Bit naive to think finance won't play a part, rightly or wrongly.
Welcome to ja606 btw.
Maybe the smaller clubs should all tender their resignation from the SPL (and mean it this time) and leave the old firm to play each other 36 times a season
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
If Rangers get favourable treatment the clubs will have voted for it as it will suit their particular club, so why would they tender resignations?
If we come back as a new co I would be happy to go to division three and build again, however many chairman will not want to lose the money generated by Rangers fans or take a TV deal that will be greatly reduced.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Thanks for the welcome atheist.
I realise finance will play a part but if the banks are dictating the way the Scottish game goes then we really are in trouble. The fans, the source of wealth really due to their tv subscriptions, purchase of clubs goods etc, have then just become an irrellevence
If the fans decide to walk away then the future of the game is even bleaker.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Man with the stick
I accept that if Rangers get favourable treatment the it is most likely that the clubs will have voted for it but my point is that if the original comments are true and the banks decide to force the issue then the clubs that vote for it are nor listening to what the majority of the fans 'APPEAR' to be saying but are being forced into a voting pattern that most of the fans of smaller clubs do not want
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Money talks I'm afraid mate
I'm a bear and to be quite honest, if we do liquidate, I want us to be turfed out of the SPL and to start again in division three after reapplying along with the rest.
For me, thats the fairest way of doing things.
If it was down to the fans, this is what would happen.
Unfortunately its not, and you have to look at the chairmen of ALL the SPL clubs and blame them along with the governing bodies if this does not happen.
You are a United fan....your chairmen charged Rangers fans full price for a game of football that was abandoned at half time, then another £12 for the rescheduled game while letting United season ticket holders in for free.
Its a typical example of the kind of thinking some SPL chairmen have
comment by ohspecialone (U14161) posted 2 minutes ago
Man with the stick
I accept that if Rangers get favourable treatment the it is most likely that the clubs will have voted for it but my point is that if the original comments are true and the banks decide to force the issue then the clubs that vote for it are nor listening to what the majority of the fans 'APPEAR' to be saying but are being forced into a voting pattern that most of the fans of smaller clubs do not want
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
If banks can call the shots then clubs have been running in a way that they have bvecome too reliant on them.
You will find many Rangers fans on here like St3vie who would rather go through the proper channels if we come back as a new co unfortunately that may not be in the best interests of other SPL clubs.
St3Vie
I agree that recharging for an abandoned game was really bad.
The decisions made by all chairmen appear to have helped to have helped to drag the Scottish game down a few notched. I have had the good fortune to watch the Scottish teams play in European games (from abroad while on business or holiday). The commentators in these countries spend their time belittling the standard of our game and that includes the old firm.
I remember when the SPL was created they said that it was going to be good for the standard of Scottish football. That has not happened.
I remember when Fegus McCann and David Murray were arguing for big changes in the split of the financial cake to be changed to favour the old firm. They intimated that it would make them and thus Scottish football a better place to be.
I remember when they voted to split the league ofter 3 games they said it would provide more competetive games and better football to watch. Don't think so.
I could probably go on. At every turn the Scottish fans voiced doubts about the move but decisions were made.
We have an opportunity to clean up our game here and make changes for the better. However after the next vote I expect to see a photo of 11 chairmen standing in a row outside hampden witht their heads buried in teh ground
Scottish Football cannot survive anyway.
The product has been in decline for years, yet the pricing has maintained and sometimes even increased. It wouldn't happen with any other form of entertainment, but with football it does and it is no wonder fans are walking away.
Chairman would rather charge £30 to 3,000 people, than £11 to 8,000 people. There in lies the problem, a product cannot continually decline and the pricing remain the same. The fans are ignored in this Self Preservation League.
If it were up to me, I would completely overhaul the Scottish game.
*A 16 team SPL with play-offs. (13th SPL1 vs 2nd, 3rd, 4th SPL2)
*Equal share of Television Revenue.
*Ground-sharing to save costs, it's ridiculous that we have 42 teams and I think all have different grounds.
*14 team SPL2
*12 team SPL 3.
*Regional Non-League.
