I heard a rumour we pocket an extra £2-3 million from the Jones deal if United win the league? Anyone know if this is true?
Maybe Kean was ‘told’ to make sure United got all 3 points
I too was screaming our for him to bring someone on towards the end when we were looking tired. Something must be going on for him not to be using a single substitute.
now is the time to start reading into his backslap to Rooney at the final whistle, a bit too chummy? Did Venkys have a tenner on Utd to win the match? hmmmmm
Uuuuuuuuuuuuugh we did lose you know,,
It's all very well calling for substitutes, but you have to give specific cases. United increased their attacking power. What should Kean have done? Should he have kept the same balance? Should he have put the emphasis on more defence or greater attacking?
Kean might have taken off Yakubu for Modeste, but that would hardly have changed the balance of play. He might have replaced Pedersen, out of position on the right, with either Dunn or Petrovic. Either would have brought feesh legs, but Dunn is not a defensive player and I don't think Petrovic would have been much improvement.
Besides, the danger was from Valencia on the right wing. The Olssons had been reasonably disciplined during the game. Who could have come on to improve the situation on the left?
Kean's hands were tied. United had a much stronger bench. They simply had greater resources.
@Chicken Feed......
His hands were tied?
That's nonsense! If he had fresh legs on the bench he should use them, yes Utds bench is better than ours, of course it is, that's why they are champions and we are relegation candidates.
You use your substitutions in a wise manner, whatever options you have, especially when you are chasing shadows for 80 minutes, defensive or attacking, either would have given us fresh impetus.
Your attitude is so negative, why?
Kean has very good players at his disposal who he won't even allow on the bench, so if the bench is weaker than it could be it's his fault!
I don't see this as a negative attitude at all. If Rovers continue to play like that we will continue to pick up points.
Kean had more options in midfield and attack than in defence. United had by far the greater possession - 70% to Rovers' 30%. Their substitutions gave them greater attacking power. If Rovers had introduced players better at going forward, United would have found even more space to exploit.
Exactly which substitutions would you have made, and when? Would you have changed the defence? Henley had played in the Youth Cup in mid week - would you have brought him on to mark Rooney or Valencia? Would you have changed midfield or attack? Would it really have made a significant difference?
Before last night, United had won 9 of their last 10 league games - and drawn the other one. Surely all the opposing managers didn't get their tactics wrong. United have a bigger and better squad - perhaps that has something to do with it.
Kean has very good players at his disposal who he won't even allow on the bench, so if the bench is weaker than it could be it's his fault!
+++++++++
What utter rubbish name them
Well I'll start by naming Vukcevic and Salgado (Michel could've maybe gone into a DM position), admittedly he could've done without Givet being out and Goodwillie's court case. Add to this the experience he got rid of in January in the shape of Roberts, Andrews etc. and you realise why his bench is utter carp.
The fans drove Andrews out - you can't blame Kean for that! Kean was instructed not to play Salgado and Roberts - you can't blame him for that. Samba had had enough of the broken promises - you can't blame Kean for that. I'm sure Kean would have wanted Nelson to stay - so you can't blame him for that.
Rovers played well against United. If it wasn't for the brilliance of their keeper, Rovers would have gone in at half-time with a lead.
Just accept that United had better resources and look forward to the next game. You're simply looking for another stick to beat Kean with. This isn't one.
As one of Kean's biggest critics I generally agree with Chicken Feed on this one (other than your point about Nelsen).
It's easy to suggest we held for 80 mins but with fresh legs we'd have held for 90. United knew our attacks would become less and less and they'd be pushing for the 3 points. We needed to be disciplined, keep our shape and hope for the best.
Nearly but not quite...
Pretty obvious to me that substitutions were required from about 65 minutes on.
We were playing a top, top team, chasing shadows whilst they were enjoying high possession stats. It is far more tiring chasing the ball than playing with the ball and we needed to give a couple of our players a break.
I have seen enough of United over the years to believe they may still have won this game even if we made changes, but the Yak was cream crackered and any of Hoilett, Marcus or MGP could have been taken off for fresher legs.
