It's great to see Fletcher back, United have missed him in midfield.
I think your slightly overpraising Fletch there to be honest mate.
while its good to see him back, lets not get overly sentimental.
Fletcher isnt a player who isnt going to rip up any trees, he's a decent player to have in your squad.
there were quite a few times where he was sloppy last night, which is understandable given his time off.
the thing for me is over his career at united, he's had one very good season, and then patches of form throughout, but thats it.
if he couldnt perform well on a regular basis before his illness, why would things be different now.
I know its pretty optomistic and a long shot, but if Fletch can somehow come close to his 08-09-10 performances, i will not be worried abt our midfield at all and we will be the favourites for the title.
comment by duncanedwards_legend (U11713)
posted 59 seconds ago
I think your slightly overpraising Fletch there to be honest mate.
while its good to see him back, lets not get overly sentimental.
Fletcher isnt a player who isnt going to rip up any trees, he's a decent player to have in your squad.
there were quite a few times where he was sloppy last night, which is understandable given his time off.
the thing for me is over his career at united, he's had one very good season, and then patches of form throughout, but thats it.
if he couldnt perform well on a regular basis before his illness, why would things be different now.
------------------
That;s exactly what i meant when i said that he has done it the hard way.
He is not as gifted as Scholey/Carrick, even Ando/Clevz but what he has is a steely determination not too different from the legend Keano.
In 08-09 and 09-10 seasons, he was the first name on the teamsheet.
I know i may come across as a fanboy but i m just delighted for the lad.
As for the "ripping trees" remark, we have so much quality in our attack/forward line that all we need is a decent midfield which does its job well. We do not need consistent creativity/dynamism from our midfield to make sure that forwards have support to score goals.
We have already scored the most goals so far this season, all we need is a professional who does his job with minimum fuss. With him accompanying Carrick, i will feel much much more confident facing the likes of City than without him.
Fletcher isn't that good, remember who we played last.night
comment by duncanedwards_legend (U11713)
posted 8 minutes ago
I think your slightly overpraising Fletch there to be honest mate.
...........
Bit of an understatement.
Fletch was ok last night, nothing more.
He gave the ball away three times in five minutes in the second half, the last resulting in De Gea making a superb save.
One of Fletch's problems, and it always has been, is he turns to the danger side when receiving the ball. The complete opposite of Scholes.
His first touch always is to look for a pass backwards as well.
I rewatched the second half, late last night and just focused on Fletch, Ando and Cleverley.
There is a big difference in technical ability between Ando and the other two. Plain as daylight really. Ando's first touch is away from danger, and the first thing he looks to do is move the ball forwards.
I fear that Fletch will get more game time than Anderson, and to me, the team will be worse off for it.
There is a big difference in technical ability between Ando and the other two. Plain as daylight really. Ando's first touch is away from danger, and the first thing he looks to do is move the ball forwards.
I fear that Fletch will get more game time than Anderson, and to me, the team will be worse off for it.
-------------
i agree there VC.
there was a moment towards the end of the game where rio hoofed the ball forward, and anderson met the ball on the top of his chest knocking it over the incoming defenders head, before bringing the ball down, barging another defender out for the way with his ass, and keeping possession.
i thought to myself, that is what we miss.
none of our other midfielders have that ability.
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by duncanedwards_legend (U11713)
posted 8 minutes ago
I think your slightly overpraising Fletch there to be honest mate.
...........
Bit of an understatement.
Fletch was ok last night, nothing more.
He gave the ball away three times in five minutes in the second half, the last resulting in De Gea making a superb save.
One of Fletch's problems, and it always has been, is he turns to the danger side when receiving the ball. The complete opposite of Scholes.
His first touch always is to look for a pass backwards as well.
I rewatched the second half, late last night and just focused on Fletch, Ando and Cleverley.
There is a big difference in technical ability between Ando and the other two. Plain as daylight really. Ando's first touch is away from danger, and the first thing he looks to do is move the ball forwards.
I fear that Fletch will get more game time than Anderson, and to me, the team will be worse off for it.
---------------
I like Ando, and as i said in my prev comment that Ando has more talent than Fletch. Infact as far as the raw attributes are concerned maybe he is better than them all but his history with injuries/fitness issues/loss of form/off-field life really makes me think that we can't rely on him too much.
