Madders Gave The Game Away.

comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 2 hours, 4 minutes ago
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 25 minutes ago
comment by Automatic For The People (U21889)
posted 13 seconds ago
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 28 minutes ago
comment by Automatic For The People (U21889)
posted 44 minutes ago
comment by Sir Tottenham of Hotspur (U17379)
posted 4 minutes ago
If it was simply a case of us “being worked out” then why did we go 2-0 up in the first place? Why did we go 3-0 up at united? Obviously theirs is large parts of Angeball that does work and it leads to us totally dominating and going ahead.
But it’s the momentum shifts that are the issue, we panic and we lose control of the game.
That’s not being worked out, that’s just players not being mentally at it and not savvy enough to see the game through
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Well sure looked like they worked us out by the second half to me.

But you have your own take clearly.
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more likely that Ange's gameplan is very high energy demanding, and when the legs start to go it becomes less and less effective as the game goes on and more spaces and the amount of time to react to things increases and become more exploitable.
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Ok, so should he maybe not take that into account?
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100%, I was agreeing with you earlier. He needs to learn to kill a game off when leading and keep control of the game. I was defending you previously as that doesnt mean "park the bus" like others suggested.
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WTF...how can Ange "kill the game off". Thats on teh players to make their dominance count.

As for being tired by half time 2 months into a seasonFatigue may be a longer term issue with this style but its not really a factor now, with players the majority of which played no more than 15 minutes mid week.
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I never said they were tired by half time. You keep jumping to the very extremities of peoples opinions.

I said the intensity isnt the same. And as such is plan A isnt as effective and more open to exploiting.

comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 2 hours, 4 minutes ago
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 25 minutes ago
comment by Automatic For The People (U21889)
posted 13 seconds ago
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 28 minutes ago
comment by Automatic For The People (U21889)
posted 44 minutes ago
comment by Sir Tottenham of Hotspur (U17379)
posted 4 minutes ago
If it was simply a case of us “being worked out” then why did we go 2-0 up in the first place? Why did we go 3-0 up at united? Obviously theirs is large parts of Angeball that does work and it leads to us totally dominating and going ahead.
But it’s the momentum shifts that are the issue, we panic and we lose control of the game.
That’s not being worked out, that’s just players not being mentally at it and not savvy enough to see the game through
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well sure looked like they worked us out by the second half to me.

But you have your own take clearly.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
more likely that Ange's gameplan is very high energy demanding, and when the legs start to go it becomes less and less effective as the game goes on and more spaces and the amount of time to react to things increases and become more exploitable.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok, so should he maybe not take that into account?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
100%, I was agreeing with you earlier. He needs to learn to kill a game off when leading and keep control of the game. I was defending you previously as that doesnt mean "park the bus" like others suggested.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

WTF...how can Ange "kill the game off". Thats on teh players to make their dominance count.

As for being tired by half time 2 months into a seasonFatigue may be a longer term issue with this style but its not really a factor now, with players the majority of which played no more than 15 minutes mid week.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I never said they were tired by half time. You keep jumping to the very extremities of peoples opinions.

I said the intensity isnt the same. And as such is plan A isnt as effective and more open to exploiting.


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First half we were all over them..

2nd half they were all over us.

Your comment if taken in the context of this game, where they dominated us in th second half, at least implies our massive drop off second half was fatigue based.

We let in 2 goals inside the first 12 minutes of the 2nd half. If you are not making the point that our physically demanding style cost us, that we couldnt keep up our intensity from 45-60mins, then what point are you making?

comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 2 hours, 4 minutes ago
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 25 minutes ago
comment by Automatic For The People (U21889)
posted 13 seconds ago
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 28 minutes ago
comment by Automatic For The People (U21889)
posted 44 minutes ago
comment by Sir Tottenham of Hotspur (U17379)
posted 4 minutes ago
If it was simply a case of us “being worked out” then why did we go 2-0 up in the first place? Why did we go 3-0 up at united? Obviously theirs is large parts of Angeball that does work and it leads to us totally dominating and going ahead.
But it’s the momentum shifts that are the issue, we panic and we lose control of the game.
That’s not being worked out, that’s just players not being mentally at it and not savvy enough to see the game through
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well sure looked like they worked us out by the second half to me.

