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The Haven

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posted on 24/9/12

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2207719/Branislav-Ivanovic-says-Chelseas-game-Arsenal-biggest-challenge-far.html

posted on 24/9/12

Telegraph did a Q and A on the matters regarding JT. Even though its clear the guy answering the Qs hates JT, there are still a lot of interesting thnigs here...

Q. If JT is found guilty of the charges the FA has brought against him, can he appeal? Is there going to be another saga involving the Court of Arbitration for sport?

A. Yes he can. The appeals process is the same for any disciplinary charge. He can appeal the charge to the FA's appeals panel. If that also were to find against him, he could then go to CAS, whose decision is binding as the highest court in sport.

In theory, the FA could also appeal its own disciplinary panel's findings if it doesn't like the verdict. Uefa has done so in the past.

Q. What kind of punishment can Terry expect if he's found guilty?

A It is difficult to speculate. There are perhaps elements of mitigation that might be adduced to the hearing today. Luis Suarez was found guilty of using a racially abusive term towards Patrice Evra and was given an eight-match ban. He did not appeal.

Q. Did FA force Terry's hand and make him quit? Can't believe John 'I'll never quit England' Terry would make decision on his own.

A. I can't answer that with any degree of knowledge. I very much doubt it though. Roy Hodgson was explicit in his support of Terry, which I found troubling to be honest.

The FA has a twin responsibility: one for regulatory matters such as on-pitch discipline, by which this hearing is covered, and the other for commercial elements, which include the England team.

This presents an intrinsic conflict of interest that Hodgson's comments exposed.


Q. Why didn't Anton get any charge from the FA? He may potentially be a victim of racist abuse, but surely he has brought the game into disrepute as well in what he said to Terry?

The point is there is no direct evidence of what Anton Ferdinand said to John Terry. That was what Terry's defence hinged on in the criminal trial. He claims he heard Ferdinand accuse him of having called Ferdinand a term I need not repeat here.

Terry was shown from a number of camera angles using that term. But the Ferdinand comment that supposedly provoked it was not captured on film.

Q. It has taken eleven months to get to this stage- could the FA have done better to speed up the process?

A. The FA says it was asked by the Crown Prosecution Service not to proceed with its case until after the criminal trial had taken place. It acceded to that request.

It was not, however, legally bound to do so. The case was heard before a Magistrate's court, and the magistrate could not be influenced by the findings of any prior FA disciplinary case.

The International Cricket Council pursued its case against the match-fixers Salman Butt, Mohamed Asif and Mohamed Amir despite the ongoing criminal investigation. And that went before a jury trial, where there is a risk of prejudice.

In short: if the FA had wanted to it could have pursued the hearing long ago. It didn't, and the happy corollary for the FA's commercial interests was that Terry was available for selection at Euro 2012 and the recent World Cup qualifiers.

Q. Since when the FA grow a pair?? Seriously, didn't they use to back away from choppy waters, with big names etc... has that changed because of new chairman etc?

A. That's a very interesting question. Certainly the FA has improved in its enforcement of its rules. But a lot of very influential people believe it still has a long way to go.

Q. How do you think terry's decision will play in the england dressing room? Does he have any friends left?

A. Ashley Cole is certainly by his side. He was in the courtroom and he is due to give evidence at Wembley today. Interestingly some Chelsea players did not put their names to the generic character-witness statement that was put before the criminal trial.

I know from what people closer to the players than me say that there has been a good deal of disquiet among some senior England footballers about the way the FA — and Hodgson in particular — has handled this matter.

Q. The FA has allegedly been put under a fair bit of pressure by various anti-racism groups, who are wanting a conviction. However, doesn't it seem wrong to you that people are seeking a conviction for the sake of a conviction, even if there isn't enough evidence to charge him?

A. There is good reason to believe there is plenty of evidence to charge Terry. George Carter-Stephenson QC, Terry's own counsel, gave great weight to the "criminal standard", the burden of proof required for a criminal conviction, in his summing up to the court.

