Well said Pogued!!
Nothing wrong with a bit of straw clutching. I'd have given up following Ireland years ago if i didn't have a straw to clutch!!!
Englands performances to me raise serious questions about the "British" style of Football that unfortunately we are saddled with as well seeing as all the majority of our team ply their trade over in England.
Giving the ball away far too much, being outclassed in terms of skill and technique, depending on set pieces (corners, free kicks etc.) for goals.
Seems like England have a lot in common with us afterall !!!
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Ireland need more English players to play the England way
Need to blood the youngsters but simply will never happen under this dinosaur manager who has no interest in young players or club form so we have a dire WC campaign with the same players and dour tactics Trap's gotta go fior the sake of irish football.to look forward too under Trap.
Number of the Sunday papers suggest that Gibson, McClean, Long, Hunt are all fed up of Trap and some are considering retirement!!
Number of the Sunday papers suggest that Gibson, McClean, Long, Hunt are all fed up of Trap and some are considering retirement!!
----------------------------------------
i heard this yesterday - can't believe its true. Sounds like the media are creating stuff so the fans will want Trap out to me.
The media kicking up a frenzy as they did with Andy Reid a few years ago (where is he now again?), shouldn't read too much into it, wait til the August friendly against Serbia to see who gets selected before speculating.
Delaney will be having a meeting with Trap in a few weeks to discuss the mistakes he made in the tournament and how to take the team forward.
I think Trap will be under a huge amount of pressure from the FAI men to adapt his formation and blood the younger players.
Think about it, the FAI are hardly flush at the moment and badly need more gate receipt money and playing the likes of Green and McShane obviously isn't going to help that, so I'm sure Trap will be forced to change his ways if only slightly...
It certainly won't be a miracle transformation to Spanish tika taka football, but players like McCarthy, Gibson, McClean, Wilson, Clark, Long will inevitably all play a bigger part.
Also sacking Trap is out of the question I'm afraid lads, simply because it would cost the FAI 3million euro to do so.
Think the tide has turned on Trap, its almost inevitable coz the FAI are so lame that they'll do nothing when the WC qualifiers start with exactly the same squad / players and stagnant system that the crowd will turn on Trap. Attendances will also suffer and with a big shiny new stadium to pay for and of course Delaneys annual bar bill, that poor attendances will get him sacked before anything else!!
With regards to Ireland's group, easily the hardest in the tournament as Italy (the weakest team next to Ireland) proved last night.
England should be grateful they didn't come up against Croatia or Spain cos they would have got mauled.
This should also put into perspective some of the whinging about our style of play, it's easy to talk about playing attractive football, but actually putting it into practice is a lot more challenging...
Look at the England midfield, all play for top 5 clubs all with Champs Lge experience, yet under pressure against genuine top quality opposition last night their passing was dreadful!
Sure, they looked decent going forward against Sweden and the mighty Ukraine, but top quality sides like Spain, Italy and Croatia do not give you extra time on the ball.
So if you're going to play a passing game you better be sure that all your players 1-11 have perfect touch and inch perfect passing cos players who learn the game in England from a young age (including our own) simply don't.
With regards to Ireland's group, easily the hardest in the tournament as Italy (the weakest team next to Ireland) proved last night.
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I dont agree with this - the Germany Group was much tougher.
poor attendances will get him sacked before anything else!!
...............................................................................
3million euro to sack Trap though... can the FAI really afford to throw away 3million euro like that? I don't think so.
More likely the FAI will strictly demand that he selects the younger players for all friendlies and competitive games in order to maintain revenue from attendances which the FAI so desperately need right now.
FAI will be extremely pished at Trap already that we didn't beat Italy and finish 3rd in the group, that would have meant an extra 2million euro in prize money.
The German group was the toughest followed by ours, seesm CBB is so in love with Trap that he'll literally pull up any angle possible to defend him! Why or how anyone could defend Trap and his so called style of football / mgmt is beyond me?
I dont agree with this - the Germany Group was much tougher
.......................................................................................
Germany very good but not as good as Spain.
Croatia and Italy would sht all over Holland and Portugal i'm afraid.
You can't rely on one play to get you out of jail in every game I'm afraid, Portugal will find that out against Spain.
Germany very good but not as good as Spain.
Croatia and Italy would sht all over Holland and Portugal i'm afraid.
You can't rely on one play to get you out of jail in every game I'm afraid, Portugal will find that out against Spain.
-------------------------------------------------
Two of the favourites for the Tournement, One being World cup runners, the best player in the competition in the third team and a team who have previous for causing upsets and winning the competition.
Italy rely on pirlo as much as Portugal do with Ronaldo.
