A few thoughts that haven't quite coalesced:
- Amad (as discussed on Robb's thread below) breaking through as a full member of the senior squad, offering dribbling, two-footedness, creativity when drifting inside, and an eye for a quick exchange of passes.
- Zirkzee emerging as quite a distinctive and (to my eyes) impressive player who can knit an attack together with hold-up play, skill and interplay.
- Mazraoui providing technical accomplishment and tactical intelligence as a right back who is comfortable overlapping and underlapping.
- The still unfolding potential of Kobbie.
- Bruno's magic (which so far doesn't seem to have developed a strong understanding with Zirkzee, but early days).
...It seems to me we're starting to see a core of players who - if they are coached well - combine in really attractive interchanges. This has been picked up by the football writer Jamie Hamilton. Hamilton is the guy who has been writing quite obsessively over the last few years about 'relationism' in football as an alternative/antidote to the now standard model of positionism, in which strict rules govern spatial distribution of players on the pitch. Unlike the positional football of Guardiola, etc., relational football emphasises the interpersonal collaboration of players, working on their ability to improvise solutions and to read each other's intentions. Fernando Diniz's Fluminense side is an extreme example of this approach; Ancelotti's Madrid is an example of a team which is more relationist / less dogmatically positionist than most elite clubs.
Anyway, in this Twitter thread, Hamilton suggests that with Zirkzee as a fulcrum, United have the ingredients to potentially become 'tactically the most interesting team in the PL': https://twitter.com/stirling_j/status/1835615355965722763
This is conjecture, of course, and we don't know whether ETH has any interest in becoming tactically interesting. He's certainly not ideologically committed against positional principles, and supposedly drills the team with automatisms (choreographed collective movements). On the other hand, his work at Ajax suggests that with the right players at his disposal, he allowed the players to spontaneously interchange on the pitch and break out of shape in a way that Guardiola would probably discourage. Hamilton links to an article in Spanish (the machine translation was adequate for me) that analyses ETH's Ajax. If nothing else, I recommend scrolling down to watch the video of a lovely counter-attack against Juventus in the course of that run to CL semi-final: https://www.ole.com.ar/tactica/ajax-ataque-revelacion-champions_0_E-FFOwf6_.html
Are we on the verge of being interesting?
posted on 17/9/24
RBW, I don't suppose managers go into abstract theory when coaching players. It's more a question of what they emphasise in their coaching and the types of drills they do. A positionist will have lots and lots of work on positioning and collective movement, often including drills where they don't use a ball. A relationist coach might do a lot more work getting players exchanges of one-twos at close quarters.
Talking about it in the abstract is very dry, I accept that!
posted on 17/9/24
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 12 minutes ago
RBW, I don't suppose managers go into abstract theory when coaching players. It's more a question of what they emphasise in their coaching and the types of drills they do. A positionist will have lots and lots of work on positioning and collective movement, often including drills where they don't use a ball. A relationist coach might do a lot more work getting players exchanges of one-twos at close quarters.
Talking about it in the abstract is very dry, I accept that!
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Well as you say in the Op its actually quite bold and makes United an interesting work in progress to watch. If nothing else. But hopefully it can also change our fortunes regarding results.
posted on 17/9/24
Put the best XI out every game, in a basic 442, 'shape' then United would be not just "interesting" but also more than a match for every other EPL team (bar City, of course, that have just about every position covered twice).
That "best XI" would mean NEVER starting with Rashford, Dalot or Casemiro and I just cannot wait to see that happen.
Thankfully Mc Tominay has gone off to find his lower level, but that's countered by the crass loss of AWB - the latter decision being a ridiculous one under the circumstances.
Hojlund and Zirkzee up front would be the "United way", Mount and Fernandes in central midfield. Get Shaw back full time (fingers crossed on that one). And the season might start to look interesting.
Other than that kind of approach, the inclusion of the three genuinely inadequates (at this level) mentioned above will lead to another polarised season.
United have nothing to fear from their traditional rivals in AFC and LFC, only MCFC and CFC (if they get their act together) are equipped to be top three 'shoe-ins'.
I pointed out last season (and before that) that I just could not watch any match if Lindelof, Mctominay and all Dalot started. It's not so bad now, but I still feel queasy over any line-up with all of Rashford, Dalot and Casemiro in. It will struggle to win and will also struggle not to lose ...
posted on 17/9/24
Thanks for your input, IAmMe
posted on 17/9/24
Other clubs are definitely remaining interested in Eth continuing his career at united, that's for sure.
We are so easy to be got at, even by really poor teams. See Southampton as the most recent piece of evidence for example.
Coventry made a mockery of us last year, for more evidence.
I don't find us interesting, I find us a frustrating mess of a team that just doesn't know what they are doing quite a lot of the time.
As per first paragraph, definitely interesting for fans who want to see United fail, indeed.
posted on 17/9/24
Ali, I guess a lot depends on whether, as fans, we're fixated on the big picture of 'Are we winning games?' and 'Are we good or bad?' As I've written recently, as I get older, while I really want to see us win games and look like a good team, I'm also more and more interested in sub-plots. Things like seeing a young player make his way into senior football, and things like intriguing tactical shifts.
posted on 17/9/24
RR “ I have this beautiful, fragile dream, I really believe in this delicate but amazing dream represented by this fragile glass ball”
Ali/gregg “fack your dream, here’s reality” crunch..smash
RR “ my dream..noooo”
posted on 18/9/24
It hurts because it's true!
posted on 19/9/24
comment by Baz tard - Ineos your face (U19119)
posted 1 day, 14 hours ago
RR “ I have this beautiful, fragile dream, I really believe in this delicate but amazing dream represented by this fragile glass ball”
Ali/gregg “fack your dream, here’s reality” crunch..smash
RR “ my dream..noooo”
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posted on 29/9/24
I keep thinking about this article everytime I watch yet another utterley drab performance from United.
All that analysis and Van der Ven just jogs through the entire team