Our players simply don't have the technical abliity of foreigners and our league isnt one that revolves around ball retention so it doesnt matter who the manager chooses, England will never dominate possession.
INstead, we should play to our strengths. It may not be pretty but the way Chelsea played agaimnst Barca would be our strengths
We have big, strong defenders, hard working midfielders and quick forwards/wingers. efend deep, allow our opposnents the ball and then hiot them on the break. Forget trying to dominate football games
Evolve yet you have the likes of Rooney and Cole in the tem
PS. Why can I not post this on 2 boards like everyone else can?
-----
Because you have neither evolved nor achieved.
Our players simply don't have the technical abliity of foreigners and our league isnt one that revolves around ball retention so it doesnt matter who the manager chooses, England will never dominate possession.
=================================
Exactly!
Football is about winning and losing and England need to figure out how to win with what they've got.
How do England evolve to compete and move beyond the likes of Germany's or Spain's current and developing style of football when the FA pick an old fashioned safe manager stuck in the past?
You couldn't find a less modern manager ready to innovate and take a team into the next decade than Hodgson.
He really is the broad sheet version of Mike 4-4-2 Bassett, but less up and at them, and more sit back, play safe and fingers cross we somehow grab a goal at the other end.
comment by honestlivpool_five_times (U1661)
posted 2 minutes ago
Evolve yet you have the likes of Rooney and Cole in the tem
-------
They are the only 2 world class outfield players we have
Exactly!
Football is about winning and losing and England need to figure out how to win with what they've got.
-------------
We have got the ability to play good football though, like I said in my first paragraph people seem to be scared of changing. We have been playing this way for ages and it hasn't got us anywhere.
"Football is about winning and losing and England need to figure out how to win with what they've got. "
So what you're saying is, forget about the players we have who are tecnically competent and assured in possesion, because we dont play that way.
Sorry, this mentality is never going to get us anywhere. The OP is right, England have to evolve - and if we have to write off a couple of tournaments to do so then so be it.
Saying that, I am fully aware that due to the pressure of the job it will be virtually impossible for any England manager to do this.
Tbh, believe it or not, I feel we are probably one the best equipped teams to beat Spain
Im not basing this on our recent friendly win over them but on the fact that our players are mroe than capable of defending on the edge of the 18 ayrd box all game as that is how the game is played in the Prem, box to box.
Hodgson's defnesive tactics wil suit our strengthss. Like I said, it wont be pretty but it will be ebtter than Capello's high pressing game
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Hippo
---
This isn't a political debate.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Football is about winning.
----------------------
We can't win. We don't have the players to. We do at least have the players to play exciting football though, so let's do that
Im not basing this on our recent friendly win over them but on the fact that our players are mroe than capable of defending on the edge of the 18 ayrd box all game as that is how the game is played in the Prem, box to box.
------
That is one of the problems right there. International football is nothing like the Premier League, people don't seem to understand that.
I agree. In terms of viewing, England are the most boring team to watch without a doubt. There just seems to be no connection between the players.
I can, however, understand the selection of players like Parker when we play against Spain etc. Because lets face it, we are no where near them in terms of passing ability. So that tactic makes sense in that sort of game.
But as an England fan, what's most frustrating is that even when we play team like Norway, Sweden etc.... we still use the defensive hoof ball tactics. It's in these games where the OP's line up should be used. There is no reason to play Parker or Carroll in these games. None whatsoever.
When's the last time you saw England dominate a team for the duration of the match. None spring to mind for me.
The OP is correct. We are never going to become a good team who dominate possession and win trophies when we never attempt to change our style.Somewhere down the line, a manger is going to have to be brave and make this change.
We have a very similar squad to the last world cup. And i expect a very similar result.
These players can play like that but it will have to stem from the philosophy of the manager. We've seen how Rodgers has achieved this at Swansea with a team full of English and Welsh players. Whether Hodgson can with this lot is another matter. Doesn't look like it to me from tonight's showing.
Hart
Richards Cahill Lescott Cole/Baines
Carrick Lampard
Ox/DS23 Rooney Young
Welbeck
Would of been good for this Euro's. And Cleverley and Wilshire for Carrick and Lampard at 2014.
We have got the ability to play good football though
"So what you're saying is, forget about the players we have who are tecnically competent and assured in possesion, because we dont play that way"
=================================
No we don't! That's why we keep putting pressure on players.
And we don't have so called technically gifted players. The ones we have are not as good as people say. They're overrated.
That is one of the problems right there. International football is nothing like the Premier League, people don't seem to understand that.
_________________________
I know but it doesnt mean we can't play to our strengths. Our teams have done tremendously well in the CL over the last decade (think 7 out of last 8 finals have featured an english team) so its not like the transition from Prem football to european/intermatinal football is impossible.