It wasn't called the group of death for nothing.
CBB is so in love with Trap that he'll literally pull up any angle possible to defend him! Why or how anyone could defend Trap and his so called style of football / mgmt is beyond me?
...............................................................................
I'm not defending him you moron I just explained that it's impossible for us to sack him cos it would cost 3 million euro.
We're not like the English FA with all their premier league money, we can't afford to just psss away millions like that Especially when there is no ready proven replacement available.
Trap will get a good grilling from the FAI and will be forced to change up his squad for the qualifiers, it's as simple as that.
Delaney will be having a meeting with Trap in a few weeks to discuss the mistakes he made in the tournament and how to take the team forward.
______________________________________
Yeah coz Delaney and the FAI have such a long standing history of being assertive and forthright
Bit like the time Delaney appointed his golf buddy Stan to be the Ireland manager????
In fact the one piece of credit I would give Trap is that i think he's humble and wise enough that if asked to step aside by the FAI he'd do it without requesting compo! He's made his money and it doesnt motivate him, thing is the FAI are about as likely to ask him to step down as John Delaney is to take a drop on his €400k annual salary that he earns whilst irish football and the League of Ireland lies in ruins around him!! Ah well, get the drinks in Johnj...
Two of the favourites for the Tournement, One being World cup runners, the best player in the competition in the third team and a team who have previous for causing upsets and winning the competition.
.........................................................................
Sure you could make a similar case for Ireland's group too, except that Spain were WC and EC winners.
Hats off to Denmark, but before the competition they had longer odds than Ireland and on paper they are an average side.
Holland had a suspect defence, even before the tournament anyone could see that they were lacking quality there and over reliant on the front 3, unbalanced team.
Italy have class all over the pitch, pedestrian at times yes, but a defensively solid and technical team, bear in mind they are the 3rd best team in the group also.
Croatia were a superior team to both Holland and Portugal and deserved to qualify ahead of Italy.
I think Denmark had Longer odds because they where in the harder group TBH.
I dont see how Italy are third best team in the group as they where world Champions only 6 years ago and where unlucky not to beat Spain (who have bored me to tears btw).
The Croatian team are good but by no means above the teams in the German group.
I still feel that Irelands group was weaker than Germany's - It was the one nobody wanted
Who do you want in charge Len and why?
And given England's performance last night and the fact that they have much better players than us can we ever expect to retain the ball against better teams?
I still feel that Irelands group was weaker than Germany's - It was the one nobody wanted
-------------------------------------------------------
Well this is all subjective and you two could argue the point all day without agreeing but given the semi-final line-up, what everyone can agree on I'm sure is that they were definitely the two toughest groups.
It would depend on whose available?
I'd want certain criteria met by any potential mgr such as must attend regularly games in person, have a history of developing and playing youth players and someone who is up to speed and on under irish sets ups. Trap has never even atttended an Irish U 21 game?? That for me is shocking and proves that he clearly has no interest in young players!! So any talk of a rebuilding job under Trap is farcical
Well this is all subjective and you two could argue the point all day without agreeing but given the semi-final line-up, what everyone can agree on I'm sure is that they were definitely the two toughest groups.
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Exactly, i noticed this last night - Wasnt really much point in having the other two groups, was there? haha
Someone who has history of playing 433 / 451 also should be a prereq as its the formation used by the underage irish set ups as established by the Dutch Director of football dude who recently left us. We could be very decent with a side such as
Westwood
Coleman, O'Shea, St Ledger, Wilson
McCarthy, Gibson, Hoolahan,
McGeady, Long, McClean
So any talk of a rebuilding job under Trap is farcical
----------------------------------------------------------
True, but at 70 he was hardly going to come in and inspire a revolution in Irish youth football, his remit is to qualify to major tournaments which he nearly did first time round and managed at the 2nd attempt.
Westwood
Coleman, O'Shea, St Ledger, Wilson
McCarthy, Gibson, Hoolahan,
McGeady, Long, McClean
------------------------------------------------------
I agree with you that it's time to change formation especially against better teams to try and get a foot hold in the game. On paper I agree that looks a decent side, not sure about Seamus at right back as the fact that Tony Hibbert gets picked there in front of him would concern me and of course we don't (and are unlikely to find out at club level) really know how big James would do as part of a 3 as opposed to being an out and out winger in a 4.
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Some small crumb of comfort for Ireland....
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posted on 25/6/12
Well said Pogued!!
Nothing wrong with a bit of straw clutching. I'd have given up following Ireland years ago if i didn't have a straw to clutch!!!
Englands performances to me raise serious questions about the "British" style of Football that unfortunately we are saddled with as well seeing as all the majority of our team ply their trade over in England.