He introduced doubt to the facts before the court, and it was deemed sufficient to acquit on a criminal basis. The FA has a different burden of proof. Its disciplinary standard is tested on the balance of probabilities, or to the "comfortable satisfaction" of the panel.

Initially Carter-Stephenson QC asked for the court to throw out the case on a "no case to answer" defence. The chief magistrate, Howard Riddle, said he had "no hesitation" in denying that application. That might tell us something about the challenge Terry faces before the disciplinary panel today.

Q. What does John Terry bring to the captaincy which regardless of the continued campaign of certain members of the press to drop him for the Euros (Henry Winter) be continues to be suported by past and present England Managers (McLaren, Capello, Hodgson)?

A. John Terry's leadership qualities were recognised at the earliest age. He was Chelsea captain at, what, 23? But if a wide constituency of England players consider him to be a controversial character then he might be compromised as England captain, even as an England player.

Perhaps that might explain his pre-emptive retirement statement today.

Q. You rightly say that the FA does assess things on a 'balance of probability'. Do you think that is an appropriate criteria for finding someone gulty of an offence, especially when so much is on the line? Should the FA re-think this?

A. That is a very interesting question. The FA's right to consider its disciplinary processes — professional misconduct charges — is well enshrined in established arbitration procedures. But if this one goes against him it will be a tremendous stain on his character.

I guess the most applicable parallel would be how does a sexual-harrassment industrial tribunal case besmirch the reputation of the defendant?

The FA is aware of this, and so are sport's other courts. CAS gave a recent decision about Mohamed Bin Hammam, the former Fifa executive-committee member, who had been accused of bribing Fifa officials as he stood for the Fifa presidency. It tried his appeal on the "comfortable satisfaction" standard. As I say, this is quite established practice.

Q. Now that Terry is no longer part of the England set-up, is there a way back into the fold for Rio Ferdinand? Or did he burn all the bridges this summmer, through his comments on twitter about not being selected, and then about Ashley Cole?

A. Roy Hodgson said he had declined to pick Rio "for football reasons". We don't know exactly what they were, because Hodgson declined to explain them.

I guess if his "football reasons" change, then there is in theory a way back for him. It's all down to the manager of course.

I don't see the Twitter row about Cole being relevant: he faced a disciplinary process of his own following them and was heavily fined. The matter is now closed.

Q. Mr Scott your answers to questions to this point clearly infer serious disdain for Terry. When have you personally ever seen heard took reliable information suggested John Terry has one racist bone in his body?

A. As an adjunct to my 1:35 post though: I do think it instructive that Gordon Taylor of the PFA says the row between Ferdinand and Terry has taken on the characteristics of a mafia feud. Hodgson's in the middle of it.


Peter: I am trying to explain the facts of the case and the process. If your inference is that I have disdain for him then it was not by intended implication.

Q. Matt - What do you think about the fact it seems to be OK to aggressively swear and insult fellow players?

A. The FA under Brian Barwick and Lord Triesman recognised this was a major problem for the game, and it introduced its Respect campaign as a result.

I think the culture of swearing in football is completely unnecessary and the potty-mouthed behaviours of almost everyone involved in the QPR-Chelsea game last season were despicably on show in the criminal trial. You might argue that this culture is counterproductive to the England team: it certainly lacks composure in international tournaments and perhaps this undiluted aggression might contribute. But that is a very long debate for another day!

Q. Is the charge against Terry the same as the one faced by Rio Ferdinand for the Choc Ice comments?

A. The two charges can be seen here:

http://www.thefa.com/TheFA/Disciplinary/NewsAndFeatures/2012/rio-ferdinand-charged-july

and here:

http://www.thefa.com/TheFA/NewsAndFeatures/2012/john-terry-charged.aspx
Monday September 24, 2012 1:44 Matt Scott

Q. Assume Terry is found guilty, not exactly a Nostradamus prediction given the FA's conviction rate of 99.5%, what do you think Chelsea, as a club, should do?

