My god!!!
What a set of fan's we are.
How can anyone know abt the supposed tactical knowledge of an assistant manager.
And the main job of Assistant manager is not just tactics, but relationship with players, acting as a bridge b/w manager and the players.
Tactics are mostly seen to by First team coach which is Mulensteen. God knows what Phelan has done for so many of our fans to diss him.
Maybe he does have good tactical ideas but SAF overrides them. And Quiroz has not really been a success since leaving us.
Why do people assume SAF talks tactics with Phelan.
Phelan basically trains the players. SAF tells him what to do.
SAF has hsi tactical chats with Rene.
This is patently obvious when you watch the pair of them on match days.
..................
Steve McClaren was another top assistant and we won the treble with him.
..............
McClaren had very little input in the treble season. He didn't join us until well over half way through the season.
Vidicschin (U3584)
Exactly.
How lazy and ignorant is this article.
is Mulensteen or phelan our assistant? saf always seems to talk to mulensteen a lot more and phelan
I think the problem fans have is that with Queiroz it was very clear what he brought to the team and he came with an impressive CV.
He was responsible for some of our transfer dealings, he took charge of our tactics which G Nev described in great detail the amount of work Queiroz went into before the CL semi against Barca and generally made us (tactically) the team we were while he was around. The reason he hasn't done so well as a manager probably just shows that he is more suited to the assistant role where he can concentrate on getting the team to listen to his tactics and ideas while someone like Ferguson can deal with the more human elements of being a manager.
Of course there are many elements to what an assistant can bring and right now we have 2 of them, I just think a lot of fans like myself actually wonder what skills Phelan brings, I guess it doesn't help that he looks like someone's clueless fat uncle most of the time.
I'm sure he does something for us, I just think none of us actually know what.
manutd1982 (U6633)
Correct.
There is no way for anyone of us to know what exactly his input is to the team than how can we possible judge him.
Based on his name and looks.
Really!!!!
I've heard that Mickey Phelan is the best man at OT for wearing his shorts when its freezing cold on match days.
how the hell do you know that phelan is a yes man?
Fergie is Phelans bi tch everyone knows that
Phelan is the postman and Fergie is the letterbox
generally speaking, if you have a lot of fast, quality players you can win the league with a great motivator (like Fergie) but tactically limited 4-4-2 'go score more than them' setup (like Fergie has always done except for when Ronaldo forced his hand by being so &*((ing good at football)
It generally leads to getting found out by better sides in the CL though.
Good article.
which maybe why we seem to have changed style this season redconn(good point), with the transfers we have made, particularly kagawa and a switch to a 4 2 3 1 formation after last seasons failure in the CL
redconn > (U5676)
If u r really serious that 442 that UTD played was "score more than them" setup ,then u r in cloud cuckoo my friend.
Just see our record, we have always had the best or second best defense whenevr we have won the league.
And abt Fergie's tactical limitations, he purchased Carrick in 05-06 to replace Keane. Almost everyone laughed at him, but Carrick became the bed rock of our European success there after.
We are still the top2 seeded team in Europe just after Barca and have been in 3 finals since.
SAF is much more than ur mere 1st team coaches(like Rafa), man managers(like Arry).
He is Everything and everyone at Manchester United.
He is involved in Transfers, Negotiations, academy, first team, tactics, relationships.
And abt getting found by better sides, that is bcos other sides have better players. Fergie does not have the luxury of technicallyy excellent spanish kids he can develop at club academy, he has to do with overhyped technically limited english ones. Also the constraints we live with thanks to our owners.
I think in the shadow of Quieroz, any assistant manager will look bad.
Although having said that Phelan does appear to be above criticism for a lot of people.
The points the OP makes about Phelan being less "adept" do appear to have some relevance to them. Don't think it's fair to simply write this article off as "terrible" without at least engaging in the content.
Surely the main point of the article was to highlight the fact Queiroz was an excellent assistant manager which was quite clear for all to see.
It doesn't seem quite so clear what Phelan actually offers us in comparison and for a club like United we should always be striving for the best and if that means looking at possible options for an assistant then so be it.
