And if someone came in and was better than Song then fair enough, but it's not the area of the team I think we need to focus on to be honest.
____________________________________
Don't get me wrong. I don't want to replace Song. I think about strength in depths for the team. Song may could get an injury or he misses out because of the ACON. I love the guy as you do, he is class.
Song is on par with Seedorf in his prime, I can see why these articles are made.
Song is not on a par with Seedorf in his prime. Seedorf technically is miles ahead of Song, just because Song has some lovely assists don't get the idea that he's all of a sudden got the first touch of an angel and the shot of a laser guided missile.
They're different players in most ways, forget about comparisons.
Chris is right. Song is miles better than Seedorf.
Songdorf single handedly rose Arsenal up the table like a rising pheonix.
Song is basic and not a very good footballer at all. JJG, this article is completely at odds with my opinion of him. People often say he is our best defensive midfielder, but look who you are comparing him to - Rosicky, Ramsey, Wilshere and Arteta. Do me a lemon.
I can't rate a footballer who I don't even think is better than me. He has a slow footballing brain, he is technically poor, he is slow. He could be any big black bloke from Hackney Marshes in my opinion. He is not especially good at attacking or defending, he is only playing because Wenger neglected that area of the team after Flamini left.
This is of course all very subjective - I played as a CM so I know what I like to see and what I don't, Song doesn't appeal to me in the slightest. Yes he shows flashes of brilliance but every footballer does. Crouch's volley is a good example of that.
JJG, this article is completely at odds with my opinion of him
---------------------------------
shucks, there's a surprise - the hothead doesn't rate one of our players.
shucks, there's a surprise - the hothead doesn't rate one of our players.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Aye .. thats because I understand football and I'm not a lemming
shucks, there's a surprise - the hothead doesn't rate one of our players.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Aye .. thats because I understand football and I'm not a lemming
-----------------------------
or because you're a miserable twonk who is never happy unless he's slagging off someone other people rate.
"This is of course all very subjective - I played as a CM so I know what I like to see and what I don't, Song doesn't appeal to me in the slightest. Yes he shows flashes of brilliance but every footballer does. Crouch's volley is a good example of that."
I think Song's regular assists this season are slightly more than flashes of brilliance.
As for the position you played what level did you play to? Everyone's entitled to an opinion but I've recently felt that too many of us seem to think our opinions on the technical ability and tactical acumen of players and coaches is akin to me with my GCSE in science going up to Stephen Hawking and saying "you know your Brief History of Time? What a load of old toss that is."
This isn't a direct criticism of you, we all do it. But seriously what the hell do any of us know really?
But seriously what the hell do any of us know really?
----------------------
I know how to tie my shoelaces with one hand.
I also know how to beat the first level of the original Wolfenstein on the hardest difficulty without getting shot.
But that's about it.
Victor - I won't get in a t1t for tat with you, I can't be bothered, but I can honestly say I don't have a problem with Song, he is the best in that position from what we have to choose from
But to me that's because we do not have anyone decent to play there. He is the first name on the team sheet and so he should but that's a sad indictment of us as a squad in my view. I don't like Walcott as a winger, I think he'd be a much better striker and I've said this many times in the past. there are no Arsenal players I don't like, I even talked up Bendtner's abilities when we sold Adebayor. I always rated Rosicky and thought Denilson was one of our most important players a couple of seasons back. But I call a spade a spade, Song IS basic !
JJG - I played semi pro, the highest I got was to the old Diadora Premier league.
I don't like Walcott as a winger, I think he'd be a much better striker
----------------
A few people have said that but I'm not sure why. Other than that amazing finish against Villa, he's fluffed many one-on-one chances.
Theo doesn't score ugly goals though. He's such a smart finisher with his little booties tied up, and his socks going up to his ears
"JJG - I played semi pro, the highest I got was to the old Diadora Premier league."
Which is pretty cool, but it's still a long way from the top level and I stand by what I said. You may have a few more qualifications than my GCSE but you're a long way from creating a theorem regarding gravitational singularities in the framework of general relativity. (Cheers Wiki!)
For me the objections to Song all seem to stem from the fact that he's not good enough defensively, but that comes from the system we play. Song is obviously not asked to be a holding midfielder he's just asked to be the most defensive of the three. In terms of midfielders in the Premier League that can do an all-round job in the centre of the pitch as well as him I can only think of Yaya Toure and Essien when he was good. Perhaps there's loads of others in the world but I find it hard to believe to be honest.
Replacing Song with a more defensive player means that we'd lose the attacking side of Songs game and I think that would have a more detrimental effect on the team than the benefits gained of a bit more security at the back.
"Replacing Song with a more defensive player means that we'd lose the attacking side of Songs game and I think that would have a more detrimental effect on the team than the benefits gained of a bit more security at the back."
