

Simeone really broke up a duopoly, Liverpool fans act like what Rafa did was comparable when it wasn’t remotely.

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Right. Lots of comments about ‘Liverpool fans’ opinions so I’ll make one last point and leave it there because I suspect my club allegiances won’t allow for any agreement.

RM were winning CLs at the time of Valencia’s titles so they were still a very decent side. They won it in the season of Valencia’s first title.

I’m actually far from Rafa’s biggest fan. I think he was tactically very smart but his football was too often pragmatic and focused on the opposition rather than the talent we had at the time. But credit where due, he brought us a CL and two titles to Valencia.

It’s only Liverpool fans that really hype Rafa’s time there, though. Madrid were good in the CL but far from a dominant team in the league, shown by their league finishes at the time, it was a competitive league - Valencia were part of that strong league, as shown by their two CL runners up seasons, and finishing above Madrid and Barca in the league before that.

I’m not really sure what you are trying to argue, though. Madrid and Barca won things then but also had seasons where they struggled, and the competitive nature of the league allowed for others to take advantage of that. Rafa done a good job and delivered two league titles as a result, but the narrative around his achievements are quite different from what was actually happening in Spain at the time - and why I brought up the Simeone comparison, because Rafa has been compared to him despite the achievements not even being close.

It’s only Liverpool fans that really hype Rafa’s time there, though.
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What a load of crap tbh. Jose and Rafa were the most sought after managers by 2005 because of their exploits in Portugal and Spain respectively so its not just Liverpool fans. Barca and Madrid won La Liga before and in between Valencia wins, Madrid won multiple CL titles around same time.

Barca and Madrid were not weaker, the league was stronger than it's been since.

comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 1 hour, 33 minutes ago
comment by moreinjuredthanowen (U9641)
posted 7 hours, 26 minutes ago
Look, reputation and ability trump recently bought trophies.

Anchelotti waltzed into real madrid again because they knew he could handle the media and the pressures around that particular job.

He could easily be moved on in a year for all we know but he still got it and they are sitting unimpressively 4 points clear of seville in la liga and a country mile ahead of barca/atletico. The CL last 16 will decide v PSG.

Mourinho's problem is his reputation is not just as a serial winner but as a massive whinge bag and toy chucker so unlike anchelotti he is not seen as one who can handle it any more.

Conte is at spurs because he is seen as difficult.

Rafa benitez is not seen by anyone as an elite manager as he's had to hawk round china and the nether regions of england for many years. his time has well passed. again he did this to himself by looking difficult at valencia, LFC and inter. As a result his brief sojourns tino cheslea and real were greeted by fans who ddind't beleive he coudl do it and in the end no matter what was won or not won he was out.



Pep has the aura. Failure to win the CL has somehow not diminished that aura despite bayer and city now being 7 years and counting at winning domestic titles using dominant money positions.

Frankly klopp has that aura as LFC fans fell over themselves when he arrive and are still fawning all over him no matter what the results may be. He hasn't tarnished it yet with one bad season and several transfer windows of less than active work to keep up with the oil dopers.

tuchel is another, had to say how quite he has the rep he has having won very little but he is very much a defensive minds coach who won't take any guff so he comes across as again the man for the job (but is still getting sacked this summer)



in many of these "top clubs" managers come and go with 18 months to 2 years life span. Its a revolving door and the steady hand with good rep is more important than the big ego and flashy rep.
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This must be the reason Roy Hodgson keeps going. For having a rep for being such a thoroughly nice chap.

There I was MITO thinking the reason Rafa and Mourhino were no longer considered elite is because they stopped winning league titles or CL's many many many years ago. That's all that matters to the top clubs in Europe. Moreso the CL to many on the continent. I thought it was as simple as that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

But surely a real or a bayern or a psg etc take for granted they will win their domestic titles so having a difficult man in charge who causes you trouble is counter productive and esp if they are likely to react to press pressure

Anchelotti won nowt for a long time but it didn't stop real coming back for their ex manager.