A club like United should never strive for mediocrity and should always be looking to improve in every area of the club. Although I'm sure Ferguson knows better than all of us.
Park Ji (Moggard) Sung (U13708)
Come on PJS.
As others have pointed out, Rene is the one more into tactics.
Phelan is more of a bridge b/w SAF and players.
And i m sure he does what SAF wants him to do. We will never know the extent of his responsibilities /duties so why discuss his non-apparent limitations.
Threads like these quickly take on a mob mentality when 3 or 4 posters criticise him and then all others join in without an ounce of knowledge.
And for me personally , not even SAF is above criticism. But we can criticise somebody only when we know what's his job which is not the case with Mick.
And as far as Quiroz is concerned, Neville also said that Quiroz sessions could be quite boring and bland.
That was Neville, a pure hard worker who found football sessions boring so think abt the other players with different mindsets.
VSmile - Yeah I know mate, but what I'm saying is I don't think it's fair for people to just say "Terrible article" or "WUM" without actually debating what the OP wrote.
Out of interest was Rene about when Quieroz was? Or has the Assistant Manager role been broken into two between Rene and Phelan after Carlos left?
rene was here when quieroz was here and was the skills coach i believe then he left to manage brondby and then came back i think PJS
Park Ji (Moggard) Sung (U13708)
Meulensteen had been the academy and reserve team Skills Development Coach before he left to become a first team coach.
He then returned to United in 2007 to become Technical Skills Development Coach.
You can see his influence on the youth and reserve team players over the 4-5 years because a lot of the players coming through the youth system now are a lot better technically than what players a decade ago were and the way both the U-18 and U-21 sides like to play football now is a lot more focused on getting the ball down and playing with it on the ground.
The football the academy and reserve team produce at times is such a joy to watch.
God awful article. The same fans were chanting 4-4-2 and booing Quieroz because we had started playing a brand of 4-5-1. The same people now think he was the tactician extraordinaire.
I appreciate that this place is an opportunity to express opinions but that doesn't mean people should just keep on posting garbage.
Delete this tripe please
"God knows what Phelan has done for so many of our fans to diss him."
__________________
True but I think it is more the fact that we just don't know what Phelan has done. Full stop. I don't say that to disrespect Phelan, I just have no idea what he does or how he does it.
"I think the problem fans have is that with Queiroz it was very clear what he brought to the team and he came with an impressive CV.
He was responsible for some of our transfer dealings, he took charge of our tactics which G Nev described in great detail the amount of work Queiroz went into before the CL semi against Barca and generally made us (tactically) the team we were while he was around. The reason he hasn't done so well as a manager probably just shows that he is more suited to the assistant role where he can concentrate on getting the team to listen to his tactics and ideas while someone like Ferguson can deal with the more human elements of being a manager.
Of course there are many elements to what an assistant can bring and right now we have 2 of them, I just think a lot of fans like myself actually wonder what skills Phelan brings, I guess it doesn't help that he looks like someone's clueless fat uncle most of the time.
I'm sure he does something for us, I just think none of us actually know what."
________________
I.e. ^ this
With him as SAF's understudy we won the double, albeit with a Ronaldo, Tevez and a fit Hargreaves
****
@comment by Valencia_Smile
well, I don't really agree so
seriously I don't
Fergie is top of the pile at some things, others he's not special IMO. Especially tactics.
Everyone has strengths and weaknesses. Everyone.
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 12 hours, 51 minutes ago
Surely the main point of the article was to highlight the fact Queiroz was an excellent assistant manager which was quite clear for all to see.
It doesn't seem quite so clear what Phelan actually offers us in comparison and for a club like United we should always be striving for the best and if that means looking at possible options for an assistant then so be it.
A club like United should never strive for mediocrity and should always be looking to improve in every area of the club. Although I'm sure Ferguson knows better than all of us.
-----------
Spot on
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Assistant managers, downhill since Quierez?
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posted on 28/8/12
My god!!!
What a set of fan's we are.
How can anyone know abt the supposed tactical knowledge of an assistant manager.
And the main job of Assistant manager is not just tactics, but relationship with players, acting as a bridge b/w manager and the players.
Tactics are mostly seen to by First team coach which is Mulensteen. God knows what Phelan has done for so many of our fans to diss him.
