Firstly, I am going to put it out there that I am a fan of using technology to get things right. However, I have now come to realise that it's coming at the cost of the joy of celebrating a goal. The thing that we all wait for in games.
A possible solution perhaps is to only use VAR when the decision has gone against the attacking side.
For example if a goal is scored and it's awarded on the pitch by the officials then the goal stands. It doesn't matter if an attacker was offside/ball brushed his arm etc.
VAR only to come into play if a goal/penalty etc isn't awarded but it should have been.
I know defenders amongst us perhaps won't be too pleased with this but it would at least give us back that moment when a goal is scored. At present you always think "Is that going to be disallowed for something". I don't think that's healthy for the game.
What says the collective JA606 mind?
EDIT: I know it's still not ideal but my thinking is that it would at least favour the attacking team.
VAR - a possible tweak?
posted on 7/11/23
comment by A Catalyst For Change (U7080)
posted 11 minutes ago
Probably should be specially trained VAR officials who are not linked to the ref fraternity at all, then we avoid them protecting their mates issue. Maybe a time limit as well. If it’s so close that it’s takes 10mins to see, it probably didn’t really give an advantage anyway, especially in offsides
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Agree with all of that
posted on 7/11/23
comment by Pun (U21588)
posted 13 minutes ago
Simply offsides, and if it's marginal give the advantage to the attacker rather than checking hairlines, clear up the handball rules and mic up the refs.
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I've never really understood the argument that natural justice means not giving a player offside if he's only a bit offside. If you're using the technology to make offside calls more accurate, it's going to measure it far more accurately than a human eye can. If you think some calls are too close and want to give the attacked e.g. 10cm of benefit of doubt, that very precise line will still be drawn, and we'll have arguments about whether the decision was unfair because the player was either not quite offside enough or a bit too offside.
As per the above post: just get AI to do this job and you have basically instantaneous decisions conveyed the the linesman.
posted on 7/11/23
Bin it, and strip the titles from all PL clubs who have won the league while it's been in use, just for a laugh
posted on 7/11/23
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 12 minutes ago
It's an interesting idea, Diafol. It would indeed solve that 'betrayed celebration' emotional deficit. As others have said, it would come at the cost of failing to correct injustices, sometimes egregious and costly mistakes. At that point I kind of wonder whether we're defeating the original purpose of VAR. The other thing is that you may have referees knowing that only mistakes that ruled out goals will be corrected, and therefore being more inclined to call a potential foul they're not sure about. So we may end up with the joy of the goal being interrupted anyway.
I honestly think the keys to making VAR work better are simpler:
1) Imposing better standards through accountability and transparency. Demand consistency and accuracy from the video refs. Scrutinise their work through proper professional channels, give them the technological support and clarity of leadership they require. Pay well to ensure quality candidates and relegate those who don't perform well.
2) Apply AI wherever it can work to give instantaneous verdicts on any non-subjective judgements. We saw how AI for offsides and balls crossing the line worked pretty flawlessly and rapidly at the World Cup. That should be applied universally at a minimum. It can be extended to the touchlines at the sides of the pitch. It Soon it should also work to tell us more accurately than the refs whether a player got a touch on the ball. It won't replace humans on questions of intent, excessive force, and whether a goal scoring chance was denied, but it can probably collate the footage from different angles faster than a human video editor can, and it could certainly project the respective trajectories / velocities of players and ball after a challenge. Using AI to enhance human decision making seems like a no-brainer.
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I realise it's a halfway house idea and that the ultimate solution is to embrace the AI aspect (why PL don't I don't know) and have proper pros using the tech.
The reason for my suggestion is that we may be some way away from the above at present and that my suggestion would be quite simple to to put in place.
It would lead to perhaps more cautious assistant refs but then that would fall under my VAR intervention only coming in when it negatively affects the attacking side.
I've always been in favour of VAR but recently it has spoiled my enjoyment of the game a bit. It's just taking far too long!
posted on 7/11/23
theres a simple solution.
the refs should engage their brain
posted on 7/11/23
What might help is actually have tech people who train refs in VAR and who ever trains Ref to train the tech people. Improve the human aspect of VAR. Also allow some things to be automated but with the option of a human overriding the decision. Use a bit of AI and allow it to collect data from each match it's used in to allow it to make a better decisions. This will then reduce the amount of human error taking place.
I can't believe the shoddy handling if VAR. It's like these guys were given a 1 day training course (generally a 2 hour one) and that's it. On going training should be a must here.
posted on 7/11/23
The issue her3 is PGMOL and the boys club who dont want to open the door to them losing thier power and status. They know that adding AI will eventually lead to them losing their jobs, and by giving VAR more authority then the on pitch ref, younger less experienced guys would come into the game and the salaries will go down. It's all about hording as much money as they can, while they can, and being relevant for as long as they can.
posted on 7/11/23
VAR is as good as the weakest link...the human factor getting all opinionated over things that should be clear cut.
The two fackin obvious Spurs red cards (prior to the two inevitable Spurs red cards) were a perfect example yesterday
AI will learn & take over eventually
posted on 7/11/23
comment by Taki Minamino (U20650)
posted 2 hours, 6 minutes ago
theres a simple solution.
the refs should engage their brain
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As daft and flippant this sounds, its a very good idea. It would solve half the problems we have with VAR
posted on 8/11/23
VAR is no more of problem for the game than just relying on the subjective judgement of the three match officials used to be.
Indeed, the time taken to make a judgement using VAR is worth it. Referees and assistants got far more calls wrong than VAR ever could.
The problem is the same as it always has been, and that is there is far too much in a game of football that requires judgement. Some of which is unmeasurable by humans - no matter how much time they have.
I've long been an advocate of getting rid of the concept of 'offside' completely. It's both pointless and way too difficult to get right - and as humans get quicker it'll only become even more difficult to judge.
Similarly, hand ball rules are ridiculous when intent/non-intent becomes part of a judgement call.
Intent or otherwise needs to be ignored.
Any ball and hand/arm contact needs to result in a free kick regardless.