Are we missing Fred?

comment by FFS Mike. (U1170)
posted 7 minutes ago
Just seen this on Twitter, not fact checking it as I cba. But fck it.

Man Utd have started 31 different back lines in 43 matches this season:

1.AWB, Varane, Martinez, Shaw
2.AWB, Varane, Martinez, Dalot
3.AWB, Lindelof, Martinez, Dalot
4.Dalot, Lindelof, Martinez, Reguilon
5.AWB, Lindelof, Martinez, Reguilon
6.Dalot, Lindelof, Evans, Reguilon
7.AWB, Lindelof, Evans, Reguilon
8.Dalot, Varane, Maguire, Amrabat
9.Dalot, Varane, Lindelof, Amrabat
10.Dalot, Maguire, Evans, Lindelof
11.Dalot, Varane, Evans, Lindelof
12.Dalot, Varane, Maguire, Reguilon
13.Dalot, Maguire, Lindelof, Reguilon
14.Dalot, Maguire, Lindelof, Shaw
15.AWB, Maguire, Lindelof, Shaw
16.AWB, Maguire, Shaw, Dalot
17.Dalot Maguire, Shaw, Reguilon
18.Dalot, Maguire, Varane, Shaw
19.Dalot, Evans, Varane, Shaw
20.AWB, Maguire, Evans, Dalot
21.AWB, Kambwala, Evans, Shaw
22.AWB, Varane, Evans, Dalot
23.Dalot, Varane, Martinez, Shaw
24.Dalot, Maguire, Martinez, Shaw
25.Dalot, Varane, Maguire, Shaw
26.Dalot, Varane, Maguire, Lindelof
27.Dalot, Lindelof, Varane, Amrabat
28.Dalot, Varane, Evans, Lindelof
29.Dalot, Lindelof, Varane, AWB
30.AWB, Maguire, Varane, Dalot
31.Dalot, Kambwala, Maguire, AWB

From RB, RCB, LCB, LB

This Doesn’t include times where injuries have caused backline to change in game. E.g Kambwala coming on at RB, or Bruno playing CB in FA cup vs Pool.
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That’s amazing.

comment by FFS Mike. (U1170)
posted 24 minutes ago
Just seen this on Twitter, not fact checking it as I cba. But fck it.

Man Utd have started 31 different back lines in 43 matches this season:

1.AWB, Varane, Martinez, Shaw
2.AWB, Varane, Martinez, Dalot
3.AWB, Lindelof, Martinez, Dalot
4.Dalot, Lindelof, Martinez, Reguilon
5.AWB, Lindelof, Martinez, Reguilon
6.Dalot, Lindelof, Evans, Reguilon
7.AWB, Lindelof, Evans, Reguilon
8.Dalot, Varane, Maguire, Amrabat
9.Dalot, Varane, Lindelof, Amrabat
10.Dalot, Maguire, Evans, Lindelof
11.Dalot, Varane, Evans, Lindelof
12.Dalot, Varane, Maguire, Reguilon
13.Dalot, Maguire, Lindelof, Reguilon
14.Dalot, Maguire, Lindelof, Shaw
15.AWB, Maguire, Lindelof, Shaw
16.AWB, Maguire, Shaw, Dalot
17.Dalot Maguire, Shaw, Reguilon
18.Dalot, Maguire, Varane, Shaw
19.Dalot, Evans, Varane, Shaw
20.AWB, Maguire, Evans, Dalot
21.AWB, Kambwala, Evans, Shaw
22.AWB, Varane, Evans, Dalot
23.Dalot, Varane, Martinez, Shaw
24.Dalot, Maguire, Martinez, Shaw
25.Dalot, Varane, Maguire, Shaw
26.Dalot, Varane, Maguire, Lindelof
27.Dalot, Lindelof, Varane, Amrabat
28.Dalot, Varane, Evans, Lindelof
29.Dalot, Lindelof, Varane, AWB
30.AWB, Maguire, Varane, Dalot
31.Dalot, Kambwala, Maguire, AWB

From RB, RCB, LCB, LB

This Doesn’t include times where injuries have caused backline to change in game. E.g Kambwala coming on at RB, or Bruno playing CB in FA cup vs Pool.
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Mind boggling stuff!

comment by The Process (U20671)
posted 24 minutes ago
comment by Vengeance of Bao Bun (U23079)
posted 4 hours, 12 minutes ago
Casemiro's post match interview with ESPN Brazil makes interesting reading. He makes no reference to his own abysmal form, maybe if he did it would highlight the very point everyone is making, he is big part of the issue. Maybe not fighting for honours means his heart is simply not in it, it shows! .

