I'm not so sure the quality of the player makes the quality of the coach.

Whelan played in the top league, Clough was an international. I am sure both will pass on some tips.

Really? I never knew he was here. Does he double up as the physio

The quality of the player doesn't make the coach. That isn't what I was insinuating.

I was stating that the coach makes the player. Yes, he played in the top league(s), but he was never great.

So why do you think Whelan is a poor coach then?

Must admit it's the first I'd heard about this, apparently he turned down Forest lol

http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/sport/leeds-united/latest-whites-news/leeds_united_ex_whites_ace_whelan_targets_masters_glory_interview_1_3544562/

The coach makes the player then? Not sure I agree but ok.

So he's not a good coach? Do you know this? Or basing it on his playing career? Can't see how you don't contradict yourself.

Well having never been coached by him, I couldn't possibly comment; I don't recall saying he is a poor coach. He might be the next Alf Ramsey for all I know, though I think Alf Stewart is more apt.

All I was saying is that he hardly hit orbital levels while playing so I can't really see what he can pass on as a player.

Of any note, he only really played for Coventry. He was hardly prolific: slightly worse than 1 goal in every 4 games isn't really awe-inspiring form.

A good coach can make a good player better, a bad coach can make a good player worse.

You dont have to have been a good player to be a great coach (Lawrie McMenemy/Arsene Wenger) and not all great players turn out to be good coaches (Bryan Robson/Bobby Moore)

"I don't recall saying he is a poor coach."

You've insinuated as much in every post in this thread. His playing career is largely irrelevant. There have been much worse players than Whelan who have gone on to be successful coaches.

Also, since when did spending the majority of your career in the premier league make you a bad player?

Jose Mourinho wasn't even a player at all... and also Whelan has only been involved for a pretty short time (started this year!) so you can't really hold him responsible for the quality of our young forwards!

So..... Alex Ferguson was a great player? Jose Mourinho? Steve Mclaren? The list could be endless!

What a crap article!

I'm not holding him responsible yet, as we've not really had a breakthrough of younger forwards but I'm saying he wouldn't be the first name I'd choose for that position.

I'd like to think somebody like Dean Sturridge or Marco Gabbiadini could do a better job.

To be fair TBR, I didnt mean to be abusive, as I generally do like your posts and find them quite amusing!

But I dont really see the angle that your coming from on this one.

On the flip side, we could say that Gary Crosby, Metgod all had decent football careers, but does that make them good coaches?

No, I'm all for you stating your opinion, just as I'm allowed to state mine. It's what we fought Herr Adolf for.

I'm just sorry that I don't believe Noel Whelan; somebody who played 8 games for us, to be the best candidate for that position.

As for other names, (Ferguson, Mourinho et al.) they have coaches employed beneath them. They are not solely responsible for the player's growth.

I would've thought having never been coached by any coach you wouldn't really be able to comment.

"All I was saying is that he hardly hit orbital levels while playing so I can't really see what he can pass on as a player." is a ridiculous statement. Coaching isn't about passing on tips such as 'do this' and 'do that'.

Chelsea have a 24 yr old fitness coach. A great number of the professional coaches in this country were never professional players.

No link between quality of player and quality of coach. Essentially a coach is a teacher. Nick Faldo's golf coach was an awful golfer yet he helped Nick get to great heights.

I would've thought having never been coached by any coach you wouldn't really be able to comment.
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So by that logic, don't ever comment about anything ever again, ever? Don't be absurd! We haven't played professional football but we come on this forum to discuss it. I haven't eaten a kangaroo testis, but that doesn't mean I have to stay impartial to the idea of it.

Oh, and I have been coached. I play hockey and have been on the cusp of playing at National League standard. That may not mean anything to you, but it's pretty important to me.


Chelsea have a 24 yr old fitness coach. A great number of the professional coaches in this country were never professional players.
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I'm pretty sure this is what I was trying to say. He isn't employed because of his footballing ability. His capacity is to improve the players' fitness levels. I'm currently studying for a Degree in Sport Science, which is something similar to what he will have done.

Noel Whelan on the other hand didn't study for a Degree. He was lucky enough to play professional football and is now employed because of his "footballing ability".

TBR - you're showing your lack of knowledge about the coaching qualifiactions here.

I would imagine that, at the very least, Whelan will have done his level 3 (UEFA B) coaching course.

He may even have his UEFA A qualification as, if memory serves me right, he was quite an intelligent player.

You dont simply become a coach becuase you used to play - you have to work for it as well. I imagine when a club employs a coach, they will want to see him in action in a training session first (if they dont already know how he coaches).

Why are you jumping to such ridiculous conclusions that I lack knowledge in the area.

I'm well aware you have to pass your UEFA Pro Licences to a reasonable level to even be considered by football clubs in a coaching capacity.

On the other hand, anybody with enough financial clout, a reasonable brain and some spare time can undertake the seminars and lectures to pass the qualifications.

After reading, it does appear as though I implied he was employed just because he is a former footballer. However, this was not the intention. I was purely trying to differentiate between a 25-year-old fitness coach who has been trained to improve things like cardiovascular capacity, and Noel Whelan, a former footballer, employed to improve players because he is a former player.

TBR -

If you read your original post, it comes across as:

1 Noel Whelan is responsible for the lack of Acadamy Talent

2 Noel Whelan was a crap footballer, so he will be no good at coaching.


As I said before, I do like your posts, and I find you quite amusing and funny. However, You have totally lost me on this one....

Football and Sport in general are an industry, so any player who as played at any level will have some kind of knowledge of the game. Noel Whelan is no different. If he has good traits, knowledge correct qualifications, discipline, I am sure that he will be a good coach.

I dont ever remember the name Terry Westley as being a recognised footballer, however, I think that he was responsible for quite a few players that came through the ranks.

I can see how your original comment was a little 'tongue in cheek', but I applaud you for sticking with your original comments!

Tree - no-ones jumping to copnclusions - we have just been reading what you wrote.

"He was lucky enough to play professional football and is now employed because of his "footballing ability"."

No-one is denying that it helps to get a job in coaching if your name is known from your playing days. But the bottom line is that you have to be qualified and will also have to prove you can do the job in due course.

You might like to know that the pass rate fro the FA coaching courses is:

Level1 - 97% of people pass
Level2 - 40% of people pass (this is as far as I have reached!)
Level3/UEFA B - 33% of people pass
UEFA A - sub 25% pass

So, from 100 starters, only 3 will get all the qualifiactions. So, your statement that "anybody with enough financial clout, a reasonable brain and some spare time can undertake the seminars and lectures to pass the qualifications" is, frankly, tosh!

Does anyone know what coaching qualifications Nigel Clough and his staff have.
I've had a look on the Pro Licence list and NC is not on it. Nor is Garner, Crosby, Taylor etc.

AJ, I think you have made a terrible mistake, and been looking on a site that is connected to football

They're all right good on Football Manager.

1) I didn't say those factors would get you the qualifications, I said they would help you in attending the seminars and lectures required to pass the qualifications. You can't pay to pass the examinations. Please read what I type if you insist in retorting in such an abrupt manner.

2) Since when has 25% (one quarter) of 100% been 3? Please provide more accurate statistics if using them as a means of trying to prove a point.

TBR, you have misunderstood the percentages.

Not everyone does every course. I believe the stats given were pass percentages. Without knowing how many people started, it would be impossible to say how many passed.

TBR:

97% of 100 = 97
40% of 97 = 38.8
33% of 38.8 = 12.8
25% of 12.8 = 3.2

Hence, roughly 3 people will out of every 100 will pass everything