Spurs have a great team now, and

Neither did the Glazers, Joe Lewis or John Henry.

It does take more than money to win trophies as Inter Milan proved with their constant failure to spend and win in the 90s.

All clubs have been bankrolled by their owners at some time and if you dig deep enough (United and Arsenal) not all those owners, present and previous are squeaky clean.

oddiY

I don't dispute that but United were just as lucky as Chelsea and City were.

United were in turmoil and were midtable dross in the late 80s, they gained their money through a share issue involving Edwards after they decided to float the club on the stock market and become a PLC. They got lucky, just as Chelsea were lucky RA decided to invest in them and just as lucky as City were with Sheikh Mansour, and then Arsenal w/Henry Norris before them. Luck plays a huge part in football and life in general

Sandy,

Im not arguing that the UEFA system is not heavily flawed or that i know a better way of doing it, my point is about credibilty - it is more credible to get your money through football revenue than to be given it - Man Utd and the Wanderers got their coefficient through initially doing well in the european competitions, which means they progress easier, and earn more money - but initially they had to earn that coeffient
Had EUFA just said "umm well lets umm Arseanl, that sounds cool, yeah lets give them a really good coefficient and secure their earnings" i would feel agreived

Sandy

That's my point exactly, when Chelsea first played in the CL BEFORE RA takeover we were having to play the likes of Lazio (who at that time were a good side) and AC Milan etc.

Let's be honest we all know that more often than not Barcelona, Real Madrid, Chelsea, Arsenal, Man Utd and Man City are going to make it past the group stage.

Teams like Plzen, BATE Borisov, Cluj, Genk etc don't have a prayer of getting past the CL group stage.

If there was a more open way of doing it, everybody would have a chance.

And if the top 4 teams weren't handed £50m+ year on top of what they get domestically clubs like Spurs, Villa, Everton who have all knocked on the door in recent years would have broken in years ago.

FFP rules mean that clubs will all have to spend within their means, you'll notice that Chelsea have not spent as much as were a few years ago because of this and high earners have left and will all be leaving the club and the wage bill will lower. This is also why City have not spent heavily over the last two windows.

oddiY

But how have Arsenal earnt the right to be a top seed?

Borussia Dortmund WON their league.
Marseille WON their league.
Olympiakos WON their league.

Arsenal despite finishing 4th in their league and going through qualifiers managed to be seeded above all of these teams.

On performance in respective leagues how have Arsenal earnt the right to be seeded above these teams?

By doing this UEFA are just throwing clubs like Plzen, BATE Borisov Cluj etc into the lion's den, they know more often than not these clubs won't make it through and at best will fall into their secondary competition Europa League.

Why do they do this? Viewing figures/public interest.

Why would you want to watch Cluj/Bate Barisov in the Last 16 when you can watch Arsenal, AC Milan, Chelsea, United, Inter, Barca etc all of whom have huge worldwide fanbases.

It's cynical but that's how it is.

If Spurs get top 4 which I think they will wait and see how hard it'll be for you to get out of your group.

We know Bubbles we did it season before last

Sure public interest has something to do with it, certain leagues are traditionally better to watch than others, it is a spectator sport after all.

As i said, I am not arguing that the UEFA system isnt heavily flawed - my point is, and i repeat, it is more cedible to earn that coefficient (which they did, somewhere down the line) than to be given a shed load of money to buy it - your opinion differs from mine as you dont think it is - that is all im trying to say

oddiY

We'll just have to agree to disagree

One thing we can both agree on is that Spurs are shiiiite

Yeah we can defintely agree on tha...WHAT

We should hug now in a our agreeing yet disagreeing way