I have a feeling SAF is going to move away from 4-4-2 this season.
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Yes, please.

Oh I totally agree aquantum re dropping a Scholes or Keane clone into our central midfield wouldnt suddenly see us wipe the board with trophies, so I dont think you're being pessimistic in saying that. However there are plenty of options available to SAF that would strengthen that area of the pitch, and to move us forward significantly to compete with the really elite world clubs then I'd personally suggest we are going to need two high class CMs sooner rather than later, even if only one comes this window. I guess this is why I'm asking which type would be the priority if we were going to leave the second one until for example next summer, and for this we'd need to agree what is our main need/issue.

As Scholes is still around, and we have players like Cleverley at the start of their career, even Anderson while he's still at the club, then as much as I'd like the Scholes type player now, maybe we can wait more for that than we can for a Keane/Essien/Toure/Vieira type. That's of course also assuming the ideal two would be a mixture like Scholes & Keane or Martinez and Modric or Strootman and Sahin etc etc.

If Carrick was injured, out of form or unavailable then do we have many quality alternatives? If Carrick is fit and we all agree it's a given he's one of our current best CMs to start every big game, then is he the right man going forward from now for us to challenge successfully at the really elite level of club football i.e. v Madrid, Barca, Bayern etc etc? Just a question for debates sake.

If we did use a formation like 4-2-3-1 as well then Carrick would be good imo as one of the two, and the player I suggested above as someone who could be an alternative to Carrick when we are playing a 4-4-1-1- could play alongside him in the 4-2-3-1.

Anyway this is all just for discussion's sake, with a fair chunk of playing devils advocate, as the type SAF is trying to get seems pretty clear.

comment by Red Russian (U4715)
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I can see where your coming from. We can't play 433 because we just don't have the players to play that way, most importantly, it takes away Utd's strength, playin through the wings. When teams cut of our wingers, that's when we also seem to struggle, very rarely do I see us create chances through the middle, whether that's SAF tactics or the midfielder inability to split open defences, I don't know, I'm thinking the latter.

Whenever SAF has played 451, although defensively see seem sound, offensively we are toothless. There is never a proper balance and ourstyle of play is pretty boring aswell with the 451 setup. It all points to the midfield unfortunately, which is why we are all wondering...why hadn't SAF strengthened it. I Aldo think its time to move in with the so called 'modern formation' (4231, 433 etc etc) just not 442.

I don't think we will ever win the CL playing 442 unfortunately (unless we get the Chelsea luck of last year) because majority of the teams will always play with an extra midfielder and will always outrun us.

comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 20 hours, 11 minutes ago
Obviously, physical prowess is useful. The perfect midfielder has class on the ball and athleticism. A few years ago Essien was the archetype. I don't want a magician with the ball at his feet who is also a wuss - or has no legs (e.g. Riquelme). But that's not to say that slight players without lightning pace must be at a disadvantage.
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Very harsh on Riquelme. At his peak, he was probably the best pure playmaker in the world. The Riquelme i knew was no wuss, he was rarely bossed off the ball.

Granted, he didnt do much defensive work but he was a magician who rarely, if ever lost the ball.

I concur though that a pure brute is not needed. Personally i am for a regista, one who has a bit of both. I dont think there is anything new i or anyone here has to say that hasnt been said already on the midfield problem.

Other than, 'When will SAF sort this mess out'?

RC

I was using Riquelme to exemplify 'no legs' rather than 'a wuss' and I was thinking of the slow, ageing player rather than him in his prime. I'm a big admirer of him but I think it's fair to say that for all his continuing quality on the ball, his immobility drastically reduces his effectiveness.

Perhaps RR but it is not as cut and dry. Let's not forget SAF tried to sign Riquelme.

I admit that his snail-paced style would probably be alien to the pell-mell style of the premier league but all we can do is guess

RC, when was that though? I'm not saying he hasn't been a superb player, including as recently as his Villareal stint. I'd have loved a Riquelme in his prime at United. All I'm talking about is the mid-30s Riquelme who is well past his physical peak and attracting criticism at Boca Juniors for being too slow. My post was an argument in favour of footballing talent over brawn, and I was just qualifying that by saying there is a point at which inability to compete physically renders even the most sublimely talented footballer ineffective. Riquelme was the example that sprung to mind, as one of the most gifted players of his generation and unfortunately not anywhere near as effective as he once was.

Ok, RR. I wasn't looking to spar, i actually like your posts.

We are often in tandem - most of the time. A prime Riquelme would be a welcome addition for sure.