"It's difficult. This is the point that bothers me most about not fighting for titles," Casemiro told ESPN Brazil after Sunday's clash with Liverpool.

"Being 20 points behind first place. Sometimes, I can't even sleep to try to think about doing something different. It's reality. There's no point in thinking about title or Champions League places, we need to think about today's games."

"We need to think about the day to day, we had the opportunity to score nine points in the last few games and we scored two. We were upset. We have to think game by game and focus on the next match, against Bournemouth."
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Rubbish. The signs were there that he was in massive decline as soon as he put on a United shirt.
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That's why most REAL fans weren't too distraught to see him go. Real laughed all the way to the bank in fact!

comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 4 hours, 41 minutes ago
RBW, I go back to my initial point: you are basically arguing that Casemiro's performance level is so bad that there's no justification for him being on the pitch and therefore it can't be down to injury. I'm saying if his performances don't justify being selected, it doesn't matter whether it's because he is being hampered by injury or it's laziness or that's the extent to which he can run these days.

As for the sarcastic comment about your match-going fan status, it wasn't a gratuitous barb. You made the point that you see more of the game than us because you're at the stadium, and that justified your diagnosis of Casemiro being lazy. Now, I know myself the difference in how much of the total picture we see when we're in the stands compared to watching on TV, as (believe it or not) I've attended many live matches over the years. So I can appreciate that you'll see more of Casemiro's off the ball work than I saw on Sky. What I dispute is that seeing him in the ground as opposed to on telly puts you in a superior position to judge why his movement is sluggish and his passing sloppy. So the opinion you hold that's based on observation live at the match seems to be the consensus view, while your assertion that it's a question of motivation, not physical issues, doesn't seem to be something that anyone could discern, either relying on the wide view or the close up.
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do you ever stop and read back the drivel that you compose sometimes?

I explained to you that because I attend football games it does NOT make me superior to those that don't. Please respect that.
You are suggesting that I am claiming that I am in a superior position to JUDGE why his passing was sloppy and his movement sluggish just because I was watching from the stands. I have as much idea or evidence to judge why his passing was sloppy and his movement sluggish as much as you had whilst watching on your television, which is actually very little. This morning you claimed it was because he was playing with an injury. I suggested that it was because more like he was a lazy tw@t. So, I disagreed with you. That’s where we really are on this.

And that fact that I am a United supporter who goes to games has nothing to do with it whatsosver. This is schoolyard stuff RR. I'd like to think we are both above this.

My brother and I were talking about this as well. Yes, he gave the ball away a lot but he helped track runners and close people down.

We do need combative midfielders and a physical presence in midfield. It is far too easy to saunter through our midfield.

comment by RB&W -Same Place-Same Club-Same Man (U21434)
posted 9 hours, 34 minutes ago
I explained to you that because I attend football games it does NOT make me superior to those that don't. Please respect that.
You are suggesting that I am claiming that I am in a superior position to JUDGE why his passing was sloppy and his movement sluggish just because I was watching from the stands. I have as much idea or evidence to judge why his passing was sloppy and his movement sluggish as much as you had whilst watching on your television, which is actually very little. This morning you claimed it was because he was playing with an injury. I suggested that it was because more like he was a lazy tw@t. So, I disagreed with you. That’s where we really are on this.

And that fact that I am a United supporter who goes to games has nothing to do with it whatsosver. This is schoolyard stuff RR. I'd like to think we are both above this.

