I asked if you personally believe City will not win the league in the next couple of seasons.
---------------------------------------------------------------
And my answer is that I don´t know.
Sorry if you have a problem with that.
I like to work with facts not predictions about the future as anything can happen in the future.
The fact is that City only have 1 FA Cup to show for a half a billion investment on players so I would imagine they would need to spend plenty more to have any chance of realistically winning a title.
Is a Johnstone's Paint Trophy worth more than 2nd in the PL?
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I´m not talking about the Johnstone's Paint Trophy and I´ve got no idea why you are either.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
So I would say that the public consensus is that trophies is undoubtedly a measure of success (whether we agree with that or not).
---------------------
Johnstone's Paint Trophy is undeniably a trophy and therefore under this public consensus would be worth more than 2nd in the PL.
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Mate if you want a proper football discussion I´m all ears and ready to discuss.
If you want to start talking gobbledigook about non-league trophies that have nothing to do with Premiership clubs then I think I´ll have to respectfully decline answering your posts.
Appreciate all the contructive input from other posters though
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Gazza you need to add smileys with your "jokes" !
>>The fact is that City only have 1 FA Cup to show for a half a billion investment on players so I would imagine they would need to spend plenty more to have any chance of realistically winning a title.
I find this comment ridiculous
they realistically had a chance up until yesterday. Still have an outside chance.
They've got the players. They just need time. I'd say a new manager as well.
However that is not a particularly clever method as 2007/08 was undeniably a successful season for us but we didn't actually win anything.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Are you saying that finishing second in the league and losing the Champions League Final can be considered a successful season for Chelsea ?
Please explain ......
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
The fact is that City only have 1 FA Cup to show for a half a billion investment on players so I would imagine they would need to spend plenty more to have any chance of realistically winning a title.
--------------------------------------------------------------
I find this comment ridiculous
---------------------------------------------------------------
What part do you find ridiculous exactly ?
The fact that City only have 1 FA Cup to show for a half a billion investment or that I´m suggesting that they will probably need to spend more to actually win the title ?
Surely logic would dictate that City will have to spend more in order to win the title.
If that is such a ridiculous comment then maybe you can argue with Mancini who has also said as much in recent days:
http://www.espn.co.uk/football/sport/story/145073.html
>>or that I´m suggesting that they will probably need to spend more to actually win the title ?
Surely logic would dictate that City will have to spend more in order to win the title.
No, Manu beat them with inferior players in nearly every position. They were more of a team is all. And have a better manager.
I think counting trophies this soon into a nearly completely new side is grossly premature.
Gazza >
In football success is measured by trophies won and that is just the way it is whether or not you or I like it.
After the amount of money we spent on players I think you would have to go a very long way to find anyone who would agree with you that Chelsea finishing 2nd and getting to a Champions League Final could be considered a successful season.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
I'm going to disagree with superb. It is not logical to say they'll need to spend A LOT MORE. Many teams in the past have proven that time is as necessary as money. Mourinho has done a lot for Madrid but is undoubtedly prospering from the fact that Benzema, Higuain and Ronaldo as well as Kaka already had a year to blend before his arrival. The next year only 80 mil was needed to win the copa del rey from one of the best teams ever and this year they could take the league and Champions league after spendin about 40 mil extra. This while Barca have spent similar amounts in the last two years on Villa, Sanchez and Fabregas. So using this logic, City might not even need to spend much next season but could end up with the domestic treble.
Superb therefore Liverpool if they finish 8th with the CC were therefore more successful than us in 2008 coming 2nd and reaching the CL final?
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Yes.
Liverpool will finish the season with a Carling Cup and back in 2008 we finished with nothing.
Having said that Liverpool finishing 7th or 8th takes away most of the glory and shine off winning the Carling Cup as they should be doing much better in the table - especially after spending 100 million under Kenny.
Gazza >
By the way have you managed to find anyone who agrees with you that Chelsea finishing 2nd and losing the Champions League Final in 2008 can be considered a successful season ?
If Liverpool finish 4th next season and win no trophies I'd consider that a much more successful season even if we win the FA Cup this year as well.