For the most part, our teams ahve played counter attacking fotball in europe. Chelsea, Liverpool even United and Tottenham pretty much played defensive football which relied on pace and quick insisive ounter rattacks.
Why cant our national team do the same. Okay we dont have Ronaldo, or a Drogba, or a Fabregas to counger up some magic but the tactics can still be employed
Hart
Richards Cahill Lescott Cole/Baines
Carrick Lampard
Ox/DS23 Rooney Young
Welbeck
==========================
Earlier today it was Barry, what happened to him? Lampard would probably be replaced ones he comes back to do his England special.
Earlier today it was Barry, what happened to him?
----
He got injured...
comment by honestlivpool_five_times (U1661) Hart
Richards Cahill Lescott Cole/Baines
Carrick Lampard
Ox/DS23 Rooney Young
Welbeck
========================== Earlier today it was Barry, what
happened to him? Lampard would
probably be replaced ones he comes
back to do his England special.
....
It's a tough choice between Barry and Lampard. I cannot decide.
Chelsea, Liverpool even United and Tottenham pretty much played defensive football which relied on pace and quick insisive ounter rattacks.
================================
Liverpool and Chelsea have never relied on pace for years. Under Benitez Liverpool played possession football and and Chelsea have always relied on power.
It's a tough choice between Barry and Lampard. I cannot decide.
===================================
They're both rubbish for England. Fans use them as excuse when England aren't doing well, while in fact they make little difference...
Liverpool and Chelsea have never relied on pace for years. Under Benitez Liverpool played possession football and and Chelsea have always relied on power.
______________________________
Im talking about their tactics playing in the CL. Over the last few years, Chelsea have always played 451 with 2 or 3 defensive minded CMs and then pace on the wings with Drogba up top
Same went for Liverpool. Torres up top on his own, pretty much everyone else back defending with Gerrard supporting.
The only english team that played possession football in the CL is Arsenal, and even they werent very good at it. Most of their games finished 50-50 possession unlike Barca who finish theirs 70+ or Madrid who usually finish 60 at least nowadays
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England have to evolve to achieve.
Page 1 of 2
posted on 27/5/12
Our players simply don't have the technical abliity of foreigners and our league isnt one that revolves around ball retention so it doesnt matter who the manager chooses, England will never dominate possession.
INstead, we should play to our strengths. It may not be pretty but the way Chelsea played agaimnst Barca would be our strengths
We have big, strong defenders, hard working midfielders and quick forwards/wingers. efend deep, allow our opposnents the ball and then hiot them on the break. Forget trying to dominate football games
posted on 27/5/12
Evolve yet you have the likes of Rooney and Cole in the tem
posted on 27/5/12
PS. Why can I not post this on 2 boards like everyone else can?
-----
Because you have neither evolved nor achieved.
posted on 27/5/12
Our players simply don't have the technical abliity of foreigners and our league isnt one that revolves around ball retention so it doesnt matter who the manager chooses, England will never dominate possession.
=================================
Exactly!
Football is about winning and losing and England need to figure out how to win with what they've got.
posted on 27/5/12
How do England evolve to compete and move beyond the likes of Germany's or Spain's current and developing style of football when the FA pick an old fashioned safe manager stuck in the past?
You couldn't find a less modern manager ready to innovate and take a team into the next decade than Hodgson.
He really is the broad sheet version of Mike 4-4-2 Bassett, but less up and at them, and more sit back, play safe and fingers cross we somehow grab a goal at the other end.
posted on 27/5/12
comment by honestlivpool_five_times (U1661)
posted 2 minutes ago
Evolve yet you have the likes of Rooney and Cole in the tem
-------
They are the only 2 world class outfield players we have
Exactly!
Football is about winning and losing and England need to figure out how to win with what they've got.
-------------
We have got the ability to play good football though, like I said in my first paragraph people seem to be scared of changing. We have been playing this way for ages and it hasn't got us anywhere.
posted on 27/5/12
"Football is about winning and losing and England need to figure out how to win with what they've got. "
So what you're saying is, forget about the players we have who are tecnically competent and assured in possesion, because we dont play that way.
Sorry, this mentality is never going to get us anywhere. The OP is right, England have to evolve - and if we have to write off a couple of tournaments to do so then so be it.
Saying that, I am fully aware that due to the pressure of the job it will be virtually impossible for any England manager to do this.
posted on 27/5/12
Tbh, believe it or not, I feel we are probably one the best equipped teams to beat Spain
Im not basing this on our recent friendly win over them but on the fact that our players are mroe than capable of defending on the edge of the 18 ayrd box all game as that is how the game is played in the Prem, box to box.