This is the key point, and if I could kiss you for it, I would.
The problem with Song is not that he sometimes loses discipline and balance between attack and defense. Its more that he is slow and so is unable to cover the ground that a player in his position is asked to do. Thats why Arsene has always considered him to be the ideal center back.
Song is magnificent against poorer opposition because they don't have the range in passing to turn him. But he has been horribly found out against better teams especially in away games. Partly because Arteta/Wilshere offer no protection against those teams either.
The fact we have been linked to 'holding' minded players such as M'Vila does not necessarily mean that Song will be sold, as he can be the 4th center back (Squillaci is expected to leave in the summer) as well as the starting holding minded midfield player.
But it does suggest that Song will not get the sort of contract his agent is probably demanding. Its really up to him. RVP and Theo are the obvious priorities this summer.
"Song is magnificent against poorer opposition because they don't have the range in passing to turn him. But he has been horribly found out against better teams especially in away games. Partly because Arteta/Wilshere offer no protection against those teams either."
I think this could be down to the fact that most teams will play two more defensive players away against the big teams, whereas Song is expected to do it on his own and still help out in attack.
I think whether we buy anyone or not next season against the likes of Man City and Man Utd we should play two more defensive players. Song and Coquelin or Song and Frimpong or Song and assorted other.
I also think that our midfield as a whole is working harder defensively than it was earlier in the season if we can maintain that then I'd rather we made sure we kept hold of Song by giving him a decent contract then had to splash large amounts of money on someone to come in and do his job and doesn't know the team when there are other areas of the team we need to strenghten first.
For that reason I'd prioritise his contract just ahead of Walcott's.
http://yfrog.com/kl8ugiqj
Discussion over!
God, I can't help but be furiously aroused by that picture.
Melo - the couple of times Theo has been played as a striker he was Henry-esque with his finishing - the CL game against ... Sparta Prague maybe - I don't remember the team for sure, and against Chelsea in the cup final.
When he doesn't have to think about it his finishing is superb, he makes intelligent runs between the full back and the CB and can either round the keeper or slot it straight past the keeper which is what he tends to do. Walcott the striker is a different beast to Walcott the winger who is mediocre. He would score bucket loads for us if allowed to play further forward, I think Wenger recognises this hence him playing more as a forward than a winger.
JJG - I've played with pro ballers too
I've played with players from Enfield, I've played with players that were ex Arsenal schoolboys who dropped down a division or 2. In fact - I've played football with an England schoolboy as well. I know what separates pro ballers from semi pro, first touch, movement and speed of thought. I've played against midfielders who gave me the run around and others that were easy to play against. Song would fall into the category of big slow CM in my book. He doesn't have the speed of thought on the ball or across the ground to be good enough for what we need. I could plonk any number of decent big semi pro ballers in a DM role at Arsenal and you wouldn't see any difference between them and Song.
Don't forget, many footballers who could've played top level football didn't make it for different reasons not just making the grade, some had issues at home, some had attitude problems, some lost interest.
Here is a Youtube clip of one of the guys I have played with AND against, Jermaine Wynter, he's talking with Paolo Vernazza during an interview about their experiences in football - they were in the same youth team at Arsenal. Its only short:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BaYfFZhuOUs
I had no idea he had played against Totti for England !!
"Song would fall into the category of big slow CM in my book. He doesn't have the speed of thought on the ball or across the ground to be good enough for what we need. I could plonk any number of decent big semi pro ballers in a DM role at Arsenal and you wouldn't see any difference between them and Song."
This just patently isn't true.
JJG - I say that because he isn't tricky, he isn't quick, his passes are basic - apart from the odd through ball and he doesn't have great movement. He's clumsy too rather than having bite in his tackles.
Like I said, this is based on my experiences in football and what I found difficult/easy. Saying it isn't true doesn't make it so.
If Song could be replaced by any number of decent semi pro footballers why hasn't anyone done it? Why hasn't Wenger gone "hold on a minute, I could get some bloke from Croydon FC to do exactly the same job and pay him virtually nothing."
Because it's not true, that's why. We don't live in a Roy of the Rovers cartoon. We all have dreams that we could play at the top level if we'd made some different choices or had a bit of luck but the simple fact is the people who are good enough make it. The ones who aren't, don't.
Song is regularly playing against and with the best players in the world, if he could just be replaced by any old player it would be obvious.
I can understand people arguing he's not good enough for Arsenal but to be genuinely arguing that he's at the same level as non-league players is just laughable.
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Alex Song
Page 2 of 4
posted on 27/3/12
And if someone came in and was better than Song then fair enough, but it's not the area of the team I think we need to focus on to be honest.