As for the loose passes,, as i said he his deffo lacking match fitness. Those stray passes came in the second half which is pretty normal for a guy lacking match fitness.
He is not the most talented but he does tick a lot of the boxes.
Against Spurs in the first half we were lacking:
Drive
Pressing
Tackling
Winning 50-50's
Tracking runners
Covering the full backs
Guess what Fletch did all of the above alongwith Clevz and Ando yesterday and did it very well in the first half.
Also he provides us height when defending/attacking set pieces which we have not been doing very well lately.
Good point there duncan
I have always said that in MF you need someone who can do that, get the ball in a tight spot and come away with it.
This is a skill I see in kagawa in nani even in ashley young at times but not many of the others.
and anderson met the ball on the top of his chest knocking it over the incoming defenders head, before bringing the ball down, barging another defender out for the way with his ass, and keeping possession.
---
This looked more like luck than judgement - he tried to do this in the newcastle game and it bounced out for a throw in.
Fletchers passing for the first 20 minutes was Carrick esque - slid passes into players between the lines of the defence and the midfield
Dunc
I really was not that impressed with Cleverley, to be honest.
Yes he kept the ball moving around nicely, but very rarely was it forwards.
I also thought Ando had a good claim for a penalty, late on, but we did not see any repalys of it on Fox. Not sure if they did in the UK.
But unlike Nani a few weeks ago, he got up and broke up play on Cluj's next attack.
valencia smile - With all due respect mate you cannot point to ando's fitness record etc and then praise fletch
Fletch was a player who was riddled with injuries for the early part of his career. SAF was the only one keeping faith with him. Most fans wanted him gone
Very similar to ando tbh.
This looked more like luck than judgement
..............
Nothing lucky about it what so ever.
comment by GregUnited - filtering is for the weak! (U1192)
posted 21 minutes ago
Fletcher isn't that good, remember who we played last.night
------------
Bayern Munich lost 3-1 last night.
Remember who they were playing.....
The away legs in CL are always difficult.
Most of the easter european players are technically very skillfull(better than the English) however they do lack the cutting edge most of the times. But at home with the crowd behind them they are always dangerous.
VC - I am yet to be convinced with clev tbh. decent enough but wouldnt be suprised if he made a career at a mid table team.
comment by RedReason (U5677)
posted 1 minute ago
valencia smile - With all due respect mate you cannot point to ando's fitness record etc and then praise fletch
Fletch was a player who was riddled with injuries for the early part of his career. SAF was the only one keeping faith with him. Most fans wanted him gone
Very similar to ando tbh.
------------------------------
I know that.
But i also remember 2-3 seasons when he was the probably the fittest person in the team, a big game player and first name on the team sheet.
When i first saw Ando i though this guy is genuine world class quality. He has everything in his locker.
But somehow his development has stalled in the last 2 years. However i still have a lot of faith in him but he does need to improve his fitness. He is generally as tired as Scholsey after 60-70min mark and he is just 23-24(approx)...
I don't know anyone who doubts Anderson's ability but plenty rightfully doubt he'll be able to stay fit over the course of a season.
I genuinely hope he does stay fit and take the chance he was given when Scholes retired last year but I remember plenty of people on here back in June scoffing at the idea of us not signing a CM and relying on Anderson to stay fit over an entire season.
Now we're pinning our hopes on him!
He has the talent but like some people have an awful feeling Giggs will start most games these days I have a horrible feeling Anderson will get our hopes up again and dash them with a niggling injury that keeps him out for months.
Valencia smile
I don't rate bayern munich either.
It doesn't matter home or away, cluj were awful, our players had enough time for a pick nick
Dunc
I really was not that impressed with Cleverley, to be honest.
Yes he kept the ball moving around nicely, but very rarely was it forwards.
I also thought Ando had a good claim for a penalty, late on, but we did not see any repalys of it on Fox. Not sure if they did in the UK.
But unlike Nani a few weeks ago, he got up and broke up play on Cluj's next attack.
-------------
i dunno, i thought cleverly played quite well.
clevs is a strange one for me, he reminds me of carrick in terms of not standing out, but being consistant.
he linked well with rooney at times, but spent a lot of time on the left due to a lack of width which i dont think helped him.
RR
I think a very large percentage of our fans got carried away by that second half performance in the Community shield.