Hodgson's defnesive tactics wil suit our strengthss. Like I said, it wont be pretty but it will be ebtter than Capello's high pressing game
posted on 27/5/12
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 27/5/12
Leave it out Hippo.
posted on 27/5/12
Hippo
---
This isn't a political debate.
posted on 27/5/12
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 27/5/12
Football is about winning.
----------------------
We can't win. We don't have the players to. We do at least have the players to play exciting football though, so let's do that
posted on 27/5/12
Im not basing this on our recent friendly win over them but on the fact that our players are mroe than capable of defending on the edge of the 18 ayrd box all game as that is how the game is played in the Prem, box to box.
------
That is one of the problems right there. International football is nothing like the Premier League, people don't seem to understand that.
posted on 27/5/12
I agree. In terms of viewing, England are the most boring team to watch without a doubt. There just seems to be no connection between the players.
I can, however, understand the selection of players like Parker when we play against Spain etc. Because lets face it, we are no where near them in terms of passing ability. So that tactic makes sense in that sort of game.
But as an England fan, what's most frustrating is that even when we play team like Norway, Sweden etc.... we still use the defensive hoof ball tactics. It's in these games where the OP's line up should be used. There is no reason to play Parker or Carroll in these games. None whatsoever.
When's the last time you saw England dominate a team for the duration of the match. None spring to mind for me.
The OP is correct. We are never going to become a good team who dominate possession and win trophies when we never attempt to change our style.Somewhere down the line, a manger is going to have to be brave and make this change.
We have a very similar squad to the last world cup. And i expect a very similar result.
posted on 27/5/12
These players can play like that but it will have to stem from the philosophy of the manager. We've seen how Rodgers has achieved this at Swansea with a team full of English and Welsh players. Whether Hodgson can with this lot is another matter. Doesn't look like it to me from tonight's showing.
posted on 27/5/12
Hart
Richards Cahill Lescott Cole/Baines
Carrick Lampard
Ox/DS23 Rooney Young
Welbeck
Would of been good for this Euro's. And Cleverley and Wilshire for Carrick and Lampard at 2014.
posted on 27/5/12
We have got the ability to play good football though
"So what you're saying is, forget about the players we have who are tecnically competent and assured in possesion, because we dont play that way"
=================================
No we don't! That's why we keep putting pressure on players.
And we don't have so called technically gifted players. The ones we have are not as good as people say. They're overrated.
posted on 27/5/12
That is one of the problems right there. International football is nothing like the Premier League, people don't seem to understand that.
_________________________
I know but it doesnt mean we can't play to our strengths. Our teams have done tremendously well in the CL over the last decade (think 7 out of last 8 finals have featured an english team) so its not like the transition from Prem football to european/intermatinal football is impossible.
For the most part, our teams ahve played counter attacking fotball in europe. Chelsea, Liverpool even United and Tottenham pretty much played defensive football which relied on pace and quick insisive ounter rattacks.
Why cant our national team do the same. Okay we dont have Ronaldo, or a Drogba, or a Fabregas to counger up some magic but the tactics can still be employed
posted on 27/5/12
Hart
Richards Cahill Lescott Cole/Baines
Carrick Lampard
Ox/DS23 Rooney Young
Welbeck
==========================
Earlier today it was Barry, what happened to him? Lampard would probably be replaced ones he comes back to do his England special.
posted on 27/5/12
Earlier today it was Barry, what happened to him?
----
He got injured...
posted on 27/5/12
comment by honestlivpool_five_times (U1661) Hart
Richards Cahill Lescott Cole/Baines
Carrick Lampard
Ox/DS23 Rooney Young
Welbeck
========================== Earlier today it was Barry, what
happened to him? Lampard would
probably be replaced ones he comes
back to do his England special.
....
It's a tough choice between Barry and Lampard. I cannot decide.
posted on 27/5/12
Chelsea, Liverpool even United and Tottenham pretty much played defensive football which relied on pace and quick insisive ounter rattacks.
================================
Liverpool and Chelsea have never relied on pace for years. Under Benitez Liverpool played possession football and and Chelsea have always relied on power.
posted on 27/5/12
It's a tough choice between Barry and Lampard. I cannot decide.
===================================
They're both rubbish for England. Fans use them as excuse when England aren't doing well, while in fact they make little difference...
posted on 27/5/12
Liverpool and Chelsea have never relied on pace for years. Under Benitez Liverpool played possession football and and Chelsea have always relied on power.
______________________________
Im talking about their tactics playing in the CL. Over the last few years, Chelsea have always played 451 with 2 or 3 defensive minded CMs and then pace on the wings with Drogba up top
Same went for Liverpool. Torres up top on his own, pretty much everyone else back defending with Gerrard supporting.
The only english team that played possession football in the CL is Arsenal, and even they werent very good at it. Most of their games finished 50-50 possession unlike Barca who finish theirs 70+ or Madrid who usually finish 60 at least nowadays
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