A. I think if Terry is found guilty — and currently it must be stressed that no verdict has yet been delivered — Chelsea should open their own disciplinary procedures against him. After all, it would reflect ill on the club by association.

I very much doubt this would take place, however. Football is riddled with conflicts, and the fact that players are multimillion-pound assets but carry all the troublesome proclivities of aggressive young men is perhaps chief among them. It means the commercial imperative normally prevails.

Q. Isn't this more a case of the FA bowing to media pressure and trying to find a charge that can "stick"? The FA's rules state quite clearly that Terry cannot be tried by themselves on a charge that has already gone through the courts? And can we look forward to every other footballer who uses industrial language being hauled up in front of their committees?

A. Your question is highly interpretative. The FA's rules do not state that clearly. Indeed, this is likely to be the central tenet of the defence argument today.

What the FA must not do is to depart from the evidence established in the courts if that evidence is raised in the hearing today.

It is perfectly legitimate for any employer to bring professional misconduct charges against an employee when that employee has been through a criminal procedure.

Were that not to be the case we would not have seen this:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/sep/17/simon-harwood-sacked-gross-misconduct?newsfeed=true

Regrettably, as mentioned before, there is little chance of the employer taking the initiative, therefore the FA has to do so.

I hope that if there is industrial language used on the field of play which appears to be racially aggravated that they are hauled up before the beak. That kind of language requires explanation. It is for the evidence to be tested before a hearing like today's and for everyone to abide by the outcome (subject to appeal etc).

Q. What are your views on the way that A Ferdinand and R Ferdinand have treated A Cole during all this? Surely victimising him for telling the truth rather than lying under oath is a far more serious problem and should have been taken much more seriously by the FA, particularly as far as the "handshake" saga goes.

A. As I said before, it is very worrying when the PFA chief executive talks of "mafia feuds". This is why there has to be a very clear and unimpeachable procedural process, well communicated, that the regulator follows to the letter in every case. I'm not entirely sure we've seen that here.

Q. If John Terry somehow manages to avoid conviction from the FA, has his repuation still been damaged beyond repair?

A. No. He will have been acquitted by the courts and by the disciplinary procedures. If the FA chooses to let the matter rest without pursuing it further through appeals or through CAS, all parties should accept those findings.

But whatever the outcome it should not prevent a close examination of the prevailing procedures and the way the FA has handled them. Regulation must be organic and must learn from its every experience.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/england/9562446/John-Terry-retires-from-international-football-live-webchat-with-Matt-Scott.html

posted on 24/9/12

Italian source CalcioMercato believe Bundesliga champions Borussia Dortmund have joined the race to sign Arsenal contract rebel Theo Walcott.

Dortmund boss Jurgen Klopp is apparently interested in signing the 23 year old, who’s contract comes to an end next summer, leaving the England man vulnerable to a possible cut-price move away from the Emirates Stadium.

posted on 24/9/12

Liverpool offer Ricardo Quaresma second chance in Premier League

The 28-year-old Portuguese winger has less than 12 months left to run on his current deal with Besiktas.

Quaresma is currently training with the club’s youth team after an ugly spat with chairman Fikret Orman last week, in which Orman told the player he would ‘finish his career’ during a row over the winger’s refusal to pen a contract extension.

The indiscipline has not put off Liverpool boss Brendan Rodgers though, who tried to rescue the Sporting Libson product from his Turkish nightmare during the summer, only to baulk at Besiktas’s £7 million asking price.

However, with Quaresma refusing to sign on after rejecting their latest contract offer over the weekend, Rodgers is ready to open talks over a pre-contract agreement in January.

The Reds could offer the winger attractive terms on a two-year-deal, with no transfer fee meaning they could match his current £80,000-a-week wages in Turkey

posted on 24/9/12

Newcastle will go back in for Mathieu Debuchy in the January transfer window – and are confident they can finally land the Lille star.

Magpies boss Alan Pardew pursued Debuchy for most of the summer but Lille held firm and kept their man.

