No we’re not

We get overrun in midfield because of the disconnected system from front to back, rather than due to any particular individual (with some caveats to that I should add).

As I said in the match thread, you could put Gattuso, Keane and Kante into our midfield at their respective peaks and they'd all be stranded in no-man's land as they watch their forwards runs off to press lost causes, often half-heartedly and in few numbers, whilst their defenders stay deep. Our CM's don't know whether to press or sit and sometimes do both at the same time. You simply can't defend that much space in midfield, no matter how good you are.

Controlling midfield in and out of possession is about the collective. We're a mish-mash of high press, mid block and lower block and as a result we open ourselves up every time the press is beaten (which is constantly). We also can't keep the ball, which sees us repeatedly put ourselves back under pressure through too many transitions in the oppositions favour. Team's are vulnerable when they lose the ball because players are out of their best defensive positions, and we lose it all the time.

Fred would be chasing shadows as much as anyone (though maybe slightly less than Casemiro in his concrete boots).

I will never miss South Americans.

What a sad state of affairs it is though when the Fred we had is probably more useful than the Casemiro we now have. He looked like a retired footballer today coming back for Soccer Aid. Horrendous.

It is not simply down to one player, but more how we play. It doesn't help that Casemiro doesn't have the engine anymore, so to that extent Fred would be better, but it's the fact that we don't chase back hard enough, we don't cut down space, we don't communicate or read situations well.
Players need to take responsibility, but ultimately it's up to ETH to instruct his players - it's been like this all season and it hasn't improved.

The shape of the team is supposed to come from the manager and his coaching team.

I have genuinely never seen us with a worse shape on the pitch in all my life as a Utd fan. It's football you see on a local field in kids football.

Can't blame injuries either as the front 6 today is arguably our strongest lineup.

The coaching is non existent. Time to end this madness in summer and go find someone who understands how to change this.

The passing would have been the same, substandard so no we're not missing Fred. Maybe his energy and enthusiasm.

Great article.

Will wind all those up who want to forget the Ole years.

Fred Matic Pogba MCT etc was better coached in that midfield so didnt go missing as much as the CMF we have today, Which any side can run a coach and horse through at will.

comment by Glazers Out (SE85) (U21241)
posted 24 minutes ago
I will never miss South Americans.

What a sad state of affairs it is though when the Fred we had is probably more useful than the Casemiro we now have. He looked like a retired footballer today coming back for Soccer Aid. Horrendous.


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We've gone from Pastor Fred to Past His Best.

We are a little tbh, but that's more a reflection of how we've recruited. Fred wasn't good enough, but I'd have him every single day of the week over Amrabat and this current version of Casemiro.

Everything BK says is correct, but it doesn't excuse what we've seen in possession from Casemiro this season.

comment by Clockwork Red: Amrabats in the Belfry (U4892)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by Glazers Out (SE85) (U21241)
posted 24 minutes ago
I will never miss South Americans.

What a sad state of affairs it is though when the Fred we had is probably more useful than the Casemiro we now have. He looked like a retired footballer today coming back for Soccer Aid. Horrendous.
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He was like Lee Mack in Soccer Aid

He was another one that that should not have been let go. At the time he was there he was certainly more constructive and useful than some of those that stayed (and are still there).

Just like Pogba, he was never used in his best position, because the club refused to fill the right positions/role (at he same) with suitable players. Instead choosing to rely on expecting good players to be good in positions/roles they were not suited for. They still are.

Did Fred get back to you?

Hope you found your way if not

Yes!

We miss someone who is tenacious and good at winning the ball back, none of which our current lot can do.

Definitely do not miss Fred. That's just nostalgia taking over the mind

Far too inconsistent to be missed much. On his day a great option but it rarely happened. We’ve been outplayed and overrun in midfield for years, during the time Fred was at the club and before. It’s pathetic how poor our midfield had been over the past decade, even during Fergusons last years it should have been a lot better.

We don’t miss Fred specifically, we do lack players with his physicality. We look very unfit, slow and lack tenacity in general.

comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 8 hours, 39 minutes ago
We get overrun in midfield because of the disconnected system from front to back, rather than due to any particular individual (with some caveats to that I should add).

As I said in the match thread, you could put Gattuso, Keane and Kante into our midfield at their respective peaks and they'd all be stranded in no-man's land as they watch their forwards runs off to press lost causes, often half-heartedly and in few numbers, whilst their defenders stay deep. Our CM's don't know whether to press or sit and sometimes do both at the same time. You simply can't defend that much space in midfield, no matter how good you are.

Controlling midfield in and out of possession is about the collective. We're a mish-mash of high press, mid block and lower block and as a result we open ourselves up every time the press is beaten (which is constantly). We also can't keep the ball, which sees us repeatedly put ourselves back under pressure through too many transitions in the oppositions favour. Team's are vulnerable when they lose the ball because players are out of their best defensive positions, and we lose it all the time.

Fred would be chasing shadows as much as anyone (though maybe slightly less than Casemiro in his concrete boots).
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This

We're missing good midfielders, that's what we're missing.

Berba is 100% correct but it is also true that we identify/buy poorly.

I think Mount was bought as the replacement for Fred who would, like Fred, run all day and win the ball high up, but bring a bit more technical security and tactical IQ. Obviously, we haven't seen whether he would make a difference to our rest defence if he had bedded in across the whole season. I definitely accept the point that team structure/tactics are the primary driver of our issues, but personnel, tactics and collective implementation of tactics are interconnected. If you have a midfield that has more running power and is more savvy about pressing, I think you're more likely to see the whole team committing more confidently to a high press - and pushing up behind a counterattack to regain the ball if it breaks down. The same applies to having a more settled, confident and athletic defence.

Casemiro has been very disappointing this season, but I do wonder whether there's something more localised at play than "his legs have gone", e.g. maybe he is playing through a slight hamstring issue and he knows he can't push beyond a certain point. We've seen plenty of players look like they don't have the legs they used to have - and then a few weeks later they can sprint again. So it's possible that Casemiro, while in obvious physical decline, hasn't totally and irrevocably dropped off that cliff.

Finally, I do personally miss Fred. Mainly for that smile.

We do miss Fred because he was the best cm we had at covering the space.

The Casemiro issue is a very strange one, he’s a year old, but that isn’t significant to the point he literally cannot run. Maybe he is playing through an injury as RR says.

I would be very suprised if Casemiro was either being selected by ETH (or him wanting to play) with an unresolved injury that affects his mobility to the point that he can barely break out from a walk into a canter.

This doesnt also answer why he also seems to struggle to make basic forward pass completions in central areas around the edge of the box as we saw many times yesterday.

I agree that Fred would be more useful in today's set-up because of his own personal tenacity and willingness to make efforts in the central areas of the pitch that Uniteds current players give the ball away so mercilessly in, these days.

We miss attackers who are willing to work hard and defend, midfielders who track back, proper cohesion in the team which defends and attacks as a team - miss Fred? Proper coaching is what we miss.
Every game we give up about a thousand shots etc against us, we never control a game, even the ones we win.
I genuinely don't think we have terrible players - no matter how good players are, they still need coaching and told what to do, otherwise they are just a bunch of players relying on individual pieces of brilliance or hope that it comes right on the day - that's what we are