But you have your own take clearly.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
more likely that Ange's gameplan is very high energy demanding, and when the legs start to go it becomes less and less effective as the game goes on and more spaces and the amount of time to react to things increases and become more exploitable.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok, so should he maybe not take that into account?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
100%, I was agreeing with you earlier. He needs to learn to kill a game off when leading and keep control of the game. I was defending you previously as that doesnt mean "park the bus" like others suggested.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

WTF...how can Ange "kill the game off". Thats on teh players to make their dominance count.

As for being tired by half time 2 months into a seasonFatigue may be a longer term issue with this style but its not really a factor now, with players the majority of which played no more than 15 minutes mid week.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I never said they were tired by half time. You keep jumping to the very extremities of peoples opinions.

I said the intensity isnt the same. And as such is plan A isnt as effective and more open to exploiting.


----------------------------------------------------------------------

First half we were all over them..

2nd half they were all over us.

Your comment if taken in the context of this game, where they dominated us in th second half, at least implies our massive drop off second half was fatigue based.

We let in 2 goals inside the first 12 minutes of the 2nd half. If you are not making the point that our physically demanding style cost us, that we couldnt keep up our intensity from 45-60mins, then what point are you making?
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not repeating myself anymore. Like I said that opinion has been formed over watching him very closely for a few years now... since 2021.

comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 2 hours, 27 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 32 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 2 hours ago
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I agree it all happened very quickly but there was still enough time to read the situation to implement changes sooner. If the players weren't mentally ready in the second half for Brighton coming at them as they did, can you question whether Ange should have done more to make them ready? It's as if everyone wasn't aware that Brighton might be able to come back into this. Maybe he had a half time team talk that addressed this and the players took no notice.

Ultimately, the responsibility at least partly falls on to him to drill this mentality into these players. It's why he was brought in, to help change the mentality of the team going forward and we're now in the second season, still losing too many games.


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I agree. We came out 2nd half complacent and may be that reflected what was said in teh dressing room, maybe it didnt.

But whati have been saying is that this is a learning process. I do not believe we have ever been in so much control, 2 nil very easy and then been made so uncomfortable and lost the game, under Ange.

The test will be next time. Next time we are 2 nil and cruising we make sure its 3 nil If it isnt then we make sure we dont give them a sniff, and if they manage to get a goal back we then manage that situation. We dont come out in the 2nd half and be surprised that the oppo have had a rocket from their manager and have gone up some gears, even at 2 nil.

We lost games under Ange, we've let leads go but the way this happened was a new one...Where we are right now in our development, we take this as a hard lesson learned...and we do not expect to see it again.

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I hope you are right and this is more an isolated case of the players just not being mentally ready at the time and therefore Ange can be more absolved of blame than usual. But the fact this comes too soon after the other losses, it feels all is still not right at Spurs with Ange, whether the tactics are wrong or the mentality is wrong, he needs to strike a good balance between the 2.

If we can go on a good run from this point and like you say learn from this situation when we face a similar one in the future, then we can start to look back and say it was an isolated incident. There's still this idea that when facing the tougher teams, they can figure us out more easily. Villa in 3 games time will be interesting. That's if we're able to get to that point unscathed.
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You say "so soon after other losses" but this is our first in 6 after 5 straight winsand the first time we let a lead slip since game week 1.

TBF we have seen a bit too much of losing control when under a bit of pressure and that needs to be addressed. Ange's basic message since day 1 has been "stay relentless" so it is disappointing that we have failed to do this and it cost us. That's what will have pisssed him off the most because we stopped doing what we do well and we were not competitive as a result.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm talking about in the PL. The European games were against minnows, the sort of standard from the leagues he was managing before. He needs to be able to convince us more than ever that he isn't just papering over the cracks by beating weaker teams and can actually get us to go on decent unbeaten runs in this league now. We should be on one now. That's what makes this loss all the more frustrating...you get 2 good wins against Brentford and United and it then comes crashing down against Brighton when with that momentum, you should expect at least a draw.