Qualifying for the CL is a much bigger 'trophy' than all the domestic cups combined.
I don't like it, but I think it's very true these days.
>>By the way have you managed to find anyone who agrees with you that Chelsea finishing 2nd and losing the Champions League Final in 2008 can be considered a successful season ?
I do
If Liverpool finish 4th next season and win no trophies I'd consider that a much more successful season even if we win the FA Cup this year as well.
------------------------------------------------------------------
But are you saying that as a Liverpool fan who is desperate to get back into the Champions League having not been there for a few years ?
Would you be saying the same thing if Liverpool had been playing Champions League football in recent years ?
>>By the way have you managed to find anyone who agrees with you that Chelsea finishing 2nd and losing the Champions League Final in 2008 can be considered a successful season ?
------------------------------------------------------------------
I do
----------------------------------------------------------------
Please explain redconn .........
I've always thought top4 was the first priority above a domestic cup. In the last ten years or so at least.
Qualifying for the CL is a much bigger 'trophy' than all the domestic cups combined.
------------------------------------------------------------------
If that is the case then football is in a very very sad state of affairs and something needs to change.
Maybe Champions League football should only be offered to teams that finish 1st or 2nd in their repsective leagues.
Finishing 4th in your league should never be considered a success and if it is then something is drastically wrong.
>>Please explain
player perception.
in order to keep your existing top players and attract the best, you must be viewed as a top side capable of one of the only 4 trophies really worth winning (prem, CL, la liga and Serie A).
Making a CL final and finishing second most definitely keeps you on the radar and acceptable to your stars.
>>Finishing 4th in your league should never be considered a success and if it is then something is drastically wrong.
you're probably right. I didn't say I liked it, just that it is.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
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posted on 9/4/12
I asked if you personally believe City will not win the league in the next couple of seasons.
---------------------------------------------------------------
And my answer is that I don´t know.
Sorry if you have a problem with that.
I like to work with facts not predictions about the future as anything can happen in the future.
The fact is that City only have 1 FA Cup to show for a half a billion investment on players so I would imagine they would need to spend plenty more to have any chance of realistically winning a title.
posted on 9/4/12
Is a Johnstone's Paint Trophy worth more than 2nd in the PL?
----------------------------------------------------------------
I´m not talking about the Johnstone's Paint Trophy and I´ve got no idea why you are either.
posted on 9/4/12
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 9/4/12
So I would say that the public consensus is that trophies is undoubtedly a measure of success (whether we agree with that or not).
---------------------
Johnstone's Paint Trophy is undeniably a trophy and therefore under this public consensus would be worth more than 2nd in the PL.
------------------------------------------------------------------
Mate if you want a proper football discussion I´m all ears and ready to discuss.
If you want to start talking gobbledigook about non-league trophies that have nothing to do with Premiership clubs then I think I´ll have to respectfully decline answering your posts.
Appreciate all the contructive input from other posters though
posted on 9/4/12
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 9/4/12
Gazza you need to add smileys with your "jokes" !
posted on 9/4/12
>>The fact is that City only have 1 FA Cup to show for a half a billion investment on players so I would imagine they would need to spend plenty more to have any chance of realistically winning a title.
I find this comment ridiculous
they realistically had a chance up until yesterday. Still have an outside chance.
They've got the players. They just need time. I'd say a new manager as well.
posted on 9/4/12
However that is not a particularly clever method as 2007/08 was undeniably a successful season for us but we didn't actually win anything.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Are you saying that finishing second in the league and losing the Champions League Final can be considered a successful season for Chelsea ?
Please explain ......
posted on 9/4/12
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 9/4/12
The fact is that City only have 1 FA Cup to show for a half a billion investment on players so I would imagine they would need to spend plenty more to have any chance of realistically winning a title.
--------------------------------------------------------------
I find this comment ridiculous
---------------------------------------------------------------
What part do you find ridiculous exactly ?
The fact that City only have 1 FA Cup to show for a half a billion investment or that I´m suggesting that they will probably need to spend more to actually win the title ?
Surely logic would dictate that City will have to spend more in order to win the title.