*Children go free with every adult for certain games in a particular category (e.g St Mirren, Dunfermline etc)
Henrik
Agree with you all of the way. The future of the game is the kids and we do our best to drive them away. I would say that kids go free in all games although maybe restric this to the 500 in old firm games. The change however must extend to tv. The coverage of the SPL on terrestial tv in minimal. 30 minutes at a time of night when kids are in bed while the EPL has a highlighs package for 90 minutes on Saturday night repeated on a Sunday morning. We need to make the game much more visible and accessable to the young fans otherwise we are dead in the water
Thats exactly it mate.
Just about evey single football fan I know thinks it would be a good idea to make the top division in Scotland a bigger league with more teams in it.
The SPL bigwigs and club chairmen were seriously talking about REDUCING the size of the league to 10 teams!!
The input from the fans clearly means $hit to these people, whats better financially for the short term is pretty much all they appear to be interested in.
What we need are people like Phil Gartside, the Bolton chairman.
He has always been for the old firm joining the premier league despite the fact his own club Bolton could suffer as a result.
The football has to come first again for things to improve....but its the same story pretty much all around Europe these days.....money is the driving factor these days, not the sport, and the result is the rich getting richer and dominating while the poor get poorer.
Henk.
You dont make any points that most fans wouldnt agree with.
I would even go so far as to have regional leagues outside SPL.
Ross County v Queen of the South
Stranraer v Elgin
These sort of games are financial suicide
money is the driving factor these days, not the sport, and the result is the rich getting richer and dominating while the poor get poorer
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
And as the importance of finance has increased over the years, so too the number of fans attending matches has declined.
Is there a link? Yes, most likely.
If the chairmen of Scottish clubs would be prepared to listen to their own fans - and act in the interests of the game in general - perhaps we could reclaim the game and get a right good league structure and competition going again here in Scotland.
I would love to see more clubs in the top league and more fans in the stadiums. I think we should ban live TV broadcasts of games in Scotland (good highlights programmes are enough).
Let's get back to 3 o'clock kick offs on a Saturday.
Who runs the Scottish game?
celtic and rangers have been trying to run the Scottish game for years with the undemocratic voting system we have in place just now, hopefully it will change soon.
at the end of the day these new rules are for everyone
Its Rangers today (perhaps) its Utd or Killie or whoever tomorrow
Most fans would seem to want the same thing, and that is to see rangers start at the bottom if they get liquidated, and there is plenty of good reasons for this.
1,Plenty of extra attention and interest in the lower
divisions for a few years, attendances go up players raise their game and their profiles, basically everyone in divisions 1-3 is a winner.
2, The teams in the top division get a chance to override the 11-1 voting system, then get any tv revenue more evenly distributed and increase the size of the league/leagues, personally i'd have 2 top leagues of 16 or 18 then regional leagues below that, with play offs between the regions top teams of each region and the relegated teams dropping back into their region.
3, There should be an extra european slot for teams in the top division to play for, and more chance for every team to do better in cups with rangers being weaker for a few seasons at least.
4, We get the chance to stand up to the tv companies and tell them that our football is more important to us than it is to them, its true what pressley says that if our game gets much worse there is nothing for them to say sorry your product is not good enough any more goodbye.
But i do think that the fans will be ignored again on this one as usual and if rangers get liquidated and then sit either 1st or 2nd in the top division at the end of next season then that will indeed be last nail in the scottish football coffin. If the chairmen of the other spl teams vote against most of the fans this time, it could be a very costly mistake.
I think the next few months could make or break scottish football. i will go to games as normal next season but i've read a lot of fans saying they might just call it a day if rangers get parachuted straight back into the SPL next season, and noboby could really argue against them. Hope things work out the best for fans of every club...................................but i have my doubts
P.S. Welcome to ja606 thespecialone
The Golden Rule always applies.
He who has the gold, well you know the rest.
Sky have got the gold, and with no other alternative to ante up a stack of cash, what they want will happen. They want 4 OF games a season, so that is exactly what there will be.
No amount of moaning, resignations etc will matter.
Not saying it is right, just saying what it is.
If Rangers come out of administration with a CVA all well and good.
However, if they form a Newco and the SPL let them straight back in (whether they apply sanctions or not) I'm not going back to the football.
The way Neil Doncaster spoke last night it looks like the other SPL clubs have decided that this is what will happen.
Absolutely shocking! No integrity.
cyber - whilst I can agree to some of your points, Doncaster did state what the rules are as of today.
There are no penalties in place for any NewCo. Obviously a team with the "draw" of Rangers or Celtic is more likely to be admitted instead of similar situation to say Caley or Dunfermline.