Maybe he does have good tactical ideas but SAF overrides them. And Quiroz has not really been a success since leaving us.
posted on 28/8/12
Why do people assume SAF talks tactics with Phelan.
Phelan basically trains the players. SAF tells him what to do.
SAF has hsi tactical chats with Rene.
This is patently obvious when you watch the pair of them on match days.
..................
Steve McClaren was another top assistant and we won the treble with him.
..............
McClaren had very little input in the treble season. He didn't join us until well over half way through the season.
posted on 28/8/12
Vidicschin (U3584)
Exactly.
How lazy and ignorant is this article.
posted on 28/8/12
is Mulensteen or phelan our assistant? saf always seems to talk to mulensteen a lot more and phelan
posted on 28/8/12
I think the problem fans have is that with Queiroz it was very clear what he brought to the team and he came with an impressive CV.
He was responsible for some of our transfer dealings, he took charge of our tactics which G Nev described in great detail the amount of work Queiroz went into before the CL semi against Barca and generally made us (tactically) the team we were while he was around. The reason he hasn't done so well as a manager probably just shows that he is more suited to the assistant role where he can concentrate on getting the team to listen to his tactics and ideas while someone like Ferguson can deal with the more human elements of being a manager.
Of course there are many elements to what an assistant can bring and right now we have 2 of them, I just think a lot of fans like myself actually wonder what skills Phelan brings, I guess it doesn't help that he looks like someone's clueless fat uncle most of the time.
I'm sure he does something for us, I just think none of us actually know what.
posted on 28/8/12
manutd1982 (U6633)
Correct.
There is no way for anyone of us to know what exactly his input is to the team than how can we possible judge him.
Based on his name and looks.
Really!!!!
posted on 28/8/12
I've heard that Mickey Phelan is the best man at OT for wearing his shorts when its freezing cold on match days.
posted on 28/8/12
how the hell do you know that phelan is a yes man?
posted on 28/8/12
Fergie is Phelans bi tch everyone knows that
Phelan is the postman and Fergie is the letterbox
posted on 28/8/12
generally speaking, if you have a lot of fast, quality players you can win the league with a great motivator (like Fergie) but tactically limited 4-4-2 'go score more than them' setup (like Fergie has always done except for when Ronaldo forced his hand by being so &*((ing good at football)
It generally leads to getting found out by better sides in the CL though.
Good article.
posted on 28/8/12
which maybe why we seem to have changed style this season redconn(good point), with the transfers we have made, particularly kagawa and a switch to a 4 2 3 1 formation after last seasons failure in the CL
posted on 28/8/12
redconn > (U5676)
If u r really serious that 442 that UTD played was "score more than them" setup ,then u r in cloud cuckoo my friend.
Just see our record, we have always had the best or second best defense whenevr we have won the league.
And abt Fergie's tactical limitations, he purchased Carrick in 05-06 to replace Keane. Almost everyone laughed at him, but Carrick became the bed rock of our European success there after.
We are still the top2 seeded team in Europe just after Barca and have been in 3 finals since.
SAF is much more than ur mere 1st team coaches(like Rafa), man managers(like Arry).
He is Everything and everyone at Manchester United.
He is involved in Transfers, Negotiations, academy, first team, tactics, relationships.
And abt getting found by better sides, that is bcos other sides have better players. Fergie does not have the luxury of technicallyy excellent spanish kids he can develop at club academy, he has to do with overhyped technically limited english ones. Also the constraints we live with thanks to our owners.
posted on 28/8/12
Terrible article.
posted on 28/8/12
I think in the shadow of Quieroz, any assistant manager will look bad.
posted on 28/8/12
Although having said that Phelan does appear to be above criticism for a lot of people.
The points the OP makes about Phelan being less "adept" do appear to have some relevance to them. Don't think it's fair to simply write this article off as "terrible" without at least engaging in the content.
posted on 28/8/12
Surely the main point of the article was to highlight the fact Queiroz was an excellent assistant manager which was quite clear for all to see.
It doesn't seem quite so clear what Phelan actually offers us in comparison and for a club like United we should always be striving for the best and if that means looking at possible options for an assistant then so be it.