Our next fixtures are:

West Ham at home
Palace away
Villa at home
Ipswich at home
City away

Would you agree that looking at that we should remain unbeaten up to the City game? The way it's been going under Ange though, chances are we go unbeaten versus a struggling West Ham and Palace then lose to Villa and that shouldn't be happening.

comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 35 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 2 hours, 27 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 32 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 2 hours ago
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree it all happened very quickly but there was still enough time to read the situation to implement changes sooner. If the players weren't mentally ready in the second half for Brighton coming at them as they did, can you question whether Ange should have done more to make them ready? It's as if everyone wasn't aware that Brighton might be able to come back into this. Maybe he had a half time team talk that addressed this and the players took no notice.

Ultimately, the responsibility at least partly falls on to him to drill this mentality into these players. It's why he was brought in, to help change the mentality of the team going forward and we're now in the second season, still losing too many games.


----------------------------------------------------------------------

I agree. We came out 2nd half complacent and may be that reflected what was said in teh dressing room, maybe it didnt.

But whati have been saying is that this is a learning process. I do not believe we have ever been in so much control, 2 nil very easy and then been made so uncomfortable and lost the game, under Ange.

The test will be next time. Next time we are 2 nil and cruising we make sure its 3 nil If it isnt then we make sure we dont give them a sniff, and if they manage to get a goal back we then manage that situation. We dont come out in the 2nd half and be surprised that the oppo have had a rocket from their manager and have gone up some gears, even at 2 nil.

We lost games under Ange, we've let leads go but the way this happened was a new one...Where we are right now in our development, we take this as a hard lesson learned...and we do not expect to see it again.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
I hope you are right and this is more an isolated case of the players just not being mentally ready at the time and therefore Ange can be more absolved of blame than usual. But the fact this comes too soon after the other losses, it feels all is still not right at Spurs with Ange, whether the tactics are wrong or the mentality is wrong, he needs to strike a good balance between the 2.

If we can go on a good run from this point and like you say learn from this situation when we face a similar one in the future, then we can start to look back and say it was an isolated incident. There's still this idea that when facing the tougher teams, they can figure us out more easily. Villa in 3 games time will be interesting. That's if we're able to get to that point unscathed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

You say "so soon after other losses" but this is our first in 6 after 5 straight winsand the first time we let a lead slip since game week 1.

TBF we have seen a bit too much of losing control when under a bit of pressure and that needs to be addressed. Ange's basic message since day 1 has been "stay relentless" so it is disappointing that we have failed to do this and it cost us. That's what will have pisssed him off the most because we stopped doing what we do well and we were not competitive as a result.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm talking about in the PL. The European games were against minnows, the sort of standard from the leagues he was managing before. He needs to be able to convince us more than ever that he isn't just papering over the cracks by beating weaker teams and can actually get us to go on decent unbeaten runs in this league now. We should be on one now. That's what makes this loss all the more frustrating...you get 2 good wins against Brentford and United and it then comes crashing down against Brighton when with that momentum, you should expect at least a draw.

Our next fixtures are:

West Ham at home
Palace away
Villa at home
Ipswich at home
City away

Would you agree that looking at that we should remain unbeaten up to the City game? The way it's been going under Ange though, chances are we go unbeaten versus a struggling West Ham and Palace then lose to Villa and that shouldn't be happening.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Massively disappointing result no denying that, but lets not make too much of it. It was a bit freakish the way it played out and i dont think it really points to any fundamental issues other than the ability of our players to cope when under the pump a bit. They crumbled, made errors and i cannot really put that on Ange, but he does need to address it and the team need to build a stronger mentality - He's quite renowned for the mental side of the game, so lets see if they can build from here.

comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 29 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 35 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 2 hours, 27 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 32 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 2 hours ago
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree it all happened very quickly but there was still enough time to read the situation to implement changes sooner. If the players weren't mentally ready in the second half for Brighton coming at them as they did, can you question whether Ange should have done more to make them ready? It's as if everyone wasn't aware that Brighton might be able to come back into this. Maybe he had a half time team talk that addressed this and the players took no notice.