Is that fair? No.
Is it basic economics? Absolutely.
DC1
You are absolutely right - and that is what is bugging me.
Hopefully Rangers will get out of admin with a CVA, and the whole newco thing will be forgotten. That's the best result all round surely?
If it does come to a newco situation - I don't think it is appropriate to see sanctions applied (other than they work there way up through the leagues). After all - the dubious practices that occurred at Rangers were down to the previous regime(s) there.
What is being suggested that is that a newco gets straight back into the SPL and that the newco get hamstrung by sanctions in order to appease the other SPL clubs for letting them back in.
On both counts, this is just wrong. If the newco are to be allowed into the SPL, then they should be allowed to compete on a level playing field.
But they should not be allowed in just to help the other clubs benefit finacially from a TV deal. That seems so wrong in the context of a 'sporting' competition.
However, if they form a Newco and the SPL let them straight back in (whether they apply sanctions or not) I'm not going back to the football.
===
mmmm
strange and I can only conclude you possibly dont go now.
What fan (proper fan) gives up watching HIS club due something happening at another.
oh its the whole integrity thing
You support your own team.... or perhaps you dont???
For what its worth liquidation for me means the 3rd division but all these pretend fans not going back
What fan (proper fan) gives up watching HIS club due something happening at another.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
That is where you are wrong. It doesn't matter a jot what is happening at the other club.
What I'm objecting to is the willingness of MY club (and to a lesser extent the other clubs in the SPL) to simply roll over and let the sporting integrity of our league die for the sake of a few extra £s
so your going to stop going to watch them
I cant make my mind up if thats sad or funny
You club (any club) will make thousands of decisions every year and you know what? they do it in the best interests of the club.
But ok mate you head off to B&Q with the wife each Saturday if your team are so unimportant to you
Sign in if you want to comment
Who runs the Scottish Game
Page 1 of 2
posted on 30/4/12
Bit naive to think finance won't play a part, rightly or wrongly.
Welcome to ja606 btw.
posted on 30/4/12
Maybe the smaller clubs should all tender their resignation from the SPL (and mean it this time) and leave the old firm to play each other 36 times a season
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
If Rangers get favourable treatment the clubs will have voted for it as it will suit their particular club, so why would they tender resignations?
If we come back as a new co I would be happy to go to division three and build again, however many chairman will not want to lose the money generated by Rangers fans or take a TV deal that will be greatly reduced.
posted on 30/4/12
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 30/4/12
Thanks for the welcome atheist.
I realise finance will play a part but if the banks are dictating the way the Scottish game goes then we really are in trouble. The fans, the source of wealth really due to their tv subscriptions, purchase of clubs goods etc, have then just become an irrellevence
If the fans decide to walk away then the future of the game is even bleaker.
posted on 30/4/12
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 30/4/12
Man with the stick
I accept that if Rangers get favourable treatment the it is most likely that the clubs will have voted for it but my point is that if the original comments are true and the banks decide to force the issue then the clubs that vote for it are nor listening to what the majority of the fans 'APPEAR' to be saying but are being forced into a voting pattern that most of the fans of smaller clubs do not want
posted on 30/4/12
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 30/4/12
Money talks I'm afraid mate
I'm a bear and to be quite honest, if we do liquidate, I want us to be turfed out of the SPL and to start again in division three after reapplying along with the rest.
For me, thats the fairest way of doing things.
If it was down to the fans, this is what would happen.
Unfortunately its not, and you have to look at the chairmen of ALL the SPL clubs and blame them along with the governing bodies if this does not happen.
You are a United fan....your chairmen charged Rangers fans full price for a game of football that was abandoned at half time, then another £12 for the rescheduled game while letting United season ticket holders in for free.
Its a typical example of the kind of thinking some SPL chairmen have
posted on 30/4/12
comment by ohspecialone (U14161) posted 2 minutes ago
Man with the stick
I accept that if Rangers get favourable treatment the it is most likely that the clubs will have voted for it but my point is that if the original comments are true and the banks decide to force the issue then the clubs that vote for it are nor listening to what the majority of the fans 'APPEAR' to be saying but are being forced into a voting pattern that most of the fans of smaller clubs do not want
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
If banks can call the shots then clubs have been running in a way that they have bvecome too reliant on them.