____________________________________
Don't get me wrong. I don't want to replace Song. I think about strength in depths for the team. Song may could get an injury or he misses out because of the ACON. I love the guy as you do, he is class.
posted on 27/3/12
Song is on par with Seedorf in his prime, I can see why these articles are made.
posted on 27/3/12
Song is not on a par with Seedorf in his prime. Seedorf technically is miles ahead of Song, just because Song has some lovely assists don't get the idea that he's all of a sudden got the first touch of an angel and the shot of a laser guided missile.
They're different players in most ways, forget about comparisons.
posted on 27/3/12
Chris is right. Song is miles better than Seedorf.
posted on 27/3/12
Songdorf single handedly rose Arsenal up the table like a rising pheonix.
posted on 27/3/12
Song is basic and not a very good footballer at all. JJG, this article is completely at odds with my opinion of him. People often say he is our best defensive midfielder, but look who you are comparing him to - Rosicky, Ramsey, Wilshere and Arteta. Do me a lemon.
I can't rate a footballer who I don't even think is better than me. He has a slow footballing brain, he is technically poor, he is slow. He could be any big black bloke from Hackney Marshes in my opinion. He is not especially good at attacking or defending, he is only playing because Wenger neglected that area of the team after Flamini left.
This is of course all very subjective - I played as a CM so I know what I like to see and what I don't, Song doesn't appeal to me in the slightest. Yes he shows flashes of brilliance but every footballer does. Crouch's volley is a good example of that.
posted on 27/3/12
JJG, this article is completely at odds with my opinion of him
---------------------------------
shucks, there's a surprise - the hothead doesn't rate one of our players.
posted on 27/3/12
shucks, there's a surprise - the hothead doesn't rate one of our players.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Aye .. thats because I understand football and I'm not a lemming
posted on 27/3/12
shucks, there's a surprise - the hothead doesn't rate one of our players.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Aye .. thats because I understand football and I'm not a lemming
-----------------------------
or because you're a miserable twonk who is never happy unless he's slagging off someone other people rate.
posted on 27/3/12
"This is of course all very subjective - I played as a CM so I know what I like to see and what I don't, Song doesn't appeal to me in the slightest. Yes he shows flashes of brilliance but every footballer does. Crouch's volley is a good example of that."
I think Song's regular assists this season are slightly more than flashes of brilliance.
As for the position you played what level did you play to? Everyone's entitled to an opinion but I've recently felt that too many of us seem to think our opinions on the technical ability and tactical acumen of players and coaches is akin to me with my GCSE in science going up to Stephen Hawking and saying "you know your Brief History of Time? What a load of old toss that is."
This isn't a direct criticism of you, we all do it. But seriously what the hell do any of us know really?
posted on 27/3/12
But seriously what the hell do any of us know really?
----------------------
I know how to tie my shoelaces with one hand.
I also know how to beat the first level of the original Wolfenstein on the hardest difficulty without getting shot.
But that's about it.
posted on 27/3/12
Victor - I won't get in a t1t for tat with you, I can't be bothered, but I can honestly say I don't have a problem with Song, he is the best in that position from what we have to choose from
But to me that's because we do not have anyone decent to play there. He is the first name on the team sheet and so he should but that's a sad indictment of us as a squad in my view. I don't like Walcott as a winger, I think he'd be a much better striker and I've said this many times in the past. there are no Arsenal players I don't like, I even talked up Bendtner's abilities when we sold Adebayor. I always rated Rosicky and thought Denilson was one of our most important players a couple of seasons back. But I call a spade a spade, Song IS basic !
JJG - I played semi pro, the highest I got was to the old Diadora Premier league.
posted on 27/3/12
I don't like Walcott as a winger, I think he'd be a much better striker
----------------
A few people have said that but I'm not sure why. Other than that amazing finish against Villa, he's fluffed many one-on-one chances.
posted on 27/3/12
Theo doesn't score ugly goals though. He's such a smart finisher with his little booties tied up, and his socks going up to his ears
posted on 27/3/12
"JJG - I played semi pro, the highest I got was to the old Diadora Premier league."
Which is pretty cool, but it's still a long way from the top level and I stand by what I said. You may have a few more qualifications than my GCSE but you're a long way from creating a theorem regarding gravitational singularities in the framework of general relativity. (Cheers Wiki!)
For me the objections to Song all seem to stem from the fact that he's not good enough defensively, but that comes from the system we play. Song is obviously not asked to be a holding midfielder he's just asked to be the most defensive of the three. In terms of midfielders in the Premier League that can do an all-round job in the centre of the pitch as well as him I can only think of Yaya Toure and Essien when he was good. Perhaps there's loads of others in the world but I find it hard to believe to be honest.
Replacing Song with a more defensive player means that we'd lose the attacking side of Songs game and I think that would have a more detrimental effect on the team than the benefits gained of a bit more security at the back.
posted on 27/3/12
"Replacing Song with a more defensive player means that we'd lose the attacking side of Songs game and I think that would have a more detrimental effect on the team than the benefits gained of a bit more security at the back."