Thats whats wrong with our team no-one can make decisive decisions or go for the jugular!Maybe we would have lost any ways but not making changes when it is needed almost sums our season up,its been a catologue of bad luck, tactics and ill judgement and the odd bad refs decisions .This sends teams down to lower leagues.
Where's McTeeth gone? He told me we were safe after those back to back wins!
Mr Mac will re appear no worries on that score!
"Where's McTeeth gone? He told me we were safe after those back to back wins!"
We were never safe. Two wins were never enough to paper over the cracks of the last 30 matches or so. We deserve to be bottom three and remain in trouble. We have been there all year and have found our rightful place under this management. Lets hope we can buck the trend on the last day of the season and get to fourth bottom.
Then we can herald Steve Kean and Venky's as the masterminds keeping us up. When in reality they have just been lowering expectations ever since they arrived.
@Chicken Feed.... and others of the same mentality....
We held on for 80 minutes, I'll grant you that, and some of your points regarding player exodus are valid.
However, you forget about what players we had before and concentrate on the players we have and the match at hand.
To that end, we were drawing, chasing shadows and players visibly knackered, logic dictates that you use whatever is available to bring on fresh legs, sometimes you win the game, sometimes you draw the game and sometimes you lose.
At that stage of the match the outcome is at least partly dictated by how wisely you use your substitutions.
Steve Kean was not wise on Monday.
In your view we should have just rolled over and taken it up the.... ?
That's the negative attitude, why do you bother watching/supporting if you know that we are just going to lose anyway?????
I'm with chicken feed on this. Yes bringing on subs would have helped with tiredness. But would it have been damaging to organisation and balance? I'm usually of the opinion of if it aint broke don't fix it. It wasn't broke for Rovers and Kean kept things the same. It was broke for Man U so Fergie changed it.
But I thought Rovers were defending excellently as a team and it was worth trying to hang on with what we had. All it takes is for a sub to not quite get up to the pace of the game quick enough, not be immediately switched on or not instantly work well with the players around him and that can make you conceed. Look at Norwich away this season, brought players on and conceeded 2.
Thats the story of our season what to do and when to do it.No matter how many good results this clown gets this season it still wont change things.Wrong man in the wrong job!
Let's agree that Rovers played well for 80 minutes and hope that they can play as well over this weekend. Three points would be good, more would be even better!
Fair enough. Agreed. :p .
I was proud of the way they played as each minute went by I thought its gonna happen now with MU.Scholes had complete control of the midfield never gave a bad pass,spot on with every ball not bad for a 37 year old.
"Let's agree that Rovers played well for 80 minutes and hope that they can play as well over this weekend."
Mmmmmm. I know what you are saying but United were comparatively poor compared to other years. That is the worst United team I can remember coming to Ewood for ages! We were not that good, as the possession stats show we just huffed and puffed and they failed to score early.
Forgetting Giggs / Scholes only 2 or 3 of that team would get in the United team of a decade or even 5 years ago. Rafael, Carrick, Wellbeck, Evans, De Gea, Hernandez, Jones etc are 2nd rate United players at best. Robbo had so little to do first half he was doing crosswords!
I think I am correct in saying they had only beaten us 2 or 3 times in the last 11 or 12 at Ewood which suggests they have historically found it a tough place to come.
Personally speaking I left this match disappointed and with the feeling we had not given everything in search of a win, but recognised we tried hard not to lose.
Unfortunately, the last 30 games or so have left us in a real mess and however tough a task it was, we needed to get some points against Man United at home as the league table reminds us all this morning. Attacking substitutions away at Bolton and at home to Man United would be pleasing when we go 1-0 down at least!!!!!
OOJW its a real catologue of disasters Sunderland and Norwich away, Everton at home and all the rest of the mismanagement,weve thrown a lot of silly and needless points away this season.
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Substitutions/General Management
Page 1 of 2
posted on 3/4/12
I heard a rumour we pocket an extra £2-3 million from the Jones deal if United win the league? Anyone know if this is true?