Giving the ball away far too much, being outclassed in terms of skill and technique, depending on set pieces (corners, free kicks etc.) for goals.
Seems like England have a lot in common with us afterall !!!
posted on 25/6/12
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 25/6/12
Ireland need more English players to play the England way
posted on 25/6/12
Need to blood the youngsters but simply will never happen under this dinosaur manager who has no interest in young players or club form so we have a dire WC campaign with the same players and dour tactics Trap's gotta go fior the sake of irish football.to look forward too under Trap.
Number of the Sunday papers suggest that Gibson, McClean, Long, Hunt are all fed up of Trap and some are considering retirement!!
posted on 25/6/12
Number of the Sunday papers suggest that Gibson, McClean, Long, Hunt are all fed up of Trap and some are considering retirement!!
----------------------------------------
i heard this yesterday - can't believe its true. Sounds like the media are creating stuff so the fans will want Trap out to me.
posted on 25/6/12
The media kicking up a frenzy as they did with Andy Reid a few years ago (where is he now again?), shouldn't read too much into it, wait til the August friendly against Serbia to see who gets selected before speculating.
Delaney will be having a meeting with Trap in a few weeks to discuss the mistakes he made in the tournament and how to take the team forward.
I think Trap will be under a huge amount of pressure from the FAI men to adapt his formation and blood the younger players.
Think about it, the FAI are hardly flush at the moment and badly need more gate receipt money and playing the likes of Green and McShane obviously isn't going to help that, so I'm sure Trap will be forced to change his ways if only slightly...
It certainly won't be a miracle transformation to Spanish tika taka football, but players like McCarthy, Gibson, McClean, Wilson, Clark, Long will inevitably all play a bigger part.
Also sacking Trap is out of the question I'm afraid lads, simply because it would cost the FAI 3million euro to do so.
posted on 25/6/12
Think the tide has turned on Trap, its almost inevitable coz the FAI are so lame that they'll do nothing when the WC qualifiers start with exactly the same squad / players and stagnant system that the crowd will turn on Trap. Attendances will also suffer and with a big shiny new stadium to pay for and of course Delaneys annual bar bill, that poor attendances will get him sacked before anything else!!
posted on 25/6/12
With regards to Ireland's group, easily the hardest in the tournament as Italy (the weakest team next to Ireland) proved last night.
England should be grateful they didn't come up against Croatia or Spain cos they would have got mauled.
This should also put into perspective some of the whinging about our style of play, it's easy to talk about playing attractive football, but actually putting it into practice is a lot more challenging...
Look at the England midfield, all play for top 5 clubs all with Champs Lge experience, yet under pressure against genuine top quality opposition last night their passing was dreadful!
Sure, they looked decent going forward against Sweden and the mighty Ukraine, but top quality sides like Spain, Italy and Croatia do not give you extra time on the ball.
So if you're going to play a passing game you better be sure that all your players 1-11 have perfect touch and inch perfect passing cos players who learn the game in England from a young age (including our own) simply don't.
posted on 25/6/12
With regards to Ireland's group, easily the hardest in the tournament as Italy (the weakest team next to Ireland) proved last night.
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I dont agree with this - the Germany Group was much tougher.
posted on 25/6/12
poor attendances will get him sacked before anything else!!
...............................................................................
3million euro to sack Trap though... can the FAI really afford to throw away 3million euro like that? I don't think so.
More likely the FAI will strictly demand that he selects the younger players for all friendlies and competitive games in order to maintain revenue from attendances which the FAI so desperately need right now.
FAI will be extremely pished at Trap already that we didn't beat Italy and finish 3rd in the group, that would have meant an extra 2million euro in prize money.
posted on 25/6/12
The German group was the toughest followed by ours, seesm CBB is so in love with Trap that he'll literally pull up any angle possible to defend him! Why or how anyone could defend Trap and his so called style of football / mgmt is beyond me?
posted on 25/6/12
I dont agree with this - the Germany Group was much tougher
.......................................................................................
Germany very good but not as good as Spain.
Croatia and Italy would sht all over Holland and Portugal i'm afraid.
You can't rely on one play to get you out of jail in every game I'm afraid, Portugal will find that out against Spain.
posted on 25/6/12
Germany very good but not as good as Spain.
Croatia and Italy would sht all over Holland and Portugal i'm afraid.
You can't rely on one play to get you out of jail in every game I'm afraid, Portugal will find that out against Spain.
-------------------------------------------------
Two of the favourites for the Tournement, One being World cup runners, the best player in the competition in the third team and a team who have previous for causing upsets and winning the competition.
Italy rely on pirlo as much as Portugal do with Ronaldo.