This is the key point, and if I could kiss you for it, I would.
posted on 27/3/12
The problem with Song is not that he sometimes loses discipline and balance between attack and defense. Its more that he is slow and so is unable to cover the ground that a player in his position is asked to do. Thats why Arsene has always considered him to be the ideal center back.
Song is magnificent against poorer opposition because they don't have the range in passing to turn him. But he has been horribly found out against better teams especially in away games. Partly because Arteta/Wilshere offer no protection against those teams either.
The fact we have been linked to 'holding' minded players such as M'Vila does not necessarily mean that Song will be sold, as he can be the 4th center back (Squillaci is expected to leave in the summer) as well as the starting holding minded midfield player.
But it does suggest that Song will not get the sort of contract his agent is probably demanding. Its really up to him. RVP and Theo are the obvious priorities this summer.
posted on 27/3/12
"Song is magnificent against poorer opposition because they don't have the range in passing to turn him. But he has been horribly found out against better teams especially in away games. Partly because Arteta/Wilshere offer no protection against those teams either."
I think this could be down to the fact that most teams will play two more defensive players away against the big teams, whereas Song is expected to do it on his own and still help out in attack.
I think whether we buy anyone or not next season against the likes of Man City and Man Utd we should play two more defensive players. Song and Coquelin or Song and Frimpong or Song and assorted other.
I also think that our midfield as a whole is working harder defensively than it was earlier in the season if we can maintain that then I'd rather we made sure we kept hold of Song by giving him a decent contract then had to splash large amounts of money on someone to come in and do his job and doesn't know the team when there are other areas of the team we need to strenghten first.
For that reason I'd prioritise his contract just ahead of Walcott's.
posted on 27/3/12
I agree JJG
posted on 27/3/12
http://yfrog.com/kl8ugiqj
Discussion over!
posted on 27/3/12
God, I can't help but be furiously aroused by that picture.
posted on 27/3/12
Melo - the couple of times Theo has been played as a striker he was Henry-esque with his finishing - the CL game against ... Sparta Prague maybe - I don't remember the team for sure, and against Chelsea in the cup final.
When he doesn't have to think about it his finishing is superb, he makes intelligent runs between the full back and the CB and can either round the keeper or slot it straight past the keeper which is what he tends to do. Walcott the striker is a different beast to Walcott the winger who is mediocre. He would score bucket loads for us if allowed to play further forward, I think Wenger recognises this hence him playing more as a forward than a winger.
JJG - I've played with pro ballers too
I've played with players from Enfield, I've played with players that were ex Arsenal schoolboys who dropped down a division or 2. In fact - I've played football with an England schoolboy as well. I know what separates pro ballers from semi pro, first touch, movement and speed of thought. I've played against midfielders who gave me the run around and others that were easy to play against. Song would fall into the category of big slow CM in my book. He doesn't have the speed of thought on the ball or across the ground to be good enough for what we need. I could plonk any number of decent big semi pro ballers in a DM role at Arsenal and you wouldn't see any difference between them and Song.
Don't forget, many footballers who could've played top level football didn't make it for different reasons not just making the grade, some had issues at home, some had attitude problems, some lost interest.
Here is a Youtube clip of one of the guys I have played with AND against, Jermaine Wynter, he's talking with Paolo Vernazza during an interview about their experiences in football - they were in the same youth team at Arsenal. Its only short:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BaYfFZhuOUs
I had no idea he had played against Totti for England !!
posted on 27/3/12
"Song would fall into the category of big slow CM in my book. He doesn't have the speed of thought on the ball or across the ground to be good enough for what we need. I could plonk any number of decent big semi pro ballers in a DM role at Arsenal and you wouldn't see any difference between them and Song."
This just patently isn't true.
posted on 27/3/12
JJG - I say that because he isn't tricky, he isn't quick, his passes are basic - apart from the odd through ball and he doesn't have great movement. He's clumsy too rather than having bite in his tackles.
Like I said, this is based on my experiences in football and what I found difficult/easy. Saying it isn't true doesn't make it so.
posted on 27/3/12
If Song could be replaced by any number of decent semi pro footballers why hasn't anyone done it? Why hasn't Wenger gone "hold on a minute, I could get some bloke from Croydon FC to do exactly the same job and pay him virtually nothing."
Because it's not true, that's why. We don't live in a Roy of the Rovers cartoon. We all have dreams that we could play at the top level if we'd made some different choices or had a bit of luck but the simple fact is the people who are good enough make it. The ones who aren't, don't.
Song is regularly playing against and with the best players in the world, if he could just be replaced by any old player it would be obvious.
I can understand people arguing he's not good enough for Arsenal but to be genuinely arguing that he's at the same level as non-league players is just laughable.
Page 2 of 4