I have not seen him play that well since then.
However i still have a lot of faith in him but he does need to improve his fitness. He is generally as tired as Scholsey after 60-70min mark and he is just 23-24(approx)...
------------
but that comes with games mate.
he was blowing out of his ass at the end of the newcastle game, but last night looked a lot fitter towards the end.
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 1 second ago
RR
I think a very large percentage of our fans got carried away by that second half performance in the Community shield.
I have not seen him play that well since then.
-----------------------
I think if we started with Welbz instead of Chico yesterday we would have seen a lot more of Clevz yesterday.
I love Chico but he does need to work harder at his all round game. On the other hand Welbz and Clevz link up play is exquisite. Also there were a lot of moves which he started but as soon as the ball reached Chico it broke which leads people to think he did not do enough.
Either of Welbz or Kag instead of Chico last night would have brought a more swift performance from our front 5.
VC - gonna sound stupid if people havent seen him live but I actually believe welbeck has the attributes to play in the clev position and has more energy than clev
I know most see him as future super striker, I am not convinced of that yet either. I think he will score amazing goals but not regularly enough. Outside the box he is (IMO) more of a terrier than roo and tevez and is quite skillfull at taking on players and sweet 1 2's
comment by duncanedwards_legend (U11713)
posted 1 minute ago
However i still have a lot of faith in him but he does need to improve his fitness. He is generally as tired as Scholsey after 60-70min mark and he is just 23-24(approx)...
------------
but that comes with games mate.
he was blowing out of his ass at the end of the newcastle game, but last night looked a lot fitter towards the end.
-------------------------------
I don't want to make this a Fletch vs Ando at all.
I love them both and according to me our midfield against tough opposition away from home would include both alongside Carrick.
Sign in if you want to comment
Fletch...Welcome home son!!!
Page 1 of 2
posted on 3/10/12
It's great to see Fletcher back, United have missed him in midfield.
posted on 3/10/12
I think your slightly overpraising Fletch there to be honest mate.
while its good to see him back, lets not get overly sentimental.
Fletcher isnt a player who isnt going to rip up any trees, he's a decent player to have in your squad.
there were quite a few times where he was sloppy last night, which is understandable given his time off.
the thing for me is over his career at united, he's had one very good season, and then patches of form throughout, but thats it.
if he couldnt perform well on a regular basis before his illness, why would things be different now.
posted on 3/10/12
I know its pretty optomistic and a long shot, but if Fletch can somehow come close to his 08-09-10 performances, i will not be worried abt our midfield at all and we will be the favourites for the title.
posted on 3/10/12
comment by duncanedwards_legend (U11713)
posted 59 seconds ago
I think your slightly overpraising Fletch there to be honest mate.
while its good to see him back, lets not get overly sentimental.
Fletcher isnt a player who isnt going to rip up any trees, he's a decent player to have in your squad.
there were quite a few times where he was sloppy last night, which is understandable given his time off.
the thing for me is over his career at united, he's had one very good season, and then patches of form throughout, but thats it.
if he couldnt perform well on a regular basis before his illness, why would things be different now.
------------------
That;s exactly what i meant when i said that he has done it the hard way.
He is not as gifted as Scholey/Carrick, even Ando/Clevz but what he has is a steely determination not too different from the legend Keano.
In 08-09 and 09-10 seasons, he was the first name on the teamsheet.
I know i may come across as a fanboy but i m just delighted for the lad.
As for the "ripping trees" remark, we have so much quality in our attack/forward line that all we need is a decent midfield which does its job well. We do not need consistent creativity/dynamism from our midfield to make sure that forwards have support to score goals.
We have already scored the most goals so far this season, all we need is a professional who does his job with minimum fuss. With him accompanying Carrick, i will feel much much more confident facing the likes of City than without him.
posted on 3/10/12
Fletcher isn't that good, remember who we played last.night
posted on 3/10/12
comment by duncanedwards_legend (U11713)
posted 8 minutes ago
I think your slightly overpraising Fletch there to be honest mate.
...........
Bit of an understatement.
Fletch was ok last night, nothing more.
He gave the ball away three times in five minutes in the second half, the last resulting in De Gea making a superb save.
One of Fletch's problems, and it always has been, is he turns to the danger side when receiving the ball. The complete opposite of Scholes.
