Why is it that elite clubs, whether they're down on their luck or aren't performing well, return to the upper echelons eventually? Money? Sure, that makes a huge impact, but on paper have we spent any less than Liverpool or even Arsenal in the last 10 years or so? The difference is marginal.
Why is it that no matter the quality of the squad we have, we generally finish 5th or, at best 4th in the league? We've had some exceptions under Poch, with a 2nd and 3rd place finish, but generally speaking some out worst teams have finished 5th and some of our best have finished in the same spot. How is that possible?
I often hear quotes from other club's former players where demand from the club, ownership and fans make defeat of any kind unacceptable. That's certainly true of Europe's traditional elite. How much of that impacts where you finish? I think if you have enough money, you can overcome that hurdle of an inherent lack of club expectation, like City for example. Only now do they sit in that same sphere as the others where defeats become unacceptable.
I just wonder whether what holds us back more than anything else is a culture of defeat being okay. Not great, but not a disaster. That 'dust yourself down and go again' philosophy. If that runs through the club, I'm not sure how you change that without having so much money that it becomes irrelevant, like City. None of us like losing but we've become used to sitting in the skin of supporting Spurs. We hope for the best but expect the worst. THAT's the culture. If the fans have, the ownership have it and that then bleeds into the team. The truly elite clubs go 2-0 up for example, and if they concede to make it 2-1, they don't implode. They take it as a reason to shift up another gear. To score just one is an insult, such is the fear of what a loss might mean.
As much as Ange wants to change us, many others have tried and failed but I just wonder whether there's a part to the club ultimately beyond his reach. Failure breeds failure. It becomes par. It becomes expectation. I wouldn't mind betting that's what he regards as his biggest battle.
Anyone else think there's a problem at the heart of the club regarding a lack of expectation?
Expectation and club culture
posted 19 hours, 30 minutes ago
Were pretty crap under ETH but still won two cups at our worst
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While there's obviously a very different mentality at United if you've got the reputation and money to sign the likes of Varane and Casemiro you're going to win stuff occasionally even if the football is sheit.
Liverpool is a much better example of a team being run properly and focusing on football success rather than profit
posted 19 hours, 27 minutes ago
It's why so many of us wanted a marquee signing in the summer. Of course it's nice and everything, but you need that winner's mentality in the dressing room. Even if the chairman is happy with top 4. We got Werner as the experienced head.. sigh
posted 19 hours, 15 minutes ago
Who was our last truly stand out marquee signing ? One that made everyone stand up and go can’t believe they got him and be a success
Rafa ?
It should have been ndombele ….everyone wanted him
posted 19 hours, 13 minutes ago
Looking forward to the day when Werner lifts a trophy with his next club.
posted 17 hours, 20 minutes ago
As much as I might bash Levy, that wasn’t really the point I was making with the original article. I think it’s deeper than that. As Dev says, we haven’t really been a dominant force since the 60s bar a minor flirt in the early 80s so this is about club culture rather than any individual. It can be changed but only with a period of sustained success. One cup won’t do it. It’ll be a start but it won’t change much. The only way to change trends is to buck them. We’d need to start picking up 1, then 2, 3, 4 trophies to start making a difference. The main problem getting there is the wind is against us. It’s about faith. How much of what Ange is trying to instil in the club (not just the players) is being undone by ‘spursy’ prejudices peddled by the media. It’s about total faith. As fans, we all have doubts he can do it because no one else has managed it in the modern era. If there’s any doubt within the club itself, we’re screwed.
posted 16 hours, 27 minutes ago
Different issues over that time though init. It's not useful to talk about one thing like a 'mentality' or 'ambition' or some even vaguer hoodoo over 50 years, multiple owners etc.
In reality we were great, then for a long time didn't have the money to compete at the top level. Then we had the United era of dominance, then City getting the money just as we were edging top 4.
Only useful thing to do IMO is assess what's gone wrong in recent years that might be relevant to what we can do differently in the future
posted 12 hours, 35 minutes ago
comment by Bãleș left boot (U22081)
posted 3 hours, 46 minutes ago
Different issues over that time though init. It's not useful to talk about one thing like a 'mentality' or 'ambition' or some even vaguer hoodoo over 50 years, multiple owners etc.
In reality we were great, then for a long time didn't have the money to compete at the top level. Then we had the United era of dominance, then City getting the money just as we were edging top 4.
Only useful thing to do IMO is assess what's gone wrong in recent years that might be relevant to what we can do differently in the future
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I take your point but I do think there’s a reason our best teams and our worst teams tend to hover in similar positions and I think club culture is what drives that. Players won’t even know they’re not giving it everything. It’s a sort of unconscious ceiling the entire club sets itself. There are obvious factors that can come into play like money, great academy and top coaching that can breach that ceiling but generally speaking, the toughest opponent we’re going to face in our quest for success is ourselves.
posted 11 hours, 43 minutes ago
Fair enough, I definitely agree it's a cultural issue
posted 5 hours, 4 minutes ago
comment by Bãleș left boot (U22081)
posted 15 hours, 25 minutes ago
Billy's boring but he's right. It's on Levy. You can get dragged into the details but at the end of the day, he's responsible for the good (new stadium, 'top 6' tag) and the bad (no trophies) equally.
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Was he correct with his pathetically predictable "jibe" about varpool and penited?
posted 2 hours, 52 minutes ago
comment by Bãleș left boot (U22081)
posted 8 hours, 46 minutes ago
Fair enough, I definitely agree it's a cultural issue
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I think that's why any sort of trophy is a game changer for us. It moves the bar higher and is something tangible to point at and demand, that is what it is all about, that is what we expect. Right now we have nothing to point to of any substance that helps us set the highest of standards and our successful period is so far in the past that it is completely irrelevant in terms of motivation and setting the standards.