He has also relegated two clubs and this time he won't have Clarke and Ten Cate watching his back.
He has also relegated two clubs and this time he won't have Clarke and Ten Cate watching his back.
-------------------------------
The Portsmouth relegation was pretty much inevitable, and was caused by circumstances well out of Grant's control. West Ham was a team that was pretty much asking for relegation as well, although Grant has to take a good share of the responsibility for that situation.
Still, his successes outweigh the debacles in which he was involved. The current situation at Chelsea has much more in common with Grant's previous stint at Chelsea than it does with his tenures at Portsmouth or West Ham - some managers are more suited to some tasks than others, and I think Grant is more suited to, let's say, salvaging a campaign by a team rife with talent and resources, like Chelsea, than saving relegation-threatened teams (guys like Allardyce and Hodgson specialize in that).
And don't worry - he's got Zenden. It would be great if he could start slowly transitioning Lamps into a coaching role, as Lampard has a sharp mind, and incomparable work ethic that would be well suited to management.
Drog's
As far as i see appointing Avram will be the more complicated way of saying Steve Holland is incharge until May.
It's not the same as 07/08, that team could virtually manage itself and arguably did, we now have either players past their peak or young players with huge potential who need good coaching, the only player you could argue is even close to his peak right now is Mata back then near enough the whole squad were.
If their was no such thing as injury time we would have beaten our 04/05 title and i still maintain to this day if Mourinho stayed we would have hit 100 points and a treble at the very least and before anyone mentions the poor start Jose made yes he did but United were even worse at the start.
I was one of the few fans who defended Grant against absurd allegations of not 'looking the part'. I agree (with OP) Avram exceeded his brief. I laughed (at the fellow fans) who slated him when we lost and credited wins to Clarke and team. Clarke and team never took the blame when we lost. Some fans (see earlier posts) even wanted us to lose as they do under Benitez, I hesitate to call these muppets "fans".
BUT... the problem now is team attitude. We need someone with communication skills to reintroduce that feeling of confidence that comes with winning . matches. We need a tough manager in the style of Hiddink or even Ancellotti but clearly not necessarily these two.I dont know about the relationship of terms of respect for team to Grant or to Benitez. I think we have to give Benitez 10 games before commenting.
If somehow Shaktar do the favour and we turn things around in Europe the rest may follow. The Gambit that the team will over perform for a new manager has simply not worked out. Now to plan B.
"As far as i see appointing Avram will be the more complicated way of saying Steve Holland is incharge until May"
How would that arrangement pan out? Would Grant be nominally in charge, with SH making decisions behind the scenes, or vice versa? Would Rafa be retained on the payroll, with his services suspended in an attempt to force him to quit? Seems like an unnecessarily complicated managerial merry-go-round, but I wouldn't expect anything less.
"It's not the same as 07/08, that team could virtually manage itself and arguably did, we now have either players past their peak or young players with huge potential who need good coaching, the only player you could argue is even close to his peak right now is Mata back then near enough the whole squad were."
I guess that plays into the rationale for arguing that our past-prime and more experienced players should get involved in the management/coaching aspect. Lamps, Terry, and Cech have all demonstrated leadership qualities, and could be of benefit in helping more experienced managers like Grant and Benitez.
"Mourinho stayed we would have hit 100 points and a treble at the very least and before anyone mentions the poor start Jose made..."
The problem wasn't just a poor start. There seemed to be a palpable sense of frustration and lack of ideas on Mourinho's part. He was constantly complaining about a lack of support, and the need to bring in new players. This had been going on for a while, and JM seemed stumped on what to do without reinforcements; there were times when it felt that he was pretty much indifferent as to whether he would remain at the club, or go somewhere else (at least that was my perception of things), and he often took opportunities to bash the players on a personal level, as well as to question their performances. The signs did not look promising, but that's just my opinion.
he problem now is team attitude. We need someone with communication skills to reintroduce that feeling of confidence that comes with winning . matches
-----------------------------------------------
Yep - poor morale seems to be one of our biggest problems, and a turnaround in results, or a manager who can instil confidence could definitely address that. But I think that this lack of morale has been brought on by on-field issues.