A club like United should never strive for mediocrity and should always be looking to improve in every area of the club. Although I'm sure Ferguson knows better than all of us.
posted on 28/8/12
Park Ji (Moggard) Sung (U13708)
Come on PJS.
As others have pointed out, Rene is the one more into tactics.
Phelan is more of a bridge b/w SAF and players.
And i m sure he does what SAF wants him to do. We will never know the extent of his responsibilities /duties so why discuss his non-apparent limitations.
Threads like these quickly take on a mob mentality when 3 or 4 posters criticise him and then all others join in without an ounce of knowledge.
And for me personally , not even SAF is above criticism. But we can criticise somebody only when we know what's his job which is not the case with Mick.
And as far as Quiroz is concerned, Neville also said that Quiroz sessions could be quite boring and bland.
That was Neville, a pure hard worker who found football sessions boring so think abt the other players with different mindsets.
posted on 28/8/12
VSmile - Yeah I know mate, but what I'm saying is I don't think it's fair for people to just say "Terrible article" or "WUM" without actually debating what the OP wrote.
Out of interest was Rene about when Quieroz was? Or has the Assistant Manager role been broken into two between Rene and Phelan after Carlos left?
posted on 28/8/12
rene was here when quieroz was here and was the skills coach i believe then he left to manage brondby and then came back i think PJS
posted on 28/8/12
Park Ji (Moggard) Sung (U13708)
Meulensteen had been the academy and reserve team Skills Development Coach before he left to become a first team coach.
He then returned to United in 2007 to become Technical Skills Development Coach.
You can see his influence on the youth and reserve team players over the 4-5 years because a lot of the players coming through the youth system now are a lot better technically than what players a decade ago were and the way both the U-18 and U-21 sides like to play football now is a lot more focused on getting the ball down and playing with it on the ground.
The football the academy and reserve team produce at times is such a joy to watch.
posted on 28/8/12
God awful article. The same fans were chanting 4-4-2 and booing Quieroz because we had started playing a brand of 4-5-1. The same people now think he was the tactician extraordinaire.
I appreciate that this place is an opportunity to express opinions but that doesn't mean people should just keep on posting garbage.
Delete this tripe please
posted on 28/8/12
"God knows what Phelan has done for so many of our fans to diss him."
__________________
True but I think it is more the fact that we just don't know what Phelan has done. Full stop. I don't say that to disrespect Phelan, I just have no idea what he does or how he does it.
"I think the problem fans have is that with Queiroz it was very clear what he brought to the team and he came with an impressive CV.
He was responsible for some of our transfer dealings, he took charge of our tactics which G Nev described in great detail the amount of work Queiroz went into before the CL semi against Barca and generally made us (tactically) the team we were while he was around. The reason he hasn't done so well as a manager probably just shows that he is more suited to the assistant role where he can concentrate on getting the team to listen to his tactics and ideas while someone like Ferguson can deal with the more human elements of being a manager.
Of course there are many elements to what an assistant can bring and right now we have 2 of them, I just think a lot of fans like myself actually wonder what skills Phelan brings, I guess it doesn't help that he looks like someone's clueless fat uncle most of the time.
I'm sure he does something for us, I just think none of us actually know what."
________________
I.e. ^ this
posted on 28/8/12
With him as SAF's understudy we won the double, albeit with a Ronaldo, Tevez and a fit Hargreaves
****
posted on 28/8/12
@comment by Valencia_Smile
well, I don't really agree so
seriously I don't
Fergie is top of the pile at some things, others he's not special IMO. Especially tactics.
Everyone has strengths and weaknesses. Everyone.
posted on 29/8/12
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 12 hours, 51 minutes ago
Surely the main point of the article was to highlight the fact Queiroz was an excellent assistant manager which was quite clear for all to see.
It doesn't seem quite so clear what Phelan actually offers us in comparison and for a club like United we should always be striving for the best and if that means looking at possible options for an assistant then so be it.
A club like United should never strive for mediocrity and should always be looking to improve in every area of the club. Although I'm sure Ferguson knows better than all of us.
-----------
Spot on
Page 1 of 1