Ultimately, the responsibility at least partly falls on to him to drill this mentality into these players. It's why he was brought in, to help change the mentality of the team going forward and we're now in the second season, still losing too many games.


----------------------------------------------------------------------

I agree. We came out 2nd half complacent and may be that reflected what was said in teh dressing room, maybe it didnt.

But whati have been saying is that this is a learning process. I do not believe we have ever been in so much control, 2 nil very easy and then been made so uncomfortable and lost the game, under Ange.

The test will be next time. Next time we are 2 nil and cruising we make sure its 3 nil If it isnt then we make sure we dont give them a sniff, and if they manage to get a goal back we then manage that situation. We dont come out in the 2nd half and be surprised that the oppo have had a rocket from their manager and have gone up some gears, even at 2 nil.

We lost games under Ange, we've let leads go but the way this happened was a new one...Where we are right now in our development, we take this as a hard lesson learned...and we do not expect to see it again.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
I hope you are right and this is more an isolated case of the players just not being mentally ready at the time and therefore Ange can be more absolved of blame than usual. But the fact this comes too soon after the other losses, it feels all is still not right at Spurs with Ange, whether the tactics are wrong or the mentality is wrong, he needs to strike a good balance between the 2.

If we can go on a good run from this point and like you say learn from this situation when we face a similar one in the future, then we can start to look back and say it was an isolated incident. There's still this idea that when facing the tougher teams, they can figure us out more easily. Villa in 3 games time will be interesting. That's if we're able to get to that point unscathed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

You say "so soon after other losses" but this is our first in 6 after 5 straight winsand the first time we let a lead slip since game week 1.

TBF we have seen a bit too much of losing control when under a bit of pressure and that needs to be addressed. Ange's basic message since day 1 has been "stay relentless" so it is disappointing that we have failed to do this and it cost us. That's what will have pisssed him off the most because we stopped doing what we do well and we were not competitive as a result.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm talking about in the PL. The European games were against minnows, the sort of standard from the leagues he was managing before. He needs to be able to convince us more than ever that he isn't just papering over the cracks by beating weaker teams and can actually get us to go on decent unbeaten runs in this league now. We should be on one now. That's what makes this loss all the more frustrating...you get 2 good wins against Brentford and United and it then comes crashing down against Brighton when with that momentum, you should expect at least a draw.

Our next fixtures are:

West Ham at home
Palace away
Villa at home
Ipswich at home
City away

Would you agree that looking at that we should remain unbeaten up to the City game? The way it's been going under Ange though, chances are we go unbeaten versus a struggling West Ham and Palace then lose to Villa and that shouldn't be happening.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Massively disappointing result no denying that, but lets not make too much of it. It was a bit freakish the way it played out and i dont think it really points to any fundamental issues other than the ability of our players to cope when under the pump a bit. They crumbled, made errors and i cannot really put that on Ange, but he does need to address it and the team need to build a stronger mentality - He's quite renowned for the mental side of the game, so lets see if they can build from here.


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The way it played out may have been freakish but the result was not based on who we are and aren't beating these days.

The next set of fixtures up to the City game are pretty generous - Three home games and one away to Palace, who haven't won a game yet. Minimum required should be 3 wins and a draw and I don't think it's too much to ask for. Then maybe we can get back to believing in Ange again.

Bit sick of this this flip flopping between believing and not believing in Ange depending on the result week to week.

comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 10 hours, 40 minutes ago
It's not a case of being worked out. It's a case of the players delivering.

There was nothing really tactical that saw us give up the momentum. You could argue a mistake from Udogie early 2nd half handed it to them and we couldn't cope.