The new attacking mids played their hearts out earlier in the season. Sorry to beat this into the ground, but when they saw that all of the chances they were creating, and all their running and effort, is for nil (because a certain striker is not able to take advantage of these chances), they started to put in a lot less effort. Pretty soon, they will become indifferent. A new striker would be the ideal way to boost morale. Ship Torres to Anzhi to reassure the team that this episode is in the past. There will be no progress until he is either at another club, or is, at most, a super-sub (although he's not fit to lace Kalou's boots).
if Avram is brought in my faith in Roman and the board will be finished, it was difficult enough justifying RDMs dismissal.
What is going on at cfc is not Rafas fault.
i really can't see it, but recently things have happened at the club that no could see coming.
In rafa we trust
See, this is my issue with you. Not 7 days ago you were telling somebody to eff off and support some other club, for daring to speak out against Roman. I agree with the opinion you've just written, but you're very double standard!
flash fc off , please read every thing ive posted over the weekend before harrasing me, go and try to pick on someone your own size, get your pint out someone else.
This a forum its about developing thoughts and ideas.
Correct, but within 7 days you've went from telling somebody TO SUPPORT SOME OTHER CLUB for speaking out against Roman. To now doing so yourself.
If I were picking on you I would not have 5d most of your recent articles. I'm pointing out a double standardness within you. We all have it, some us accept it and clearly some of us don't!
Rafa out - Grant in!
You Chelsea fans really don't have a clue. Complain about sacking managers then give a manager 3 games before complaining that you want him out, a multi-trophy winning manager and replaced with a two time relegation manager. You couldn't make this stuff up.
flash double standards,i can understand how you could take that view if you havent read all my stuff recently posted, which is fair enough.
But to be honest in general i defend cfc & roman without fail, and the mornning we had our exchange was in fact a turnning point, you know my view of the media, i wouldnt trust what they say as far as i could throw them.
Also i found the attacks of Roman and the club at times to be very simplistic ,not expressing the debt we owe to Roman.
Hence my comments to you,for which i apologise any offence ment was simply part of the days emotional roller coaster.
Pre the FA CUP & C/L wins i had been very very unhappy with the way CFC was being run , in particular after the wilkins sacking.
But that night which enjoyed immensely in munich changed my concerns & i accepted that Roman was running the club his way , but his intentions were true.
But after this seasons debacles its clear something is wrong and Romans methods are not working.
And im almost back to where i was after the wilkins sacking.
Avram feckin Grant....
give me strength....please...just till January when we can buy someone who knows where the net is
alright sheriff you couldnt write whats going on at the moment!
My 'gast' is well 'flabbered'....embarrasing times at our club
" we dont know what were doing"
See, I'm a fan. A fellow fan. I agree with your siege mentality. But I think there is something wrong with How Roman runs Chelsea.
I can't deny our success, but could we have had more if he'd let Jose just do his job? Perhaps and then again perhaps not, as Jose does appear to get a little stale come his 3rd/4th year.
My biggest problem is none of us know what would please him. For an obviously intelligent man, at foot al level he does not seem to learn from his mistakes.
But as much as I'd defend chelsea against other clubs' fans, I don't feel it makes me less loyal to question the owner.
Just as it doesn't make me less British if at times I disagreed with the PM.
Jose would have moved on anyway....irrespective of whether Roman decided when or not..
Trouble is with Roman...there's no-one to compare him weith really..& £11b buys you pretty much whatever desires you have......currently he's just playing Football Manager 2012 - for real
Fair point Flash, were all fighting the same war ( i had hoped it was following the same club)
But at the moment it feels like war, in my mind Roman has been great ( and can continue)but his time as football manager hands on should come to an end.
Hes has taken us as far as he can ( in his present role)
He has invested 1 bln gbp and we have no credible management structure / club ethos ect act.
which isnt right and doesn't bode well going forward.
