He is a risk, given the lack of game time he had last season due to injuries. If no chance of a permanent deal then not really worth it from Arsenals PoV.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
yeah, it would have been an awful bit of business for us if we were to pay sahins wages on top of a signing on fee for him to only stay a season. its only a Madrid win win situation. and when did we become their training camp.
anfield, they know how good sahin is! they just wanted him to regain his form (dortmund days) and the physicality aspect of his game by playing in the prem. i believe they want to keep him if he hits it of in the prem or sell him at a higher price, and also if he doesnt hit it off, they will be prepared to let him go.
RAP, option to buy would mean a fee was agreed and at any time during the loan if the fee was offered Real would have to sell.
Without it, if Sahin has a great season and Real still sell, they can put any price on him.
It all depends on how well he does, if he gets them into CL for next year the single year loan is worth it and will be considered a successful one. same time, he does so well only to leave will hurt LFC and the fans.
I think Mourino wants to hang onto him, hence let him go out, get some game time, and get back into the Real squad for next season. Is indeed a win win for Real.
I understand AFC stance too, when we have the likes of Eisfield and youngsters in our own squad, why invest and take a risk on a player who will leave when you have players on your door step.
But agree, a year without Sahin might tempt Real into selling anyway come next year.
Tryna soften the blow lads, look f he plays well and bring the club success I the next 12 months then great, f not send him back.
I'm glad we ave got some players on loan, it's better than buying a player for 20 mill then him being crap and on big wages.
At the end of the day if you continue to sell your best payers and then not replace th you will end up win a big stadium and midtable, I know because it happened to us!!
Good luck for next year!
you will end up win a big stadium and midtable, I know because it happened to us!!
=========
Except the big stadium bit.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
RAP, thats the thing, for Liverpool it may be a good deal but for Arsenal I don't think it is.
We are already accused of training players up for bigger clubs, this will be a step too far!!
There is a chance of Sahin becoming a permanent signing, but if he does well then Real could play hardball and push the price up ridiculously high.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Some of the comments by Arsenal fans regarding Real are a bit silly though. He is a Real player, and if they don't to insert a purchase fee then that is their right, if they don't want to send him to Arsenal then that is their right.
Without an option, this really is a terrible deal for Liverpool.
The fact is that Arsenal want to develop the player and don't want Real to have the power to just take him back. Personally I think we should have just accepted this and cracked on with the season with Sahin being a bonus player. I guess there were reasons why this was not taken as Wenger and the board are not stupid!
Looking on the bright side, somebody else will come in, there is enough time left. Who will it be??
If he has a good season for us, he will be worth the 4 million.
no fecking way should we take any youngish player on loabn without the option to buy what sets our club apart from most is our ability to improve players, how much did we make from Nasri and Co. Now some fans want us to do it for Madrid for free (infact we would be paying for the privoledge).
Personally I think we should have just accepted this and cracked on with the season with Sahin being a bonus player.
----------------------------------
Why?
Without an option Sahin has no commitment to the club. Is he going to go into those challenges fully committed knowing an injury will finish his career at Real Madrid where he is earning £120k a week?
I am sorry but Mourinho's main complaint with Sahin is his lack of desire. Sending him away for a year ain't going to change that.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
I tell you exactly why we should have accepted it: We have Wilshire to come back but in the meantime we need somebody with skills to do a job for us. Sahin could have filled in very well. Yes it would have been nice to own him but Real didn't want this and they own the player.
It would be in the players best interest to play well, all young players want to do is play well. They are not going to think far beyond this.
Sahin and Allen add enough class to hopefully point us in the direction of the top 4 again, and if we find someone who knows how to score goals
-----------------------------------------
The problem is that you will never be able to judge the commitment of the player. Generally when players move on loan to big clubs (and unlike many of my gooner brethren, I still consider Liverpool a big club), there is an incentive for the player to earn a contract. That keeps harmony in the dressing room and cultivates team spirit. Players know they are in it together. There is none of that. Now you have a mercenary whose his team mates will always question his commitment if he misses a challenge or doesn't track back. Its worse for Sahin because that is the reason given by Mourinho for not playing him.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
I tell you exactly why we should have accepted it: We have Wilshire to come back but in the meantime we need somebody with skills to do a job for us. Sahin could have filled in very well.
