Theres been a lot of talk about how Auld Walt is regarded as the greatest ever Rangers manager and he's gotten a lot of plaudits for winning the last few titles with apparent limited resources. That makes for a nice wee story of how it was one man against all the odds during Walts 2nd time in charge but one man who actually surpassed what Walt has done is Mr Jim McLean.
He won his clubs sole SPL title with next to no finances at his disposal...unlike Celtic and Rangers....he also remarkably took them to a European Cup semi-final as well as a UEFA Cup final.
Now given the circumstances both managers have worked under in their careers in Scotland...are wee Jim's achievements more impressive than Walters and..as a side note...if Walt deserves a knighthood...then surely wee Jim does too?
Walter Smith v Jim McLean
posted on 12/6/11
Since Jim McLean retired, no Celtic or Rangers success comes close to what he did during his time at Utd. While it's true it was a different era, Scottish football was much more competitive when he won the title and his achievements in Europe look more impressive as the years go on.
Smith benefited from Murray's generosity and the work Souness done before him in his first spell. If Celtic spent more than him during his second spell then it couldn't have been by too much. He was also extremely jammy to have been up against some of the worst Celtic managers ever.
posted on 12/6/11
We had a manager who won 6 trophies in 4 seasons and reached the last 16 of the CL twice....
And Celtic fans were leaving the building...ie...Some of us didn't think he was very good.
Me being one
posted on 12/6/11
"Since Jim McLean retired, no Celtic or Rangers success comes close to what he did during his time at Utd."______________
Well said Harvey. I should have added that wee Jims triumphs also overshadow any Celtic managers achievements since then too. Might have saved a few moans from a couple of the Rangers fans.
posted on 12/6/11
The only one who truly deserves a knighthood is Jock Stein whose achievements surpass the rest and whose influence is still felt through SAF. Any claims for others are nonsensical.
posted on 13/6/11
You must also remember that Jim turned down the job as rangers manager, and wattie was his apprentice for a few years at United.... wee Jims achievments for a club with the resources he had was superb, I doubt very much that wattie could have done the same with similar resources at any club!!!!!
posted on 13/6/11
Walter spent a fraction of what Celtic have during his second spell.
He has repeatedly had to sell his top players and has still won the league 3 times in a row. If you look at his net spend (only on transfers not including European income) he is only about £4-5m in the red. If you include European income then that is more than compensated for. Walter has actually brought in more than he has spent.
His second spell has been a tremendous display of football management only a bitter Celtic fan could argue otherwise.
There are times when Walter hasn't even been able to fill the bench or has had to play untried youngsters in big games. And still we beat a Celtic team that was mean to be younger, fitter, stronger etc.
Jim McLean was a great manager in his day but I'm not convinced his style would work in the modern game. Whereas I'm sure the likes of Stein could still do a job.
posted on 13/6/11
'Walter spent a fraction of what Celtic have during his second spell.'
Utter pash,£40million a fraction of what we've spend aye?
posted on 13/6/11
Utter pash,£40million a fraction of what we've spend aye?
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I'll say it again for the clearly dimwitted posters:
HIS NET SPEND WAS less than £5m.
Yes he may have spent £40m on transfers but he made almost as much by selling players. He also brought plenty of revenue in from European runs. In other words he more than covered what he spent. Why is that so hard to understand?
posted on 13/6/11
mclean is the better manager for sure its that simple, smiths record outside of scotland isnt great. I could win the league with one of the OF. Winning the spl if your an OF manager is hardly an achievement.
posted on 22/6/11
It could only be truely compared had Walter managed a team in Scotland....outwith the Old Firm and given he did not......
If you manage one of the Old Firm you have a 50/50 chance of winning the SPL, ceratinly in recent years.
Jim....and lets not forget Alex Ferguson...broke the Old Firm monopoly and made the 'Cornershop' team known throughout the world. In Jim, we had a manager who ran the club, from bottom to top, a man who turned down Rangers approach to become their manager, because of his love of United and I suspect, because he would not have been the same manager hah he had money to spend!
As I say, comparisons are hard, because circumstances are so different. If it is down to who is the greatest Scottish manager....then there can be no arguements....Alex Ferguson is that man, because he has achieved greatness at Aberdeen and then proven himself over 25 years with Man Utd. Again, we cannot compare Wee Jim because he was loyal to one club.
Few managers have achieved what Jim did with a club like United though and I am sure he would have been honoured....had it not been for that brilliant, brilliant right hook with the BBC reporter, lol.
Whatever our, or other supporters thoughts are to the greatest, We Jim will always be THE GREATEST DUNDEE UNITED manager of all time and there can be no arguements with that.