"Complain about sacking managers then give a manager 3 games before complaining that you want him out, a multi-trophy winning manager and replaced with a two time relegation manager. "
Yes, Benitez is clearly a great manager - that's why there were so many clubs, including Liverpool, scrambling for his services in recent times. He could have had his pick, but he chose us!
You don't seem to have comprehended what's going on. Chelsea fans were not calling for Benitez to be replaced by Grant; it's simply a rumor that's going around, and if RA makes that decision, that's fine. Many of us would be happy if it were true, as we never wanted Benitez in the first place. Grant is only being touted as a safety net, and would only take over if Benitez does not produce good results.
In your own special way, your complaint seems to be that getting rid of Rafa would contradict our desire for managerial stability. He is a caretaker manager, he hasn't been here long, and he's beyond irritating to most of the fanbase, so if the bad results continue, and he goes, it doesn't undermine our stability, as he never offered any.
If any of that was over your head, please ask somebody else to explain it, as I can't be bothered.
Grant was not in charge at Chelsea - he was just a physical entity that had little to no power.
He is a poor manger, just ask West ham Fans......
in rafa...
"He has invested 1 bln gbp and we have no credible management structure / club ethos ect act.
which isnt right and doesn't bode well going forward."
and yet.....If you asked any goo'ner or $pud or pool fan to swap the last ten years...what do you reckon though..?
i know mate, but the chaos we are in today is real we are lurching from one problem to the other,the gaffer needs a new approach.
yes Avram is a poor manager ,he was a caretaker whilst at cfc the side running on the players and Joses power.
Sign in if you want to comment
Grant was decent, and can improve the team
Page 1 of 5
posted on 3/12/12
He has also relegated two clubs and this time he won't have Clarke and Ten Cate watching his back.
posted on 3/12/12
He has also relegated two clubs and this time he won't have Clarke and Ten Cate watching his back.
-------------------------------
The Portsmouth relegation was pretty much inevitable, and was caused by circumstances well out of Grant's control. West Ham was a team that was pretty much asking for relegation as well, although Grant has to take a good share of the responsibility for that situation.
Still, his successes outweigh the debacles in which he was involved. The current situation at Chelsea has much more in common with Grant's previous stint at Chelsea than it does with his tenures at Portsmouth or West Ham - some managers are more suited to some tasks than others, and I think Grant is more suited to, let's say, salvaging a campaign by a team rife with talent and resources, like Chelsea, than saving relegation-threatened teams (guys like Allardyce and Hodgson specialize in that).
And don't worry - he's got Zenden. It would be great if he could start slowly transitioning Lamps into a coaching role, as Lampard has a sharp mind, and incomparable work ethic that would be well suited to management.
posted on 3/12/12
Drog's
As far as i see appointing Avram will be the more complicated way of saying Steve Holland is incharge until May.
It's not the same as 07/08, that team could virtually manage itself and arguably did, we now have either players past their peak or young players with huge potential who need good coaching, the only player you could argue is even close to his peak right now is Mata back then near enough the whole squad were.
If their was no such thing as injury time we would have beaten our 04/05 title and i still maintain to this day if Mourinho stayed we would have hit 100 points and a treble at the very least and before anyone mentions the poor start Jose made yes he did but United were even worse at the start.
posted on 3/12/12
04/05 total.
posted on 3/12/12
I was one of the few fans who defended Grant against absurd allegations of not 'looking the part'. I agree (with OP) Avram exceeded his brief. I laughed (at the fellow fans) who slated him when we lost and credited wins to Clarke and team. Clarke and team never took the blame when we lost. Some fans (see earlier posts) even wanted us to lose as they do under Benitez, I hesitate to call these muppets "fans".
BUT... the problem now is team attitude. We need someone with communication skills to reintroduce that feeling of confidence that comes with winning . matches. We need a tough manager in the style of Hiddink or even Ancellotti but clearly not necessarily these two.I dont know about the relationship of terms of respect for team to Grant or to Benitez. I think we have to give Benitez 10 games before commenting.