Maybe Kean was ‘told’ to make sure United got all 3 points
posted on 3/4/12
I too was screaming our for him to bring someone on towards the end when we were looking tired. Something must be going on for him not to be using a single substitute.
posted on 3/4/12
now is the time to start reading into his backslap to Rooney at the final whistle, a bit too chummy? Did Venkys have a tenner on Utd to win the match? hmmmmm
posted on 3/4/12
Uuuuuuuuuuuuugh we did lose you know,,
posted on 3/4/12
It's all very well calling for substitutes, but you have to give specific cases. United increased their attacking power. What should Kean have done? Should he have kept the same balance? Should he have put the emphasis on more defence or greater attacking?
Kean might have taken off Yakubu for Modeste, but that would hardly have changed the balance of play. He might have replaced Pedersen, out of position on the right, with either Dunn or Petrovic. Either would have brought feesh legs, but Dunn is not a defensive player and I don't think Petrovic would have been much improvement.
Besides, the danger was from Valencia on the right wing. The Olssons had been reasonably disciplined during the game. Who could have come on to improve the situation on the left?
Kean's hands were tied. United had a much stronger bench. They simply had greater resources.
posted on 3/4/12
@Chicken Feed......
His hands were tied?
That's nonsense! If he had fresh legs on the bench he should use them, yes Utds bench is better than ours, of course it is, that's why they are champions and we are relegation candidates.
You use your substitutions in a wise manner, whatever options you have, especially when you are chasing shadows for 80 minutes, defensive or attacking, either would have given us fresh impetus.
Your attitude is so negative, why?
posted on 3/4/12
Kean has very good players at his disposal who he won't even allow on the bench, so if the bench is weaker than it could be it's his fault!
posted on 3/4/12
I don't see this as a negative attitude at all. If Rovers continue to play like that we will continue to pick up points.
Kean had more options in midfield and attack than in defence. United had by far the greater possession - 70% to Rovers' 30%. Their substitutions gave them greater attacking power. If Rovers had introduced players better at going forward, United would have found even more space to exploit.
Exactly which substitutions would you have made, and when? Would you have changed the defence? Henley had played in the Youth Cup in mid week - would you have brought him on to mark Rooney or Valencia? Would you have changed midfield or attack? Would it really have made a significant difference?
Before last night, United had won 9 of their last 10 league games - and drawn the other one. Surely all the opposing managers didn't get their tactics wrong. United have a bigger and better squad - perhaps that has something to do with it.
posted on 3/4/12
Kean has very good players at his disposal who he won't even allow on the bench, so if the bench is weaker than it could be it's his fault!
+++++++++
What utter rubbish name them
posted on 4/4/12
Well I'll start by naming Vukcevic and Salgado (Michel could've maybe gone into a DM position), admittedly he could've done without Givet being out and Goodwillie's court case. Add to this the experience he got rid of in January in the shape of Roberts, Andrews etc. and you realise why his bench is utter carp.
posted on 4/4/12
The fans drove Andrews out - you can't blame Kean for that! Kean was instructed not to play Salgado and Roberts - you can't blame him for that. Samba had had enough of the broken promises - you can't blame Kean for that. I'm sure Kean would have wanted Nelson to stay - so you can't blame him for that.
Rovers played well against United. If it wasn't for the brilliance of their keeper, Rovers would have gone in at half-time with a lead.
Just accept that United had better resources and look forward to the next game. You're simply looking for another stick to beat Kean with. This isn't one.
posted on 4/4/12
As one of Kean's biggest critics I generally agree with Chicken Feed on this one (other than your point about Nelsen).
It's easy to suggest we held for 80 mins but with fresh legs we'd have held for 90. United knew our attacks would become less and less and they'd be pushing for the 3 points. We needed to be disciplined, keep our shape and hope for the best.
Nearly but not quite...
posted on 4/4/12
Pretty obvious to me that substitutions were required from about 65 minutes on.
We were playing a top, top team, chasing shadows whilst they were enjoying high possession stats. It is far more tiring chasing the ball than playing with the ball and we needed to give a couple of our players a break.
