Cleverly

Definitely, from what Ive seen on TV, youtube and in the flesh, Cleverly is our best midfielder, and will make an impact if he stays fit

comment by Ji Sung Park's Cousin (U2958)
posted 1 hour, 2 minutes ago
I love carrick but holding/sitting midfields are
incompatible with 4-4-2
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Someone should tap SAF on the shoulder and tell
him then.... We have been playing with Carrick in
a 4-4-2 as a holding player for 6 seasons now, not
doing too badly either.

********

Its impossible to do it. It becomes a 4-2-3-1 as seen by the overreliance on rooney dropping to be effective as opposed to the days of cole and hesky and also explains why lose possession more since 2006.

4-4-2 is at its best with 2 box-box midfielders, defensively incline one attack minded. See spurs for the example. Dust off some 99 videos, not the pretend one we use now which is almost a 5 man defense, counter attacking team with european sensibilities we operate.

Not to sound bitter but the real 4-4-2 is the formation we started this season with; a mass attack mass defence team which we did not get the time to amend since injuries hindered it. With the right balance a 4-4-2 similar to spurs would be the result only younger and faster.

redastomatoes (U12026)
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Out of Cleverley and Anderson, who would be the more defensively inclined player then? I really don't see how Carrick and Cleverley is that different from Parker and Modric. Parker gets about a little more but can't pass the ball like Carrick so I can't see much difference. Carrick and Cleverley are central midfielders that can pass, tackle, intercept and put the yards in. I fail to see how they won't work in a 442.

It depends who loose or pedantic you want to be with the term 4-4-2.

How many times at OT do you see Rooney forced to drop deep (he might naturally wander about, even 5-0 up, that's his style)?

I'd say 70% of our games are a fairly traditional 4-4-2... Just the bigger games are a looser formation that can change to suit the opposition.

comment by Scholesatov (U12340)

posted 1 hour, 54 minutes ago

redastomatoes (U12026)
------------
Out of Cleverley and Anderson, who would be the more defensively inclined player then? I really don't see how Carrick and Cleverley is that different from Parker and Modric. Parker gets about a little more but can't pass the ball like Carrick so I can't see much difference. Carrick and Cleverley are central midfielders that can pass, tackle, intercept and put the yards in. I fail to see how they won't work in a 442.

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watch spurs play, parker makes at least 3-4 runs into the box every game. something you will never see carrick do. similar too roy keane who used to make runs into the box, does not make them less defensive. it is all about balance while providing attacking opportunities

ando and cleverley will find who has defensive responsibilities (tho while they played together it was ando who had them). the longer they play the better the balance becomes

comment by Ji Sung Park's Cousin (U2958)

posted 1 hour, 56 minutes ago

It depends who loose or pedantic you want to be with the term 4-4-2.

How many times at OT do you see Rooney forced to drop deep (he might naturally wander about, even 5-0 up, that's his style)?

I'd say 70% of our games are a fairly traditional 4-4-2... Just the bigger games are a looser formation that can change to suit the opposition.

********************************

like i said in the earlier posts, how many runs have you seen carrick make into the box? runs forward to make up the extra man in midfield when the strikers makes runs into space.

i am not being pedantic. 4-4-2 cannot operate rightly with a holding midfielder. i just cannot see it working in its true form, the form testifies to the inherent balance of the formation. when carrick can go a whole game without making a run into the box, that is not 4-4-2. it is a glorified 5-4-1, a diamond midfield (which really is not the case) or at best a 4-2-3-1. in fact the worst 4-4-2 teams in the league (wolves, bolton) use box-to-box players in midfield. that is what the ethos of the formation is.

btw rooney still drops when we play at home against average team. if i had a penny for when someone came here and whines that "rooney is dropping deep because he cant get the ball"

going as far as to suggest Carrick is a 3rd CB is just clutching at straws.

Even when a team plays your "proper 4-4-2" formation.. the two box to box MFs will generally have a role to play, one further forward, on further back.

We play a 4-4-2, simple as that, we are blessed with a #10 who has a fairly free role and is clever enough to know when to drop deep.... but that does not stop it being a 4-4-2,,, especially when we are at home or in command.

omment by Ji Sung Park's Cousin (U2958)

posted 26 minutes ago

going as far as to suggest Carrick is a 3rd CB is just clutching at straws.

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why is that? he rarely crosses the centre line, has as many forward incisive passes as our defenders. our defenders probably make more drives

I'm not gonna try and convince you of something you've already convinced yourself... Just watch him closely tomorrow, maybe you will see what I see... a midfielder

comment by redastomatoes (U12026) posted 15 hours, 43 minutes ago

omment by Ji Sung Park's Cousin (U2958)

posted 26 minutes ago

going as far as to suggest Carrick is a 3rd CB is just clutching at straws.

******************************

why is that? he rarely crosses the centre line
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Utter nonesense

He's scored twice recently and presses into opponents halves when United do

Just because he plays a tad deeper than Clevs for example doesn;t mean it isn't a 442

We can all be pedantic and say its really a
2 2 1 3 1 1 if like

In a 442 players do not stay in a precise line ffs

442 means 4 defenders, 4 midfielders and 2 strikers

Carrick is a midfeilder, not a CB (Even though he can play there)