They need to publicly come out and explain why the Dempsey DEAL collapsed.
-------------------
No they don't. Do the Glazers come out and talk about things at Man Utd? Does Kroenke come out and talk about Arsenal? Does the Sheik or Roman come out about Man City or Chelsea? Why do we expect FSG to justify every decision they make to us?
We didn't get Dempsey, get over it and move on.
If you believe BR will get it right if given time then it certainly doesn't show in your demeanour. Its like your just saying it because its a convenient thing to say.
--------
I have always been one hundred percent behind the manager. Check my post history, then you can come back and apologise
Our owners is where my concern lies. Thay are'nt another H&G and dislike it when comparisons are made, indeed they have done some good things for the club.
However, it is also my opinion that they have made some poor decisions and I question whether they have grasped the nuances on the footballing side of the business they have purchased.
Just to reiterate I have been very impressed with BR. I like the way he addressed the big issue which was imo the midfield and our ability to retain the ball. I was obviously less impressed by the over-riding importance of reducing the wage bill, only to leave ourselves short of options in the final third.
I don't think this was the manager fault, but so far we have yet to hear what the full story may or may not have been. However, it is BR who is having to field the awkward questions about it (a bit over dramatic perhaps, but in a way being left out to dry). He can't tell us if he feels let down, but my guess that he probably does.
FJM
The reason an explanation is needed is because not buying Dempsey and a.n other striker has left us in the proverbial. It's also undermined BR and made him look like an idiot, after his 'nutcase' comment about Carroll. It's also raised concerns about whether we've got the finances to compete on the transfer market. Could we not afford the extra couple of million, or was the Dempsey deal a matter of principle.
All reasonable questions IMO .
All reasonable questions IMO
Agreed
Bottomline is if you spend what Kenny spent you are expected to do better than he did regardless of where the money came from.
He's a legand but everyone makes mistakes. Also we couldn't really have a long term plan with Kenny, the kind we could have with someone like BR.
Our owners is where my concern lies. Thay are'nt another H&G and dislike it when comparisons are made, indeed they have done some good things for the club.
However, it is also my opinion that they have made some poor decisions and I question whether they have grasped the nuances on the footballing side of the business they have purchased.
---------------------------
PPD, I think the fault lies in the Managing Director. The owners don't need to have a knowledge of football, they are businessmen. The Glazers have no knowledge of football but they have David Gill as Chief Exec. Roman doesn't know about football per se but they had Peter Kenyon in place, and now Ron Gourlay. Arsenal had David Dein and have become less successful since he left.
I think Ian Ayre is our weakness at the moment. He is supposed to be the link between the manager and the owners, and I don't think he's doing the business.
red man
Agree totally. I think fans deserve answers as we're the ones with the emotional connection to the club.
"I think Ian Ayre is our weakness at the moment. He is supposed to be the link between the manager and the owners, and I don't think he's doing the business"
Agree with this .
Ian Ayre has done fantastic commercially, but in terms of the footballing side of things he's no better than Parry it would seem.
Ian Ayre should be CEO and we should sign somebody to deal with transfers and be the manager's direct report.
All fans have reasonable questions they'd put to the club. Mancini was throwing a fit at City despite all they've spent recently because he wasn't satisfied with the window! I would be disappointed if FSG responded to such.
But Red Mamba.
I think we need to know why Brendan was undermined so. If it was a case of human error in the office and things going wrong then fair enough but if the owners didn't want to fund him then that's not good.
I think Ian Ayre is our weakness at the moment. He is supposed to be the link between the manager and the owners, and I don't think he's doing the business.
-------------
FatJan, I have read some rumours that the club maybe looking for a new MD. I wouldn't be too surprised if Ayre were to be out of a job in the not too distant future.
Ian Ayre should go back to being Commercial Director.
I think I have an possible theory about the Dempsey deal. It's all speculation but bear with me. I think the owners may have had a hand in it. I think it's possible that after being shafted on Carroll, Henderson and Downing the owners wanted to send out the message that we won't be ducked about, in the transfer market, anymore. They possibly thought that in 'playing hardball' in the Dempsey deal it says that other clubs can't just name their price, and we'll pay up. Unfortunatley it backfired big time.