You will find many Rangers fans on here like St3vie who would rather go through the proper channels if we come back as a new co unfortunately that may not be in the best interests of other SPL clubs.
posted on 30/4/12
St3Vie
I agree that recharging for an abandoned game was really bad.
The decisions made by all chairmen appear to have helped to have helped to drag the Scottish game down a few notched. I have had the good fortune to watch the Scottish teams play in European games (from abroad while on business or holiday). The commentators in these countries spend their time belittling the standard of our game and that includes the old firm.
I remember when the SPL was created they said that it was going to be good for the standard of Scottish football. That has not happened.
I remember when Fegus McCann and David Murray were arguing for big changes in the split of the financial cake to be changed to favour the old firm. They intimated that it would make them and thus Scottish football a better place to be.
I remember when they voted to split the league ofter 3 games they said it would provide more competetive games and better football to watch. Don't think so.
I could probably go on. At every turn the Scottish fans voiced doubts about the move but decisions were made.
We have an opportunity to clean up our game here and make changes for the better. However after the next vote I expect to see a photo of 11 chairmen standing in a row outside hampden witht their heads buried in teh ground
posted on 30/4/12
Scottish Football cannot survive anyway.
The product has been in decline for years, yet the pricing has maintained and sometimes even increased. It wouldn't happen with any other form of entertainment, but with football it does and it is no wonder fans are walking away.
Chairman would rather charge £30 to 3,000 people, than £11 to 8,000 people. There in lies the problem, a product cannot continually decline and the pricing remain the same. The fans are ignored in this Self Preservation League.
If it were up to me, I would completely overhaul the Scottish game.
*A 16 team SPL with play-offs. (13th SPL1 vs 2nd, 3rd, 4th SPL2)
*Equal share of Television Revenue.
*Ground-sharing to save costs, it's ridiculous that we have 42 teams and I think all have different grounds.
*14 team SPL2
*12 team SPL 3.
*Regional Non-League.
*Children go free with every adult for certain games in a particular category (e.g St Mirren, Dunfermline etc)
posted on 30/4/12
Henrik
Agree with you all of the way. The future of the game is the kids and we do our best to drive them away. I would say that kids go free in all games although maybe restric this to the 500 in old firm games. The change however must extend to tv. The coverage of the SPL on terrestial tv in minimal. 30 minutes at a time of night when kids are in bed while the EPL has a highlighs package for 90 minutes on Saturday night repeated on a Sunday morning. We need to make the game much more visible and accessable to the young fans otherwise we are dead in the water
posted on 30/4/12
Thats exactly it mate.
Just about evey single football fan I know thinks it would be a good idea to make the top division in Scotland a bigger league with more teams in it.
The SPL bigwigs and club chairmen were seriously talking about REDUCING the size of the league to 10 teams!!
The input from the fans clearly means $hit to these people, whats better financially for the short term is pretty much all they appear to be interested in.
What we need are people like Phil Gartside, the Bolton chairman.
He has always been for the old firm joining the premier league despite the fact his own club Bolton could suffer as a result.
The football has to come first again for things to improve....but its the same story pretty much all around Europe these days.....money is the driving factor these days, not the sport, and the result is the rich getting richer and dominating while the poor get poorer.
posted on 30/4/12
Henk.
You dont make any points that most fans wouldnt agree with.
I would even go so far as to have regional leagues outside SPL.
Ross County v Queen of the South
Stranraer v Elgin
These sort of games are financial suicide
posted on 30/4/12
money is the driving factor these days, not the sport, and the result is the rich getting richer and dominating while the poor get poorer
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
And as the importance of finance has increased over the years, so too the number of fans attending matches has declined.
Is there a link? Yes, most likely.
If the chairmen of Scottish clubs would be prepared to listen to their own fans - and act in the interests of the game in general - perhaps we could reclaim the game and get a right good league structure and competition going again here in Scotland.
I would love to see more clubs in the top league and more fans in the stadiums. I think we should ban live TV broadcasts of games in Scotland (good highlights programmes are enough).
Let's get back to 3 o'clock kick offs on a Saturday.
posted on 30/4/12
Who runs the Scottish game?
celtic and rangers have been trying to run the Scottish game for years with the undemocratic voting system we have in place just now, hopefully it will change soon.
posted on 30/4/12
at the end of the day these new rules are for everyone
Its Rangers today (perhaps) its Utd or Killie or whoever tomorrow
posted on 30/4/12
Most fans would seem to want the same thing, and that is to see rangers start at the bottom if they get liquidated, and there is plenty of good reasons for this.