If that is such a ridiculous comment then maybe you can argue with Mancini who has also said as much in recent days:
http://www.espn.co.uk/football/sport/story/145073.html
posted on 9/4/12
>>or that I´m suggesting that they will probably need to spend more to actually win the title ?
Surely logic would dictate that City will have to spend more in order to win the title.
No, Manu beat them with inferior players in nearly every position. They were more of a team is all. And have a better manager.
I think counting trophies this soon into a nearly completely new side is grossly premature.
posted on 9/4/12
Gazza >
In football success is measured by trophies won and that is just the way it is whether or not you or I like it.
After the amount of money we spent on players I think you would have to go a very long way to find anyone who would agree with you that Chelsea finishing 2nd and getting to a Champions League Final could be considered a successful season.
posted on 9/4/12
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 9/4/12
I'm going to disagree with superb. It is not logical to say they'll need to spend A LOT MORE. Many teams in the past have proven that time is as necessary as money. Mourinho has done a lot for Madrid but is undoubtedly prospering from the fact that Benzema, Higuain and Ronaldo as well as Kaka already had a year to blend before his arrival. The next year only 80 mil was needed to win the copa del rey from one of the best teams ever and this year they could take the league and Champions league after spendin about 40 mil extra. This while Barca have spent similar amounts in the last two years on Villa, Sanchez and Fabregas. So using this logic, City might not even need to spend much next season but could end up with the domestic treble.
posted on 9/4/12
Superb therefore Liverpool if they finish 8th with the CC were therefore more successful than us in 2008 coming 2nd and reaching the CL final?
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes.
Liverpool will finish the season with a Carling Cup and back in 2008 we finished with nothing.
Having said that Liverpool finishing 7th or 8th takes away most of the glory and shine off winning the Carling Cup as they should be doing much better in the table - especially after spending 100 million under Kenny.
posted on 9/4/12
Gazza >
By the way have you managed to find anyone who agrees with you that Chelsea finishing 2nd and losing the Champions League Final in 2008 can be considered a successful season ?
posted on 9/4/12
If Liverpool finish 4th next season and win no trophies I'd consider that a much more successful season even if we win the FA Cup this year as well.
Qualifying for the CL is a much bigger 'trophy' than all the domestic cups combined.
I don't like it, but I think it's very true these days.
posted on 9/4/12
>>By the way have you managed to find anyone who agrees with you that Chelsea finishing 2nd and losing the Champions League Final in 2008 can be considered a successful season ?
I do
posted on 9/4/12
If Liverpool finish 4th next season and win no trophies I'd consider that a much more successful season even if we win the FA Cup this year as well.
------------------------------------------------------------------
But are you saying that as a Liverpool fan who is desperate to get back into the Champions League having not been there for a few years ?
Would you be saying the same thing if Liverpool had been playing Champions League football in recent years ?
posted on 9/4/12
>>By the way have you managed to find anyone who agrees with you that Chelsea finishing 2nd and losing the Champions League Final in 2008 can be considered a successful season ?
------------------------------------------------------------------
I do
----------------------------------------------------------------
Please explain redconn .........
posted on 9/4/12
I've always thought top4 was the first priority above a domestic cup. In the last ten years or so at least.
posted on 9/4/12
Qualifying for the CL is a much bigger 'trophy' than all the domestic cups combined.
------------------------------------------------------------------
If that is the case then football is in a very very sad state of affairs and something needs to change.
Maybe Champions League football should only be offered to teams that finish 1st or 2nd in their repsective leagues.
Finishing 4th in your league should never be considered a success and if it is then something is drastically wrong.
posted on 9/4/12
>>Please explain
player perception.
in order to keep your existing top players and attract the best, you must be viewed as a top side capable of one of the only 4 trophies really worth winning (prem, CL, la liga and Serie A).
Making a CL final and finishing second most definitely keeps you on the radar and acceptable to your stars.
posted on 9/4/12
>>Finishing 4th in your league should never be considered a success and if it is then something is drastically wrong.
you're probably right. I didn't say I liked it, just that it is.
posted on 9/4/12
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
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