I may be wide of the mark. This is all based on speculation. But IMO it's a possibility.
i don't get how you can put all this down to ian ayre? you don't know what goes behind the scenes! as far as i'm concerned, our job as fans is to get behind the team and the manager. BR is the right man for this job. Give him time and he will succeed. yes it disappointing we didn't sign any strikers on deadline day but don't think for one moment that BR isn't either. i'm just glad that everybody seems to see the problem that we have. hopefully FSG will give BR the funds to sort that problem and then we can expect.
red_man23, Fred, PPD, I don't think FSG do need to answer why we didn't get Dempsey at all. In fact I think that is playing into the hands of the type of fans we're talking about - the ones who have no patience with the manager or owners. It gives them another stick to beat them with.
I was disappointed we got rid of Carroll without a replacement, but there's nothing we can do now until the next transfer window. FSG coming out and giving us reasons won't change that. We forget it, move on, and get behind the team and manager.
I know we all have an emotional tie with the club, but I'm afraid that doesn't matter here. This is business and we're not shareholders. FSG do not need to justify every decision they make whether we like it or not. What we do do with our emotional connection is get behind the team we do have and get behind the manager.
Fair point FJM,
But it does rankle with me that BR has to face the questions when the situation may not have been an error on his part.
I suppose that's part of the job and he has to bite the bullet if this is the case.
Fred, I heard that call and to be fair to the fella he said that BR was an idiot for letting AC go without getting a replacement. BR more or less said the same thing himself last week. Ok, he didn't call for himself to be sacked but, given subsequent events, he has by his own admission been proven to be an idiot. I don't agree with the caller but BR has presided over another transfer window fiasco
I find it curious that the blame for the obvious failings of the previous transfer windows have been placed firmly on Kenny but the general concensus is that BR has been let down by the owners for the latest fiasco.
The bottom line is that we have yet again been well and truly shown up as incompetent in the transfer market under FSG. There are obvious failings at the top, as ARE and Shorligtht have been saying for a long time. They need to be resolved by the owners asap.
There are obvious failings at the top, as ARE and Shorligtht have been saying for a long time. They need to be resolved by the owners asap.
------------------------
No, ARE and Shortlight are anti-FSG, they haven't said there are failings at the top at all; they blame FSG for everything.
The problems lies with whoever is supposed to be dealing with our transfer negotiations. John Henry doesn't do this, Ian Ayre does so the responsibility lies with him. FSG aren't football men and they don't need to be. Ian Ayre is the man who should be telling them what transfer funds are needed for what types of players, he should be making sure that business is done properly (no leaks like Dempsey rumours), he should be doing his business early on and not the last day of the window. Once Fulham started playing up as they did a few weeks before transfer deadline day, we should have had other targets in place. In the end we were left with out pant down with no other options. This is not FSG's fault.
FJM, you've lost me there. They are anti-FSG and FSG are at the top. If there are administrative failings in the organisation they are the responsibility of FSG. Which is what they've been saying
How you can exonerate FSG so easily? The buck stops with them. Our transfer dealings under different managers, since they arrived have been frankly embarrassing. They are the ones whose investment is suffering because of this, and they are in charge, so the responsibility to fix it is theirs. Who else would be responsible for protecting their investment?
If anybody needs a cheer up then Airplane 2 is on Sky 2.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
FJM, you've lost me there. They are anti-FSG and FSG are at the top. If there are administrative failings in the organisation they are the responsibility of FSG. Which is what they've been saying
--------------------
No they've been saying that FSG are asset stripping, that they do not have the club's best interest to heart and that they are similar to H & G.
That is not what you're saying which is they need address the issues with the adminstration. There are rumours that Ian Ayre will be replaced after the deadline day fiasco, which means they are dealing with it.
I'm not exonerating them, but neither am I blaming them for everything. They;ve done some good things since coming to the club, they've done some not so good things. There are areas that need to be looked at - Ian Ayre is one of them in my opinion.
FSG are business men, they are not football men. They require people around them, managing the club, advising them. The owners don't get involved in the day to day business such as transfers, they employ people to do that. They set a budget, the scouts and BR identify players and Ian Ayre negotiates deals.
As PPD has said several times they have instigated a huge clearout of the playing staff which will save millions in wages and left us with very few options. This is akin to asset stripping unless the money saved is ploughed back into the playing staff. Has the sponsor money been invested in the team? I'm far from convinced that they are even trying to act in the best interests of the club, let alone suceeding
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posted on 2/9/12
spot on FJM
posted on 2/9/12
They need to publicly come out and explain why the Dempsey DEAL collapsed.
-------------------
No they don't. Do the Glazers come out and talk about things at Man Utd? Does Kroenke come out and talk about Arsenal? Does the Sheik or Roman come out about Man City or Chelsea? Why do we expect FSG to justify every decision they make to us?