-----------------------------------------
a) Wilshere has probably played as much as Sahin in the last year. Sahin is not match fit. Nor does he have experience of our system. Our system is similar to Barca/Bilbao etc not Madrid. There is very little chance he could have fitted in immediately to have the type of impact you expect that we need before Wilshere returns to fitness.
b) Consider the fact that Arsene sold Song and RVP because of their wage demands. Sahin is on £120k a week. How do you think the dressing room would have reacted after all the nonsense of the summer? Theo is still in that protracted negotiation with the club. Some of that would have been mitigated if the dressing room knew that Sahin had a long term future with the club. But without an option it was stupid!
doesn't mean we won't look to sign him at the end of the loan if he's successful.
--------------------------------
I am sorry but you have no chance of that. Thats why there is no option to buy. If Sahin performs he will be back at Madrid to replace Alonso. If he doesn't succeed why would Liverpool buy him and pay him the same as Gerrard?
I think without an option its a lose-lose situation. I am thankful we didn't touch it if there was no option.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Real don't want the clause because they want to keep their options open, not because they're 100% certain he'll be in their first team once he's had a year of Premier League football.
--------------------------------------------
Real Madrid's bankers are Bankia. They are one the main banks that have been bailed out by the EZ. They have been instructed to reduce the debt that they hold of Madrid. Thats meant getting rid of players who sitting on huge wages in the reserves. Whatsmore they cannot pay the type of wages they have done in the past to their current players. This is why all negotiations have broken down with Alonso. He will leave. Sahin is expected to replace him because he is on less money.
Bankia are looking at every deal that Madrid are doing at the moment. That means they know that we have offered a £14m buy out option. This reduces the risk on that portion of debt completely. There is no way that Real Madrid would have turned Arsenal with preference for a no buy-out clause unless Mourinho was sure that he wanted him back.
As I suggested if he does well, he will be Madrid player, or his transfer will be far greater than £14m. If he fails then who wants to pay his wages? Its a lose-lose.
Page 1 of 1
First
Previous
1
Next
Latest
Sign in if you want to comment
Times: No option to buy
Page 1 of 1
posted on 24/8/12
He is a risk, given the lack of game time he had last season due to injuries. If no chance of a permanent deal then not really worth it from Arsenals PoV.
posted on 24/8/12
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 24/8/12
yeah, it would have been an awful bit of business for us if we were to pay sahins wages on top of a signing on fee for him to only stay a season. its only a Madrid win win situation. and when did we become their training camp.
posted on 24/8/12
anfield, they know how good sahin is! they just wanted him to regain his form (dortmund days) and the physicality aspect of his game by playing in the prem. i believe they want to keep him if he hits it of in the prem or sell him at a higher price, and also if he doesnt hit it off, they will be prepared to let him go.
posted on 24/8/12
RAP, option to buy would mean a fee was agreed and at any time during the loan if the fee was offered Real would have to sell.
Without it, if Sahin has a great season and Real still sell, they can put any price on him.
posted on 24/8/12
It all depends on how well he does, if he gets them into CL for next year the single year loan is worth it and will be considered a successful one. same time, he does so well only to leave will hurt LFC and the fans.
I think Mourino wants to hang onto him, hence let him go out, get some game time, and get back into the Real squad for next season. Is indeed a win win for Real.
I understand AFC stance too, when we have the likes of Eisfield and youngsters in our own squad, why invest and take a risk on a player who will leave when you have players on your door step.
But agree, a year without Sahin might tempt Real into selling anyway come next year.
posted on 24/8/12
Tryna soften the blow lads, look f he plays well and bring the club success I the next 12 months then great, f not send him back.
I'm glad we ave got some players on loan, it's better than buying a player for 20 mill then him being crap and on big wages.
At the end of the day if you continue to sell your best payers and then not replace th you will end up win a big stadium and midtable, I know because it happened to us!!
Good luck for next year!
posted on 24/8/12
you will end up win a big stadium and midtable, I know because it happened to us!!
=========
Except the big stadium bit.
posted on 24/8/12
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 24/8/12
RAP, thats the thing, for Liverpool it may be a good deal but for Arsenal I don't think it is.
We are already accused of training players up for bigger clubs, this will be a step too far!!