Newcastle remain keen, however, and Pardew has receiving encouraging signs from the Ligue Un club to suggest this time they will be successful in their bid for Debuchy

posted on 24/9/12

ARSENAL are expected to release figures any day now which will show Arsene Wenger is sitting on at least £50MILLION of cash.

Despite the team’s decent start, some fans want to know why he has not invested more money in the squad.

Accounts for last season will confirm Arsenal again made a profit in the transfer market, thanks to the sales of Cesc Fabregas and Samir Nasri.

The books will say the Gunners had well over £100m in the bank at the year end of May 31, 2012. But that will include most of their season ticket revenue for 2012-13, a big chunk of which will go to cover current operating costs.

Financially savvy Gooners will look also at the net debt and expect to calculate Wenger has £50m or more stashed away – excluding the expected £25m windfall from the Queensland Road development

posted on 24/9/12

Italian source CalcioMercato are reporting that West Ham forward Carlton Cole is set for an Upton Park exit in January and suggest that Liverpool could well be in the running to sign the England international.

Whilst it’s true that Brendan Rodgers does not have an extensive supply of striking options a move to sign the 28 year old Hammers man is a little hard to swallow, however it is true that the Anfield side have been consistently linked with interest in the hard working, if hardly prolific, forward over the years.

posted on 24/9/12

John Terry leaves FA hearing at Wembley -more details coming up on - SSN.

posted on 24/9/12

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posted on 24/9/12

Gazza - No doubt he will. If he is charged by the F.A with that, it then puts a question mark over the club. But if he is charged with that i can imagine that there is literally less than an hour between the F.A giving their decision, and Terry accepting or appealing.

posted on 24/9/12

Comment deleted by Site Moderator

posted on 24/9/12

In a way with Terry's decision, on one level, i am happy, it means he can give (not that he didn't already) everything to Chelsea, but there's a lot less chance he will get an injury and there's obviously going to be less stress on his body.

But at the same time I'm very disappointed it came to this. As i said last night, i wouldn't at all be surprised if Terry has been told he will be found not guilty if he quits the international scene. It will just be a slagging match between him and the F.A and nothing else (if that was the option).

posted on 24/9/12

Comment deleted by Site Moderator

posted on 24/9/12

Wouldn't be surprised. Despite peoples opinions on JT (other supporters) quite a few have said that it's a farce that it's gone this far. Been a witch hunt ever since the trial. It does make you wonder if the F.A were secretly hoping he would be found guilty.

A lot of people are saying Terry is a coward for retiring and not waiting for the verdict. But it was always there.

posted on 24/9/12

Regardless of all the rights and wrongs I just cant see anything but a guilty verdict.

If he is found not guilty the anti racism campainers will crucify the FA and they are to weak to stand up to them.

posted on 24/9/12

Comment deleted by Site Moderator

posted on 24/9/12

Gazza - I don't think the F.A can really come out of this as winners. If Terry hadn't of stepped down then they still had something to cling on to to show to everyone that they aren't afraid to make an example. But as it has gone the way it is they have already lost what little reputation they had left imo. Obviously you'll get the group that dislike Terry for off field actions who will praise the F.A. But a large majority have already condemned the F.A.

posted on 24/9/12

Twitter - PSG are ready to break the world transfer record with an £85m January bid for Neymar with wages of £300,000 per week

posted on 24/9/12

Wow,

For a 5 yr contract thats £78 million in wages alone, and we think we have potential problems with the FFP rules

posted on 24/9/12

Reports that Agger could be back in training in the next two weeks after his injury against Man United.

posted on 24/9/12

Comment deleted by Site Moderator

comment by Obers (U3904)

posted on 24/9/12

PSG are crazy!

comment by CSTP (U1453)

posted on 24/9/12

What I don't get is why Neymar signed a contract till 2014 if he wouldn't rather join a European club before then.

posted on 24/9/12

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posted on 24/9/12

Sturridge still out with Hamstring injury according to the Mirror.
Moses upfront for me then.

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