We didn't get Dempsey, get over it and move on.
posted on 2/9/12
If you believe BR will get it right if given time then it certainly doesn't show in your demeanour. Its like your just saying it because its a convenient thing to say.
--------
I have always been one hundred percent behind the manager. Check my post history, then you can come back and apologise
Our owners is where my concern lies. Thay are'nt another H&G and dislike it when comparisons are made, indeed they have done some good things for the club.
However, it is also my opinion that they have made some poor decisions and I question whether they have grasped the nuances on the footballing side of the business they have purchased.
Just to reiterate I have been very impressed with BR. I like the way he addressed the big issue which was imo the midfield and our ability to retain the ball. I was obviously less impressed by the over-riding importance of reducing the wage bill, only to leave ourselves short of options in the final third.
I don't think this was the manager fault, but so far we have yet to hear what the full story may or may not have been. However, it is BR who is having to field the awkward questions about it (a bit over dramatic perhaps, but in a way being left out to dry). He can't tell us if he feels let down, but my guess that he probably does.
posted on 2/9/12
FJM
The reason an explanation is needed is because not buying Dempsey and a.n other striker has left us in the proverbial. It's also undermined BR and made him look like an idiot, after his 'nutcase' comment about Carroll. It's also raised concerns about whether we've got the finances to compete on the transfer market. Could we not afford the extra couple of million, or was the Dempsey deal a matter of principle.
All reasonable questions IMO .
posted on 2/9/12
All reasonable questions IMO
Agreed
posted on 2/9/12
Bottomline is if you spend what Kenny spent you are expected to do better than he did regardless of where the money came from.
He's a legand but everyone makes mistakes. Also we couldn't really have a long term plan with Kenny, the kind we could have with someone like BR.
posted on 2/9/12
Our owners is where my concern lies. Thay are'nt another H&G and dislike it when comparisons are made, indeed they have done some good things for the club.
However, it is also my opinion that they have made some poor decisions and I question whether they have grasped the nuances on the footballing side of the business they have purchased.
---------------------------
PPD, I think the fault lies in the Managing Director. The owners don't need to have a knowledge of football, they are businessmen. The Glazers have no knowledge of football but they have David Gill as Chief Exec. Roman doesn't know about football per se but they had Peter Kenyon in place, and now Ron Gourlay. Arsenal had David Dein and have become less successful since he left.
I think Ian Ayre is our weakness at the moment. He is supposed to be the link between the manager and the owners, and I don't think he's doing the business.
posted on 2/9/12
red man
Agree totally. I think fans deserve answers as we're the ones with the emotional connection to the club.
posted on 2/9/12
"I think Ian Ayre is our weakness at the moment. He is supposed to be the link between the manager and the owners, and I don't think he's doing the business"
Agree with this .
posted on 2/9/12
Ian Ayre has done fantastic commercially, but in terms of the footballing side of things he's no better than Parry it would seem.
Ian Ayre should be CEO and we should sign somebody to deal with transfers and be the manager's direct report.
posted on 2/9/12
All fans have reasonable questions they'd put to the club. Mancini was throwing a fit at City despite all they've spent recently because he wasn't satisfied with the window! I would be disappointed if FSG responded to such.
posted on 2/9/12
But Red Mamba.
I think we need to know why Brendan was undermined so. If it was a case of human error in the office and things going wrong then fair enough but if the owners didn't want to fund him then that's not good.
posted on 2/9/12
I think Ian Ayre is our weakness at the moment. He is supposed to be the link between the manager and the owners, and I don't think he's doing the business.
-------------
FatJan, I have read some rumours that the club maybe looking for a new MD. I wouldn't be too surprised if Ayre were to be out of a job in the not too distant future.
posted on 2/9/12
Ian Ayre should go back to being Commercial Director.
posted on 2/9/12
I think I have an possible theory about the Dempsey deal. It's all speculation but bear with me. I think the owners may have had a hand in it. I think it's possible that after being shafted on Carroll, Henderson and Downing the owners wanted to send out the message that we won't be ducked about, in the transfer market, anymore. They possibly thought that in 'playing hardball' in the Dempsey deal it says that other clubs can't just name their price, and we'll pay up. Unfortunatley it backfired big time.