There is a chance of Sahin becoming a permanent signing, but if he does well then Real could play hardball and push the price up ridiculously high.
posted on 24/8/12
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 24/8/12
Some of the comments by Arsenal fans regarding Real are a bit silly though. He is a Real player, and if they don't to insert a purchase fee then that is their right, if they don't want to send him to Arsenal then that is their right.
posted on 24/8/12
Without an option, this really is a terrible deal for Liverpool.
posted on 24/8/12
The fact is that Arsenal want to develop the player and don't want Real to have the power to just take him back. Personally I think we should have just accepted this and cracked on with the season with Sahin being a bonus player. I guess there were reasons why this was not taken as Wenger and the board are not stupid!
Looking on the bright side, somebody else will come in, there is enough time left. Who will it be??
posted on 24/8/12
If he has a good season for us, he will be worth the 4 million.
posted on 24/8/12
no fecking way should we take any youngish player on loabn without the option to buy what sets our club apart from most is our ability to improve players, how much did we make from Nasri and Co. Now some fans want us to do it for Madrid for free (infact we would be paying for the privoledge).
posted on 24/8/12
Personally I think we should have just accepted this and cracked on with the season with Sahin being a bonus player.
----------------------------------
Why?
Without an option Sahin has no commitment to the club. Is he going to go into those challenges fully committed knowing an injury will finish his career at Real Madrid where he is earning £120k a week?
I am sorry but Mourinho's main complaint with Sahin is his lack of desire. Sending him away for a year ain't going to change that.
posted on 24/8/12
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 24/8/12
I tell you exactly why we should have accepted it: We have Wilshire to come back but in the meantime we need somebody with skills to do a job for us. Sahin could have filled in very well. Yes it would have been nice to own him but Real didn't want this and they own the player.
It would be in the players best interest to play well, all young players want to do is play well. They are not going to think far beyond this.
posted on 24/8/12
Sahin and Allen add enough class to hopefully point us in the direction of the top 4 again, and if we find someone who knows how to score goals
-----------------------------------------
The problem is that you will never be able to judge the commitment of the player. Generally when players move on loan to big clubs (and unlike many of my gooner brethren, I still consider Liverpool a big club), there is an incentive for the player to earn a contract. That keeps harmony in the dressing room and cultivates team spirit. Players know they are in it together. There is none of that. Now you have a mercenary whose his team mates will always question his commitment if he misses a challenge or doesn't track back. Its worse for Sahin because that is the reason given by Mourinho for not playing him.
posted on 24/8/12
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 24/8/12
I tell you exactly why we should have accepted it: We have Wilshire to come back but in the meantime we need somebody with skills to do a job for us. Sahin could have filled in very well.
-----------------------------------------
a) Wilshere has probably played as much as Sahin in the last year. Sahin is not match fit. Nor does he have experience of our system. Our system is similar to Barca/Bilbao etc not Madrid. There is very little chance he could have fitted in immediately to have the type of impact you expect that we need before Wilshere returns to fitness.
b) Consider the fact that Arsene sold Song and RVP because of their wage demands. Sahin is on £120k a week. How do you think the dressing room would have reacted after all the nonsense of the summer? Theo is still in that protracted negotiation with the club. Some of that would have been mitigated if the dressing room knew that Sahin had a long term future with the club. But without an option it was stupid!
posted on 24/8/12
doesn't mean we won't look to sign him at the end of the loan if he's successful.
--------------------------------
I am sorry but you have no chance of that. Thats why there is no option to buy. If Sahin performs he will be back at Madrid to replace Alonso. If he doesn't succeed why would Liverpool buy him and pay him the same as Gerrard?
I think without an option its a lose-lose situation. I am thankful we didn't touch it if there was no option.
posted on 24/8/12
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 24/8/12
Real don't want the clause because they want to keep their options open, not because they're 100% certain he'll be in their first team once he's had a year of Premier League football.
--------------------------------------------
Real Madrid's bankers are Bankia. They are one the main banks that have been bailed out by the EZ. They have been instructed to reduce the debt that they hold of Madrid. Thats meant getting rid of players who sitting on huge wages in the reserves. Whatsmore they cannot pay the type of wages they have done in the past to their current players. This is why all negotiations have broken down with Alonso. He will leave. Sahin is expected to replace him because he is on less money.
Bankia are looking at every deal that Madrid are doing at the moment. That means they know that we have offered a £14m buy out option. This reduces the risk on that portion of debt completely. There is no way that Real Madrid would have turned Arsenal with preference for a no buy-out clause unless Mourinho was sure that he wanted him back.
As I suggested if he does well, he will be Madrid player, or his transfer will be far greater than £14m. If he fails then who wants to pay his wages? Its a lose-lose.
Page 1 of 1