Tactical geniuses like Sizzle demand a plan b but they also moaned like hell when Contes team took the lead and parked the bus.

This is a learning process for this group and they need to develop a stronger mentality when we are under the pump. I have noticed we tend to panic. We did after Leicester equalised. We did in that spell that utd had against us and we did vs BHA. We suddenly lose our heads a bit, go long with the ball, give up possession and repeat. There needs to be the calmness and a bit of steel to wrestle back control, take the sting out of the game. Even just an injury break or a bit of time wasting, but generally more controlled possession tk build up to a position of having control and playing our game. Game management is needed, maturity, leadership. Not a Plan B

That is why I was super disappointed with how we threw it away. Mistakes but then panic. Bentancur, a highly experienced played just letting their player cross it. It's moments like that that make me question the desire of some of our players and their ability to execute.

Saying we are figured out is just lazy simple nonesense.
But we do need to find a away to change momentum in a game . For me a lot of it is mentality and execution in the key moments.
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I know I'm late and not a Spurs fan but not having anything to fall back on will really contribute to the players confidence levels in the moment.

If you can feel the momentum shifting and you don't have any answer, you're looking for the manager to tweak something on bring someone on to give you that little boost.

It might not need to be an all out Conte style plan B, but players will be looking to the manager for leadership and it seems like in some situations its lacking, which then contributes to the players floundering.

comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 28 minutes ago
Bit sick of this this flip flopping between believing and not believing in Ange depending on the result week to week.

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Football is the most fickle sport there is Dev

I’m flipping and flopping all over the place

comment by T-BAD (U11806)
posted 13 hours, 59 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 10 hours, 40 minutes ago
It's not a case of being worked out. It's a case of the players delivering.

There was nothing really tactical that saw us give up the momentum. You could argue a mistake from Udogie early 2nd half handed it to them and we couldn't cope.

Tactical geniuses like Sizzle demand a plan b but they also moaned like hell when Contes team took the lead and parked the bus.

This is a learning process for this group and they need to develop a stronger mentality when we are under the pump. I have noticed we tend to panic. We did after Leicester equalised. We did in that spell that utd had against us and we did vs BHA. We suddenly lose our heads a bit, go long with the ball, give up possession and repeat. There needs to be the calmness and a bit of steel to wrestle back control, take the sting out of the game. Even just an injury break or a bit of time wasting, but generally more controlled possession tk build up to a position of having control and playing our game. Game management is needed, maturity, leadership. Not a Plan B

That is why I was super disappointed with how we threw it away. Mistakes but then panic. Bentancur, a highly experienced played just letting their player cross it. It's moments like that that make me question the desire of some of our players and their ability to execute.

Saying we are figured out is just lazy simple nonesense.
But we do need to find a away to change momentum in a game . For me a lot of it is mentality and execution in the key moments.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I know I'm late and not a Spurs fan but not having anything to fall back on will really contribute to the players confidence levels in the moment.

If you can feel the momentum shifting and you don't have any answer, you're looking for the manager to tweak something on bring someone on to give you that little boost.

It might not need to be an all out Conte style plan B, but players will be looking to the manager for leadership and it seems like in some situations its lacking, which then contributes to the players floundering.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I disagree.

Players will learn over time and from experience to recognise situations and to react. Ange would never want us when under pressure to retreat like Arsenal do at times, conceding 65% possession. So that's not an option, but neither is it for many teams, including City.

What they may need instruction on but should really become instinct is being able to react. If we are under the pump, we make sure we are a bit more careful in possession, don't put the ball at risk so much, just reassert some control, slow it all down a bit. That's not a Plan B, that's not a change in tactics, that's just game management and really with the experienced core we have, a year and more into the Ange era, this should really start to become second nature, rather than having to be told what to do by the coach.

Ask any experienced pro and they will tell you exactly this. Once over the white line its down to the players to adapt to situations, and that includes really going for it if they smell blood or targeting a particular player/side if its a successful approach.