If a psg, for example want to replace poch in the morning would they go for mourinho or would they think... hmm neymar, messi, all these egos and we throw that special on into that... erm no thanks.

Psg assume they will win in France. They don't need a troublesome manager that will cause chaos.

comment by Anthony The King Elanga (U10026)

Liverpool fans hype anything Benitez related. The number of times I've been told categorially he did a fantastic job for us

They’re like a facking cult.

Rafa was a good manager. He was never a popular appointment with the fans at Chelsea, which while I understand, I didn’t share. He did well for us during his short stint.

He did alright. Could've been worse, but bottled two relatively easy trophies (one of which we'd never won & we better win it this year dammit!).

I put him in the same category as Sarri, like a 3/5

comment by moreinjuredthanowen (U9641)
posted 21 hours, 42 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 1 hour, 33 minutes ago
comment by moreinjuredthanowen (U9641)
posted 7 hours, 26 minutes ago
Look, reputation and ability trump recently bought trophies.

Anchelotti waltzed into real madrid again because they knew he could handle the media and the pressures around that particular job.

He could easily be moved on in a year for all we know but he still got it and they are sitting unimpressively 4 points clear of seville in la liga and a country mile ahead of barca/atletico. The CL last 16 will decide v PSG.

Mourinho's problem is his reputation is not just as a serial winner but as a massive whinge bag and toy chucker so unlike anchelotti he is not seen as one who can handle it any more.

Conte is at spurs because he is seen as difficult.

Rafa benitez is not seen by anyone as an elite manager as he's had to hawk round china and the nether regions of england for many years. his time has well passed. again he did this to himself by looking difficult at valencia, LFC and inter. As a result his brief sojourns tino cheslea and real were greeted by fans who ddind't beleive he coudl do it and in the end no matter what was won or not won he was out.



Pep has the aura. Failure to win the CL has somehow not diminished that aura despite bayer and city now being 7 years and counting at winning domestic titles using dominant money positions.

Frankly klopp has that aura as LFC fans fell over themselves when he arrive and are still fawning all over him no matter what the results may be. He hasn't tarnished it yet with one bad season and several transfer windows of less than active work to keep up with the oil dopers.

tuchel is another, had to say how quite he has the rep he has having won very little but he is very much a defensive minds coach who won't take any guff so he comes across as again the man for the job (but is still getting sacked this summer)



in many of these "top clubs" managers come and go with 18 months to 2 years life span. Its a revolving door and the steady hand with good rep is more important than the big ego and flashy rep.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

This must be the reason Roy Hodgson keeps going. For having a rep for being such a thoroughly nice chap.

There I was MITO thinking the reason Rafa and Mourhino were no longer considered elite is because they stopped winning league titles or CL's many many many years ago. That's all that matters to the top clubs in Europe. Moreso the CL to many on the continent. I thought it was as simple as that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

But surely a real or a bayern or a psg etc take for granted they will win their domestic titles so having a difficult man in charge who causes you trouble is counter productive and esp if they are likely to react to press pressure

Anchelotti won nowt for a long time but it didn't stop real coming back for their ex manager.

If a psg, for example want to replace poch in the morning would they go for mourinho or would they think... hmm neymar, messi, all these egos and we throw that special on into that... erm no thanks.

Psg assume they will win in France. They don't need a troublesome manager that will cause chaos.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

The difference with Ancelotti is longevity. His last title was in 2017, but the bloke's been winning leagues and CL's for almost 20 years.

Mourhino and Rafa had shorter, unsustained periods of success, and these ended earlier than Carlo's.

I think there's a lot of truth to what you say about rep, I was being a bit flippant. There's no doubt Carlo is considered a steady ship, but not just a steady ship, he's a steady ship that's still capable of bringing success.

I think if both Jose and Rafa were more recent with their successes, they'd still be in demand with the top clubs.