His first touch always is to look for a pass backwards as well.
I rewatched the second half, late last night and just focused on Fletch, Ando and Cleverley.
There is a big difference in technical ability between Ando and the other two. Plain as daylight really. Ando's first touch is away from danger, and the first thing he looks to do is move the ball forwards.
I fear that Fletch will get more game time than Anderson, and to me, the team will be worse off for it.
posted on 3/10/12
There is a big difference in technical ability between Ando and the other two. Plain as daylight really. Ando's first touch is away from danger, and the first thing he looks to do is move the ball forwards.
I fear that Fletch will get more game time than Anderson, and to me, the team will be worse off for it.
-------------
i agree there VC.
there was a moment towards the end of the game where rio hoofed the ball forward, and anderson met the ball on the top of his chest knocking it over the incoming defenders head, before bringing the ball down, barging another defender out for the way with his ass, and keeping possession.
i thought to myself, that is what we miss.
none of our other midfielders have that ability.
posted on 3/10/12
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by duncanedwards_legend (U11713)
posted 8 minutes ago
I think your slightly overpraising Fletch there to be honest mate.
...........
Bit of an understatement.
Fletch was ok last night, nothing more.
He gave the ball away three times in five minutes in the second half, the last resulting in De Gea making a superb save.
One of Fletch's problems, and it always has been, is he turns to the danger side when receiving the ball. The complete opposite of Scholes.
His first touch always is to look for a pass backwards as well.
I rewatched the second half, late last night and just focused on Fletch, Ando and Cleverley.
There is a big difference in technical ability between Ando and the other two. Plain as daylight really. Ando's first touch is away from danger, and the first thing he looks to do is move the ball forwards.
I fear that Fletch will get more game time than Anderson, and to me, the team will be worse off for it.
---------------
I like Ando, and as i said in my prev comment that Ando has more talent than Fletch. Infact as far as the raw attributes are concerned maybe he is better than them all but his history with injuries/fitness issues/loss of form/off-field life really makes me think that we can't rely on him too much.
As for the loose passes,, as i said he his deffo lacking match fitness. Those stray passes came in the second half which is pretty normal for a guy lacking match fitness.
He is not the most talented but he does tick a lot of the boxes.
Against Spurs in the first half we were lacking:
Drive
Pressing
Tackling
Winning 50-50's
Tracking runners
Covering the full backs
Guess what Fletch did all of the above alongwith Clevz and Ando yesterday and did it very well in the first half.
Also he provides us height when defending/attacking set pieces which we have not been doing very well lately.
posted on 3/10/12
Good point there duncan
I have always said that in MF you need someone who can do that, get the ball in a tight spot and come away with it.
This is a skill I see in kagawa in nani even in ashley young at times but not many of the others.
posted on 3/10/12
and anderson met the ball on the top of his chest knocking it over the incoming defenders head, before bringing the ball down, barging another defender out for the way with his ass, and keeping possession.
---
This looked more like luck than judgement - he tried to do this in the newcastle game and it bounced out for a throw in.
Fletchers passing for the first 20 minutes was Carrick esque - slid passes into players between the lines of the defence and the midfield
posted on 3/10/12
Dunc
I really was not that impressed with Cleverley, to be honest.
Yes he kept the ball moving around nicely, but very rarely was it forwards.
I also thought Ando had a good claim for a penalty, late on, but we did not see any repalys of it on Fox. Not sure if they did in the UK.
But unlike Nani a few weeks ago, he got up and broke up play on Cluj's next attack.
posted on 3/10/12
valencia smile - With all due respect mate you cannot point to ando's fitness record etc and then praise fletch
Fletch was a player who was riddled with injuries for the early part of his career. SAF was the only one keeping faith with him. Most fans wanted him gone
Very similar to ando tbh.
posted on 3/10/12
This looked more like luck than judgement
..............
Nothing lucky about it what so ever.
posted on 3/10/12
comment by GregUnited - filtering is for the weak! (U1192)
posted 21 minutes ago
Fletcher isn't that good, remember who we played last.night
------------
Bayern Munich lost 3-1 last night.
Remember who they were playing.....
The away legs in CL are always difficult.