I have seen enough of United over the years to believe they may still have won this game even if we made changes, but the Yak was cream crackered and any of Hoilett, Marcus or MGP could have been taken off for fresher legs.
posted on 4/4/12
Thats whats wrong with our team no-one can make decisive decisions or go for the jugular!Maybe we would have lost any ways but not making changes when it is needed almost sums our season up,its been a catologue of bad luck, tactics and ill judgement and the odd bad refs decisions .This sends teams down to lower leagues.
posted on 4/4/12
Where's McTeeth gone? He told me we were safe after those back to back wins!
posted on 4/4/12
Mr Mac will re appear no worries on that score!
posted on 4/4/12
"Where's McTeeth gone? He told me we were safe after those back to back wins!"
We were never safe. Two wins were never enough to paper over the cracks of the last 30 matches or so. We deserve to be bottom three and remain in trouble. We have been there all year and have found our rightful place under this management. Lets hope we can buck the trend on the last day of the season and get to fourth bottom.
Then we can herald Steve Kean and Venky's as the masterminds keeping us up. When in reality they have just been lowering expectations ever since they arrived.
posted on 4/4/12
@Chicken Feed.... and others of the same mentality....
We held on for 80 minutes, I'll grant you that, and some of your points regarding player exodus are valid.
However, you forget about what players we had before and concentrate on the players we have and the match at hand.
To that end, we were drawing, chasing shadows and players visibly knackered, logic dictates that you use whatever is available to bring on fresh legs, sometimes you win the game, sometimes you draw the game and sometimes you lose.
At that stage of the match the outcome is at least partly dictated by how wisely you use your substitutions.
Steve Kean was not wise on Monday.
In your view we should have just rolled over and taken it up the.... ?
That's the negative attitude, why do you bother watching/supporting if you know that we are just going to lose anyway?????
posted on 4/4/12
I'm with chicken feed on this. Yes bringing on subs would have helped with tiredness. But would it have been damaging to organisation and balance? I'm usually of the opinion of if it aint broke don't fix it. It wasn't broke for Rovers and Kean kept things the same. It was broke for Man U so Fergie changed it.
But I thought Rovers were defending excellently as a team and it was worth trying to hang on with what we had. All it takes is for a sub to not quite get up to the pace of the game quick enough, not be immediately switched on or not instantly work well with the players around him and that can make you conceed. Look at Norwich away this season, brought players on and conceeded 2.
posted on 4/4/12
Thats the story of our season what to do and when to do it.No matter how many good results this clown gets this season it still wont change things.Wrong man in the wrong job!
posted on 4/4/12
Let's agree that Rovers played well for 80 minutes and hope that they can play as well over this weekend. Three points would be good, more would be even better!
posted on 4/4/12
Fair enough. Agreed. :p .
posted on 4/4/12
I was proud of the way they played as each minute went by I thought its gonna happen now with MU.Scholes had complete control of the midfield never gave a bad pass,spot on with every ball not bad for a 37 year old.
posted on 4/4/12
"Let's agree that Rovers played well for 80 minutes and hope that they can play as well over this weekend."
Mmmmmm. I know what you are saying but United were comparatively poor compared to other years. That is the worst United team I can remember coming to Ewood for ages! We were not that good, as the possession stats show we just huffed and puffed and they failed to score early.
Forgetting Giggs / Scholes only 2 or 3 of that team would get in the United team of a decade or even 5 years ago. Rafael, Carrick, Wellbeck, Evans, De Gea, Hernandez, Jones etc are 2nd rate United players at best. Robbo had so little to do first half he was doing crosswords!
I think I am correct in saying they had only beaten us 2 or 3 times in the last 11 or 12 at Ewood which suggests they have historically found it a tough place to come.
Personally speaking I left this match disappointed and with the feeling we had not given everything in search of a win, but recognised we tried hard not to lose.
Unfortunately, the last 30 games or so have left us in a real mess and however tough a task it was, we needed to get some points against Man United at home as the league table reminds us all this morning. Attacking substitutions away at Bolton and at home to Man United would be pleasing when we go 1-0 down at least!!!!!
posted on 4/4/12
OOJW its a real catologue of disasters Sunderland and Norwich away, Everton at home and all the rest of the mismanagement,weve thrown a lot of silly and needless points away this season.
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