1,Plenty of extra attention and interest in the lower
divisions for a few years, attendances go up players raise their game and their profiles, basically everyone in divisions 1-3 is a winner.
2, The teams in the top division get a chance to override the 11-1 voting system, then get any tv revenue more evenly distributed and increase the size of the league/leagues, personally i'd have 2 top leagues of 16 or 18 then regional leagues below that, with play offs between the regions top teams of each region and the relegated teams dropping back into their region.
3, There should be an extra european slot for teams in the top division to play for, and more chance for every team to do better in cups with rangers being weaker for a few seasons at least.
4, We get the chance to stand up to the tv companies and tell them that our football is more important to us than it is to them, its true what pressley says that if our game gets much worse there is nothing for them to say sorry your product is not good enough any more goodbye.
But i do think that the fans will be ignored again on this one as usual and if rangers get liquidated and then sit either 1st or 2nd in the top division at the end of next season then that will indeed be last nail in the scottish football coffin. If the chairmen of the other spl teams vote against most of the fans this time, it could be a very costly mistake.
I think the next few months could make or break scottish football. i will go to games as normal next season but i've read a lot of fans saying they might just call it a day if rangers get parachuted straight back into the SPL next season, and noboby could really argue against them. Hope things work out the best for fans of every club...................................but i have my doubts
P.S. Welcome to ja606 thespecialone
posted on 30/4/12
The Golden Rule always applies.
He who has the gold, well you know the rest.
Sky have got the gold, and with no other alternative to ante up a stack of cash, what they want will happen. They want 4 OF games a season, so that is exactly what there will be.
No amount of moaning, resignations etc will matter.
Not saying it is right, just saying what it is.
posted on 1/5/12
If Rangers come out of administration with a CVA all well and good.
However, if they form a Newco and the SPL let them straight back in (whether they apply sanctions or not) I'm not going back to the football.
The way Neil Doncaster spoke last night it looks like the other SPL clubs have decided that this is what will happen.
Absolutely shocking! No integrity.
posted on 1/5/12
cyber - whilst I can agree to some of your points, Doncaster did state what the rules are as of today.
There are no penalties in place for any NewCo. Obviously a team with the "draw" of Rangers or Celtic is more likely to be admitted instead of similar situation to say Caley or Dunfermline.
Is that fair? No.
Is it basic economics? Absolutely.
posted on 1/5/12
DC1
You are absolutely right - and that is what is bugging me.
Hopefully Rangers will get out of admin with a CVA, and the whole newco thing will be forgotten. That's the best result all round surely?
If it does come to a newco situation - I don't think it is appropriate to see sanctions applied (other than they work there way up through the leagues). After all - the dubious practices that occurred at Rangers were down to the previous regime(s) there.
What is being suggested that is that a newco gets straight back into the SPL and that the newco get hamstrung by sanctions in order to appease the other SPL clubs for letting them back in.
On both counts, this is just wrong. If the newco are to be allowed into the SPL, then they should be allowed to compete on a level playing field.
But they should not be allowed in just to help the other clubs benefit finacially from a TV deal. That seems so wrong in the context of a 'sporting' competition.
posted on 1/5/12
However, if they form a Newco and the SPL let them straight back in (whether they apply sanctions or not) I'm not going back to the football.
===
mmmm
strange and I can only conclude you possibly dont go now.
What fan (proper fan) gives up watching HIS club due something happening at another.
oh its the whole integrity thing
You support your own team.... or perhaps you dont???
For what its worth liquidation for me means the 3rd division but all these pretend fans not going back
posted on 1/5/12
What fan (proper fan) gives up watching HIS club due something happening at another.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
That is where you are wrong. It doesn't matter a jot what is happening at the other club.
What I'm objecting to is the willingness of MY club (and to a lesser extent the other clubs in the SPL) to simply roll over and let the sporting integrity of our league die for the sake of a few extra £s
posted on 1/5/12
so your going to stop going to watch them
I cant make my mind up if thats sad or funny
You club (any club) will make thousands of decisions every year and you know what? they do it in the best interests of the club.
But ok mate you head off to B&Q with the wife each Saturday if your team are so unimportant to you
Page 1 of 2