Most of the easter european players are technically very skillfull(better than the English) however they do lack the cutting edge most of the times. But at home with the crowd behind them they are always dangerous.
posted on 3/10/12
VC - I am yet to be convinced with clev tbh. decent enough but wouldnt be suprised if he made a career at a mid table team.
posted on 3/10/12
comment by RedReason (U5677)
posted 1 minute ago
valencia smile - With all due respect mate you cannot point to ando's fitness record etc and then praise fletch
Fletch was a player who was riddled with injuries for the early part of his career. SAF was the only one keeping faith with him. Most fans wanted him gone
Very similar to ando tbh.
------------------------------
I know that.
But i also remember 2-3 seasons when he was the probably the fittest person in the team, a big game player and first name on the team sheet.
When i first saw Ando i though this guy is genuine world class quality. He has everything in his locker.
But somehow his development has stalled in the last 2 years. However i still have a lot of faith in him but he does need to improve his fitness. He is generally as tired as Scholsey after 60-70min mark and he is just 23-24(approx)...
posted on 3/10/12
I don't know anyone who doubts Anderson's ability but plenty rightfully doubt he'll be able to stay fit over the course of a season.
I genuinely hope he does stay fit and take the chance he was given when Scholes retired last year but I remember plenty of people on here back in June scoffing at the idea of us not signing a CM and relying on Anderson to stay fit over an entire season.
Now we're pinning our hopes on him!
He has the talent but like some people have an awful feeling Giggs will start most games these days I have a horrible feeling Anderson will get our hopes up again and dash them with a niggling injury that keeps him out for months.
posted on 3/10/12
Valencia smile
I don't rate bayern munich either.
It doesn't matter home or away, cluj were awful, our players had enough time for a pick nick
posted on 3/10/12
Dunc
I really was not that impressed with Cleverley, to be honest.
Yes he kept the ball moving around nicely, but very rarely was it forwards.
I also thought Ando had a good claim for a penalty, late on, but we did not see any repalys of it on Fox. Not sure if they did in the UK.
But unlike Nani a few weeks ago, he got up and broke up play on Cluj's next attack.
-------------
i dunno, i thought cleverly played quite well.
clevs is a strange one for me, he reminds me of carrick in terms of not standing out, but being consistant.
he linked well with rooney at times, but spent a lot of time on the left due to a lack of width which i dont think helped him.
posted on 3/10/12
RR
I think a very large percentage of our fans got carried away by that second half performance in the Community shield.
I have not seen him play that well since then.
posted on 3/10/12
Picnic ....
posted on 3/10/12
However i still have a lot of faith in him but he does need to improve his fitness. He is generally as tired as Scholsey after 60-70min mark and he is just 23-24(approx)...
------------
but that comes with games mate.
he was blowing out of his ass at the end of the newcastle game, but last night looked a lot fitter towards the end.
posted on 3/10/12
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 1 second ago
RR
I think a very large percentage of our fans got carried away by that second half performance in the Community shield.
I have not seen him play that well since then.
-----------------------
I think if we started with Welbz instead of Chico yesterday we would have seen a lot more of Clevz yesterday.
I love Chico but he does need to work harder at his all round game. On the other hand Welbz and Clevz link up play is exquisite. Also there were a lot of moves which he started but as soon as the ball reached Chico it broke which leads people to think he did not do enough.
Either of Welbz or Kag instead of Chico last night would have brought a more swift performance from our front 5.
posted on 3/10/12
VC - gonna sound stupid if people havent seen him live but I actually believe welbeck has the attributes to play in the clev position and has more energy than clev
I know most see him as future super striker, I am not convinced of that yet either. I think he will score amazing goals but not regularly enough. Outside the box he is (IMO) more of a terrier than roo and tevez and is quite skillfull at taking on players and sweet 1 2's
posted on 3/10/12
comment by duncanedwards_legend (U11713)
posted 1 minute ago
However i still have a lot of faith in him but he does need to improve his fitness. He is generally as tired as Scholsey after 60-70min mark and he is just 23-24(approx)...
------------
but that comes with games mate.
he was blowing out of his ass at the end of the newcastle game, but last night looked a lot fitter towards the end.
-------------------------------
I don't want to make this a Fletch vs Ando at all.
I love them both and according to me our midfield against tough opposition away from home would include both alongside Carrick.
Page 1 of 2