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It's not schoolyard stuff because my intention isn't to antagonise you, RBW. In the course of this thread you've mentioned that your observations are informed by seeing Casemiro's movement off the ball, not just what's shown on camera. And then that your main observation is that his issue is laziness, not playing through an injury. The reason I've picked up on this is because I don't think you have a basis for your diagnosis that it's a motivation issue rather than a physical one. And I don't understand why you mentioned the fact that you see stuff that those of us who were in the stadium didn't see unless you felt it was relevant to the comments you were making. As I said, if Casemiro being a bit of a passenger were a point of dispute rather than one of consensus, then it would be highly relevant to mention that you saw more of the game than we did. If you just threw it in there that you were at the match and thus benefitted from a more complete view without any connection to the point you were arguing, then so be it.

comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by RB&W -Same Place-Same Club-Same Man (U21434)
posted 9 hours, 34 minutes ago
I explained to you that because I attend football games it does NOT make me superior to those that don't. Please respect that.
You are suggesting that I am claiming that I am in a superior position to JUDGE why his passing was sloppy and his movement sluggish just because I was watching from the stands. I have as much idea or evidence to judge why his passing was sloppy and his movement sluggish as much as you had whilst watching on your television, which is actually very little. This morning you claimed it was because he was playing with an injury. I suggested that it was because more like he was a lazy tw@t. So, I disagreed with you. That’s where we really are on this.

And that fact that I am a United supporter who goes to games has nothing to do with it whatsosver. This is schoolyard stuff RR. I'd like to think we are both above this.

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It's not schoolyard stuff because my intention isn't to antagonise you, RBW. In the course of this thread you've mentioned that your observations are informed by seeing Casemiro's movement off the ball, not just what's shown on camera. And then that your main observation is that his issue is laziness, not playing through an injury. The reason I've picked up on this is because I don't think you have a basis for your diagnosis that it's a motivation issue rather than a physical one. And I don't understand why you mentioned the fact that you see stuff that those of us who were in the stadium didn't see unless you felt it was relevant to the comments you were making. As I said, if Casemiro being a bit of a passenger were a point of dispute rather than one of consensus, then it would be highly relevant to mention that you saw more of the game than we did. If you just threw it in there that you were at the match and thus benefitted from a more complete view without any connection to the point you were arguing, then so be it.
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we just disagree RR. You are not very good when someone disagrees with you RR.

This can go on for ever because you wont give it up will you. My final words on this are...

Supporters in the stadiums do see stuff on the pitch that you cant appreciate on the TV. Most football fans know this. Including yourself.

You are not the only fan on here who has a go at match goers and calls them out as assuming they are superior or the bestest fans, top reds etc etc yawn frankly. Many think we are thick because we watch games. Imagine been a football fan on an internat page dedicated to MUFC and having to explain myself for attending games. Ged over it!

Actually Casemiro has broken his silence about his and Uniteds poor performances recently. He doesnt mention any secret injury and says that 'Being 20 points behind first place. Sometimes I can't even sleep to try to think about doing something different. It's reality.' 'The game [vs. Liverpool] was very fast-paced and well played. A classic. We were playing against one of the leaders of the competition and who is going through a good moment. We responded well.

'Both teams had opportunities. The game was good. At home we are strong, but we played against a great team. We have to think about the next match.'

Make of that as you probably will.

End of convesration.

OK, RBW, happy to finish this conversation, but since you introduced some new accusations, I'll answer them with my final observations:

"You won't give up will you" - I guess I can get a touch of the Winstons on some subjects, but I think it's also true to say that you are liable to get defensive and touchy if someone picks apart your statements, and that's also a part of why these exchanges sometimes get prolonged.

"You are not the only fan on here who has a go at match goers and calls them out as assuming they are superior or the bestest fans, top reds etc etc yawn frankly. Many think we are thick because we watch games." I don't think anyone believes or has ever suggested that match-going fans are thick. And I for one certainly don't have a go at match-going supporters as a whole. There are some members of this forum who occasionally have suggested that they their views have more weight as real supporters or because they get to see the game in the stadium. I don't have any problem poking fun in those instances, and when I see claims made without any supporting evidence, it tends to bring out the aforementioned Winston in me.

"Make of that as you probably will." Regarding Casemiro's quote, I don't really see anything there that supports any of the three hypotheses about the reason for his lacklustre movement.

Anyway, sorry I've irritated you yet again. Have a good day.

The problem with what match going fans (a fair few of them to be honest) see is that they don’t have much of a clue about football. Busby is a classic example of this.

No different to some of the daft comments you see from fans watching it on TV.