It wasn't called the group of death for nothing.
posted on 25/6/12
CBB is so in love with Trap that he'll literally pull up any angle possible to defend him! Why or how anyone could defend Trap and his so called style of football / mgmt is beyond me?
...............................................................................
I'm not defending him you moron I just explained that it's impossible for us to sack him cos it would cost 3 million euro.
We're not like the English FA with all their premier league money, we can't afford to just psss away millions like that Especially when there is no ready proven replacement available.
Trap will get a good grilling from the FAI and will be forced to change up his squad for the qualifiers, it's as simple as that.
posted on 25/6/12
Delaney will be having a meeting with Trap in a few weeks to discuss the mistakes he made in the tournament and how to take the team forward.
______________________________________
Yeah coz Delaney and the FAI have such a long standing history of being assertive and forthright
Bit like the time Delaney appointed his golf buddy Stan to be the Ireland manager????
posted on 25/6/12
In fact the one piece of credit I would give Trap is that i think he's humble and wise enough that if asked to step aside by the FAI he'd do it without requesting compo! He's made his money and it doesnt motivate him, thing is the FAI are about as likely to ask him to step down as John Delaney is to take a drop on his €400k annual salary that he earns whilst irish football and the League of Ireland lies in ruins around him!! Ah well, get the drinks in Johnj...
posted on 25/6/12
Two of the favourites for the Tournement, One being World cup runners, the best player in the competition in the third team and a team who have previous for causing upsets and winning the competition.
.........................................................................
Sure you could make a similar case for Ireland's group too, except that Spain were WC and EC winners.
Hats off to Denmark, but before the competition they had longer odds than Ireland and on paper they are an average side.
Holland had a suspect defence, even before the tournament anyone could see that they were lacking quality there and over reliant on the front 3, unbalanced team.
Italy have class all over the pitch, pedestrian at times yes, but a defensively solid and technical team, bear in mind they are the 3rd best team in the group also.
Croatia were a superior team to both Holland and Portugal and deserved to qualify ahead of Italy.
posted on 25/6/12
I think Denmark had Longer odds because they where in the harder group TBH.
I dont see how Italy are third best team in the group as they where world Champions only 6 years ago and where unlucky not to beat Spain (who have bored me to tears btw).
The Croatian team are good but by no means above the teams in the German group.
I still feel that Irelands group was weaker than Germany's - It was the one nobody wanted
posted on 25/6/12
Who do you want in charge Len and why?
And given England's performance last night and the fact that they have much better players than us can we ever expect to retain the ball against better teams?
posted on 25/6/12
I still feel that Irelands group was weaker than Germany's - It was the one nobody wanted
-------------------------------------------------------
Well this is all subjective and you two could argue the point all day without agreeing but given the semi-final line-up, what everyone can agree on I'm sure is that they were definitely the two toughest groups.
posted on 25/6/12
It would depend on whose available?
I'd want certain criteria met by any potential mgr such as must attend regularly games in person, have a history of developing and playing youth players and someone who is up to speed and on under irish sets ups. Trap has never even atttended an Irish U 21 game?? That for me is shocking and proves that he clearly has no interest in young players!! So any talk of a rebuilding job under Trap is farcical
posted on 25/6/12
Well this is all subjective and you two could argue the point all day without agreeing but given the semi-final line-up, what everyone can agree on I'm sure is that they were definitely the two toughest groups.
------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly, i noticed this last night - Wasnt really much point in having the other two groups, was there? haha
posted on 25/6/12
Someone who has history of playing 433 / 451 also should be a prereq as its the formation used by the underage irish set ups as established by the Dutch Director of football dude who recently left us. We could be very decent with a side such as
Westwood
Coleman, O'Shea, St Ledger, Wilson
McCarthy, Gibson, Hoolahan,
McGeady, Long, McClean
posted on 25/6/12
So any talk of a rebuilding job under Trap is farcical
----------------------------------------------------------
True, but at 70 he was hardly going to come in and inspire a revolution in Irish youth football, his remit is to qualify to major tournaments which he nearly did first time round and managed at the 2nd attempt.
posted on 25/6/12
Westwood
Coleman, O'Shea, St Ledger, Wilson
McCarthy, Gibson, Hoolahan,
McGeady, Long, McClean
------------------------------------------------------
I agree with you that it's time to change formation especially against better teams to try and get a foot hold in the game. On paper I agree that looks a decent side, not sure about Seamus at right back as the fact that Tony Hibbert gets picked there in front of him would concern me and of course we don't (and are unlikely to find out at club level) really know how big James would do as part of a 3 as opposed to being an out and out winger in a 4.
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