If somehow Shaktar do the favour and we turn things around in Europe the rest may follow. The Gambit that the team will over perform for a new manager has simply not worked out. Now to plan B.
posted on 3/12/12
"As far as i see appointing Avram will be the more complicated way of saying Steve Holland is incharge until May"
How would that arrangement pan out? Would Grant be nominally in charge, with SH making decisions behind the scenes, or vice versa? Would Rafa be retained on the payroll, with his services suspended in an attempt to force him to quit? Seems like an unnecessarily complicated managerial merry-go-round, but I wouldn't expect anything less.
"It's not the same as 07/08, that team could virtually manage itself and arguably did, we now have either players past their peak or young players with huge potential who need good coaching, the only player you could argue is even close to his peak right now is Mata back then near enough the whole squad were."
I guess that plays into the rationale for arguing that our past-prime and more experienced players should get involved in the management/coaching aspect. Lamps, Terry, and Cech have all demonstrated leadership qualities, and could be of benefit in helping more experienced managers like Grant and Benitez.
"Mourinho stayed we would have hit 100 points and a treble at the very least and before anyone mentions the poor start Jose made..."
The problem wasn't just a poor start. There seemed to be a palpable sense of frustration and lack of ideas on Mourinho's part. He was constantly complaining about a lack of support, and the need to bring in new players. This had been going on for a while, and JM seemed stumped on what to do without reinforcements; there were times when it felt that he was pretty much indifferent as to whether he would remain at the club, or go somewhere else (at least that was my perception of things), and he often took opportunities to bash the players on a personal level, as well as to question their performances. The signs did not look promising, but that's just my opinion.
posted on 3/12/12
he problem now is team attitude. We need someone with communication skills to reintroduce that feeling of confidence that comes with winning . matches
-----------------------------------------------
Yep - poor morale seems to be one of our biggest problems, and a turnaround in results, or a manager who can instil confidence could definitely address that. But I think that this lack of morale has been brought on by on-field issues.
The new attacking mids played their hearts out earlier in the season. Sorry to beat this into the ground, but when they saw that all of the chances they were creating, and all their running and effort, is for nil (because a certain striker is not able to take advantage of these chances), they started to put in a lot less effort. Pretty soon, they will become indifferent. A new striker would be the ideal way to boost morale. Ship Torres to Anzhi to reassure the team that this episode is in the past. There will be no progress until he is either at another club, or is, at most, a super-sub (although he's not fit to lace Kalou's boots).
posted on 3/12/12
if Avram is brought in my faith in Roman and the board will be finished, it was difficult enough justifying RDMs dismissal.
What is going on at cfc is not Rafas fault.
i really can't see it, but recently things have happened at the club that no could see coming.
posted on 3/12/12
In rafa we trust
See, this is my issue with you. Not 7 days ago you were telling somebody to eff off and support some other club, for daring to speak out against Roman. I agree with the opinion you've just written, but you're very double standard!
posted on 3/12/12
flash fc off , please read every thing ive posted over the weekend before harrasing me, go and try to pick on someone your own size, get your pint out someone else.
This a forum its about developing thoughts and ideas.
posted on 3/12/12
Correct, but within 7 days you've went from telling somebody TO SUPPORT SOME OTHER CLUB for speaking out against Roman. To now doing so yourself.
If I were picking on you I would not have 5d most of your recent articles. I'm pointing out a double standardness within you. We all have it, some us accept it and clearly some of us don't!
posted on 3/12/12
Rafa out - Grant in!
You Chelsea fans really don't have a clue. Complain about sacking managers then give a manager 3 games before complaining that you want him out, a multi-trophy winning manager and replaced with a two time relegation manager. You couldn't make this stuff up.
posted on 3/12/12
flash double standards,i can understand how you could take that view if you havent read all my stuff recently posted, which is fair enough.
