love you too

fair enough. it's no coincidence however that the season in which we did reach the semi finals, 96-97, was also the first season after the three-foreigner rule was abolished. in reality, that was our first real attempt at the champions league.

^ Ditto.

Can't see where I went wrong in the dates Ripleys, '94 referring to the year the final was played (like the one we won in '99)?

If you mean we struggled in our first couple of goes at it you're right though.

Never said you did go wrong with the dates PNM.

Cool mate. Oversensitive me....

(or slippery dishonest and unpleasant if you prefer Loz )

it's no coincidence however that the season in which we did reach the semi finals, 96-97, was also the first season after the three-foreigner rule was abolished

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That season against Porto and Dortmund you never fielded more than 4 foreigners in your team. Are you saying that playing 1 extra foreigner made the difference between a good CL campaign and the previous years which were to all intents poor?

Sorry, I don't buy that at all.

I thought Fergie ascended to power in 1986 but it took him until 1999 to win the CL. My rudimentry maths skills told me that was 13 years but unfortunaetly it seems I'm wrong. I'll book a course to brush up on my numeracy skills.

You cant win it if you aint in it.

Seeing as English clubs were banned until 1990-91 it seems a little churlish to count those years. He won the first European trophy he took the club in to as well.

Mind you, regardless of how long it took him to win it I'm sure he'll look back fondly on the two he's won to go with Sir Matt's.

Sometimes Boris i think you can appear flippant

Sorry Boris, but the fact that English clubs were banned until 1990-91 has to be taken into account.

As does the changes in CL qualification that have happened since then. The only times Ferguson should be judged in regards to the CL are the times when United were actually in the competition.

After all, I wouldn't be critical of Mancini because he failed to win (or just do well in) the Champions League in 2010-11.

It's a non argument anyway - by his own admission he feels he's underperformed in Europe with United.

that's not strictly true. the main reason why english clubs were particularity hindered by the 'three foreigner players rule' was that england, northern ireland, wales and scotland were all treated as separate countries by uefa.

therefore had those rules still been in place in 96-97, six of our starting line up against porto in the quarter final first leg would have been regarded as 'foreign', including one of the goalscorers that evening - ryan giggs.

Regardless of the ban, United wouldn't have even qualified under the rules that were in place at that time so that's academic. Putting that aside it took him 6 attempts before he cracked it and that was with a squad that he had built himself with a more or less open chequebook at the time.

that's not strictly true. the main reason why english clubs were particularity hindered by the 'three foreigner players rule' was that england, northern ireland, wales and scotland were all treated as separate countries by uefa.

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That's complete and utter bull ole.

Just picking a game out at complete random, in 1992-93, long before the "3 foreigner rule" came in, United played Leeds at home

In their line up that day were

Schmeichel (Denmark)
Blackmore (Wales)
Irwin (Eire)
Ferguson (Scotland)
Kanchelskis (Russia)
McClair (Scotland)
Hughes (Wales)
Giggs (Wales)

By all means, explain how that is possible by your own rationale.

boris he spent £4m net from 1986 to 1998. If that is an open chequebook then I don't know what is. Heck man city chelsea leeds newcstle arsenal etc where spending multiple times as much as us but never won it in the 90's.

fergies fledgings were most of the squad.

ripley he is on about europe. How dumb can you get.

ripley he is on about europe. How dumb can you get.

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Picking a game out a complete random, in 1992-93 when United played Torpedo Moscow in the UEFA cup, their line up included:

Irwin (Eire)
Blackmore (Welsh)
Kanchelskis (Russian)
McClair (Scottish)
Hughes (Welsh)

Before you come here and insult me, actually learn what it is you are engaging in discussion with.

So you tell me how 4 years before the 3 foreigner rule was introduced, United fielded a team in a European game that according to Ole, contained 5 foreigners.

Between '92 and '99, United bought players for a combined fee of over £60m. Just because people love adding the word 'net' to bring the figure down doesn't mean you spent any less.

perhaps there were some loopholes, but some brief internet research proves that there were, at the very least, 'restrictions' placed on the number of scottish, welsh and irish players who could be selected by english clubs while the ruling was in place;

http://www.europeancuphistory.com/euro93.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/relief-at-end-of-foreigner-rule-1526032.html

united were also a fully self sufficient club between those years, generating colossal profits. hope this helps.

perhaps there were some loopholes

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Brilliant. That's sarcasm by the way.

"some brief internet research proves that they were...restrictions placed..."

Hmm, not quite what you said earlier is it ole?

And I am the one who is getting insulted because I question the comments that you make? (Yes I know ole, you didn't insult me - that comment wasn't directed at you)

I would however suggest to the likes of you and Hafi that you actually go away and comprehensively learn about this particular subject before making ridiculous claims in an online discussion.

Some "loopholes" indeed. What loopholes exactly?

There were no "loopholes" ole. That is just your poor attempt at a retort because you do not have the confidence to say that you simply got it wrong. Or as other people would put it - spin.

it's no such thing. all i've done is provide links which actually proved my earlier comment to be correct. if you read it again, you'll find that all i did was (again, correctly) point out that england, northern ireland, wales and scotland were all treated as separate countries by uefa, something which is backed up by two separate websites. i think you need to clam down.

And all I've done is provide stats which prove your understanding of the rule incorrect.

We are talking about the 3-foreigner rule ole. That is, no more than 3 foreigners could play in a team before 1995-96 in European competition. You stated that Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland were separate countries by UEFA, and in stating this were quite clearly stating that players from those nationalities were therefore regarded as foreign if they played for an English team (which United are).

I then, in reply, pointed out that long before the 3 foreigner rule came into play, United had fielded more than 3 players from countries other than England. You responded by saying this was a loophole.

You need to do a bit more research, and actually learn more about what you claim to know about what you are talking about. Because quite frankly you haven't a clue. Facts have proven that.

Your problem. Have some humility and admit it, or just continue to make a fool of yourself. Your choice.

Me calming down or not (despite your attempt to deflect (yet again) as though your misunderstanding is somehow my fault), has nothing to do with it.

why, i cannot imagine, but i have done a bit more research into this. from what i now understand, the original ruling was 'four foreigners', before it was changed to to three plus two 'assimilated' players a couple of years later. (in a way this is in fact a loophole). this meant that giggs, mcclair and possibly irwin fell under the category of 'assimilated'. so, i'll happily admit to being wrong about giggs being ineligible for the porto game in 96-97.

furthermore, players signed before 1988 were exempt for the first season - this would answer your earlier query about why five 'foreign players' took the field for united against torpedo moscow in 92-93, and again, could also be deemed as a 'loophole'.

i could again choose to be petty and point out that you incorrectly claimed in one of your comments that 92-93 was "four years before the three foreigner rule was introduced" when in actual fact it was that season when it was introduced, but unlike you i'm not here to point score.