I may be wide of the mark. This is all based on speculation. But IMO it's a possibility.
posted on 2/9/12
i don't get how you can put all this down to ian ayre? you don't know what goes behind the scenes! as far as i'm concerned, our job as fans is to get behind the team and the manager. BR is the right man for this job. Give him time and he will succeed. yes it disappointing we didn't sign any strikers on deadline day but don't think for one moment that BR isn't either. i'm just glad that everybody seems to see the problem that we have. hopefully FSG will give BR the funds to sort that problem and then we can expect.
posted on 2/9/12
red_man23, Fred, PPD, I don't think FSG do need to answer why we didn't get Dempsey at all. In fact I think that is playing into the hands of the type of fans we're talking about - the ones who have no patience with the manager or owners. It gives them another stick to beat them with.
I was disappointed we got rid of Carroll without a replacement, but there's nothing we can do now until the next transfer window. FSG coming out and giving us reasons won't change that. We forget it, move on, and get behind the team and manager.
I know we all have an emotional tie with the club, but I'm afraid that doesn't matter here. This is business and we're not shareholders. FSG do not need to justify every decision they make whether we like it or not. What we do do with our emotional connection is get behind the team we do have and get behind the manager.
posted on 2/9/12
Fair point FJM,
But it does rankle with me that BR has to face the questions when the situation may not have been an error on his part.
I suppose that's part of the job and he has to bite the bullet if this is the case.
posted on 2/9/12
Fred, I heard that call and to be fair to the fella he said that BR was an idiot for letting AC go without getting a replacement. BR more or less said the same thing himself last week. Ok, he didn't call for himself to be sacked but, given subsequent events, he has by his own admission been proven to be an idiot. I don't agree with the caller but BR has presided over another transfer window fiasco
I find it curious that the blame for the obvious failings of the previous transfer windows have been placed firmly on Kenny but the general concensus is that BR has been let down by the owners for the latest fiasco.
The bottom line is that we have yet again been well and truly shown up as incompetent in the transfer market under FSG. There are obvious failings at the top, as ARE and Shorligtht have been saying for a long time. They need to be resolved by the owners asap.
posted on 2/9/12
There are obvious failings at the top, as ARE and Shorligtht have been saying for a long time. They need to be resolved by the owners asap.
------------------------
No, ARE and Shortlight are anti-FSG, they haven't said there are failings at the top at all; they blame FSG for everything.
The problems lies with whoever is supposed to be dealing with our transfer negotiations. John Henry doesn't do this, Ian Ayre does so the responsibility lies with him. FSG aren't football men and they don't need to be. Ian Ayre is the man who should be telling them what transfer funds are needed for what types of players, he should be making sure that business is done properly (no leaks like Dempsey rumours), he should be doing his business early on and not the last day of the window. Once Fulham started playing up as they did a few weeks before transfer deadline day, we should have had other targets in place. In the end we were left with out pant down with no other options. This is not FSG's fault.
posted on 2/9/12
FJM, you've lost me there. They are anti-FSG and FSG are at the top. If there are administrative failings in the organisation they are the responsibility of FSG. Which is what they've been saying
How you can exonerate FSG so easily? The buck stops with them. Our transfer dealings under different managers, since they arrived have been frankly embarrassing. They are the ones whose investment is suffering because of this, and they are in charge, so the responsibility to fix it is theirs. Who else would be responsible for protecting their investment?
posted on 2/9/12
If anybody needs a cheer up then Airplane 2 is on Sky 2.
posted on 2/9/12
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 2/9/12
FJM, you've lost me there. They are anti-FSG and FSG are at the top. If there are administrative failings in the organisation they are the responsibility of FSG. Which is what they've been saying
--------------------
No they've been saying that FSG are asset stripping, that they do not have the club's best interest to heart and that they are similar to H & G.
That is not what you're saying which is they need address the issues with the adminstration. There are rumours that Ian Ayre will be replaced after the deadline day fiasco, which means they are dealing with it.
I'm not exonerating them, but neither am I blaming them for everything. They;ve done some good things since coming to the club, they've done some not so good things. There are areas that need to be looked at - Ian Ayre is one of them in my opinion.
FSG are business men, they are not football men. They require people around them, managing the club, advising them. The owners don't get involved in the day to day business such as transfers, they employ people to do that. They set a budget, the scouts and BR identify players and Ian Ayre negotiates deals.
posted on 2/9/12
As PPD has said several times they have instigated a huge clearout of the playing staff which will save millions in wages and left us with very few options. This is akin to asset stripping unless the money saved is ploughed back into the playing staff. Has the sponsor money been invested in the team? I'm far from convinced that they are even trying to act in the best interests of the club, let alone suceeding
Page 2 of 2