But to be honest in general i defend cfc & roman without fail, and the mornning we had our exchange was in fact a turnning point, you know my view of the media, i wouldnt trust what they say as far as i could throw them.
Also i found the attacks of Roman and the club at times to be very simplistic ,not expressing the debt we owe to Roman.
Hence my comments to you,for which i apologise any offence ment was simply part of the days emotional roller coaster.
Pre the FA CUP & C/L wins i had been very very unhappy with the way CFC was being run , in particular after the wilkins sacking.
But that night which enjoyed immensely in munich changed my concerns & i accepted that Roman was running the club his way , but his intentions were true.
But after this seasons debacles its clear something is wrong and Romans methods are not working.
And im almost back to where i was after the wilkins sacking.
posted on 3/12/12
Avram feckin Grant....
give me strength....please...just till January when we can buy someone who knows where the net is
posted on 3/12/12
alright sheriff you couldnt write whats going on at the moment!
posted on 3/12/12
My 'gast' is well 'flabbered'....embarrasing times at our club
posted on 3/12/12
" we dont know what were doing"
posted on 3/12/12
See, I'm a fan. A fellow fan. I agree with your siege mentality. But I think there is something wrong with How Roman runs Chelsea.
I can't deny our success, but could we have had more if he'd let Jose just do his job? Perhaps and then again perhaps not, as Jose does appear to get a little stale come his 3rd/4th year.
My biggest problem is none of us know what would please him. For an obviously intelligent man, at foot al level he does not seem to learn from his mistakes.
But as much as I'd defend chelsea against other clubs' fans, I don't feel it makes me less loyal to question the owner.
Just as it doesn't make me less British if at times I disagreed with the PM.
posted on 3/12/12
Jose would have moved on anyway....irrespective of whether Roman decided when or not..
Trouble is with Roman...there's no-one to compare him weith really..& £11b buys you pretty much whatever desires you have......currently he's just playing Football Manager 2012 - for real
posted on 3/12/12
Fair point Flash, were all fighting the same war ( i had hoped it was following the same club)
But at the moment it feels like war, in my mind Roman has been great ( and can continue)but his time as football manager hands on should come to an end.
Hes has taken us as far as he can ( in his present role)
He has invested 1 bln gbp and we have no credible management structure / club ethos ect act.
which isnt right and doesn't bode well going forward.
posted on 3/12/12
"Complain about sacking managers then give a manager 3 games before complaining that you want him out, a multi-trophy winning manager and replaced with a two time relegation manager. "
Yes, Benitez is clearly a great manager - that's why there were so many clubs, including Liverpool, scrambling for his services in recent times. He could have had his pick, but he chose us!
You don't seem to have comprehended what's going on. Chelsea fans were not calling for Benitez to be replaced by Grant; it's simply a rumor that's going around, and if RA makes that decision, that's fine. Many of us would be happy if it were true, as we never wanted Benitez in the first place. Grant is only being touted as a safety net, and would only take over if Benitez does not produce good results.
In your own special way, your complaint seems to be that getting rid of Rafa would contradict our desire for managerial stability. He is a caretaker manager, he hasn't been here long, and he's beyond irritating to most of the fanbase, so if the bad results continue, and he goes, it doesn't undermine our stability, as he never offered any.
If any of that was over your head, please ask somebody else to explain it, as I can't be bothered.
posted on 3/12/12
Grant was not in charge at Chelsea - he was just a physical entity that had little to no power.
He is a poor manger, just ask West ham Fans......
posted on 3/12/12
in rafa...
"He has invested 1 bln gbp and we have no credible management structure / club ethos ect act.
which isnt right and doesn't bode well going forward."
and yet.....If you asked any goo'ner or $pud or pool fan to swap the last ten years...what do you reckon though..?
posted on 3/12/12
i know mate, but the chaos we are in today is real we are lurching from one problem to the other,the gaffer needs a new approach.
posted on 3/12/12
yes Avram is a poor manager ,he was a caretaker whilst at cfc the side running on the players and Joses power.
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