Dave - agree with that analysis and I think to be fair when BD was in charge and we were playing well (which we did in patches but certainly not for the majority of his tenure) both Morgan and Chambers played this high line - passing the ball among themselves and using two wide fullbacks who pushed high up the pitch to bring width. When it works, it's great. Unfortunately it's not working with our current back 4.
Sutton, if giving the manager two years is nonsense, what is the al Hasawi's three - five year plan?
I believe they said 3-5 year to win trophies not promotion, it's unrealistic IMO but I think that's more in line with there thinking. You think they'll carry on putting up to £20m a year in for 5 years in this league? You think they're paying Sharp Hutton and JJ for a midtable building job?
It's rubbish. People keep going on about a 3-5 year plan for promotion and I don't think they've ever said that. I think some of us need to snap back in to the real world. We're talking huge sums of money here. Every season requires huge investment.
They did state that there was no expectation to get promoted this season.
To be fair Sutton does have a point, I cannot see this level of financial backaging by the owners without them expecting some sort of return this year and even though they may not be expecting promotion this season, I don't think they will not be aiming for that and i believe that they will expect a top 6 finish even if that dosn't lead to promotion.
To be fair as Sutton says if you were putting this amount of money into the club, would you not expect to see some results, and if you don't see an employee producing the results then surely you eventually fire them? It is only logical whether you agree with it or not.
The owners went on a great charm offensive when they came over. Nice,smiley, genial fellows that want what's best for the club. I'm not saying they aren't nice or don't want what's best. But underneath it they're billionaire buisness men and they're hard as nails.
They didn't come here to make up numbers and they will protect their investment. Fair enough they might not expect promotion this year. I'm not saying I do. But they'll want too see we're close.
Because of the public image they've portrayed I think some are forgetting who they actually are and why they've come here. There's no prestige or kudos for them back home for owning a NPC club and failure makes them look bad. It's all about respect and face. They'll want EPL football and when it comes down to it won't give a monkeys about SoD.
Al-Hasawi first press conference stated:
Business plan:
* Currently reviewing a 3 to 5 year business plan to take the club back where it belongs in the Premier League.
* Main focus is to develop the clubs back bone.
* Also looking at other developments elsewhere including raising revenue off field.
* They will practice what they achieved at previous club. This was a smaller plan which took 2 or 3 seasons to set up the team.
* Acknowledge the investment in the academy has been excellent and want to continue this.
* One day would like to be with Manchester City and United in the top flight.
* If investment was unsuccessful, they will stay at the club as their ownership is about passion, not profit.
That's a snippet. I don't think SOD is under any pressure at the moment. We all know that the above, which was said at their first press meeting, could easily be changed to suit. For example they stated that they would bring Arab based footballers over but had their plans scuppered.
Hopefully, a few good results against some of the better teams coming up will change people's minds with regards to getting rid.
Sounds great Webbo. But it goes back to what I said about a charm offensive. That's what we all want to hear. Not sure I believe it or at least all of it.
They told Cotterill he'd be staying on then got rid. To me the numbers don't add up.
I don't think many are for getting rid. In not. All I'm saying is I believe things are more urgent than others think. And I'm concerned about the lack of improvement on the pitch over the last couple of months.
At this rate the owners will either have to scale back investment in the next few season in this league and brake a team up to cut the wage bill. Or put crazy money in.
I think the lack of a regular back 4 hasn't helped. I would expect them to back him again in January. I do hope though that we purchase (note purchase an out and out winger) Sharp is crying out for service. His frustration on the pitch will rub off onto others.
Collins needs either Ayala back or another partner and I still feel that there are better left backs out there.
Losing Gunter hasn't helped either and the only player, apart from Hutchinson, that I feel we have capable of playing right back is Maloney and although I've been impressed, I think there is better out there even in our own division.
I agree with you we need to play entertaining football.
I also believe that this team can produce it. We should stop worrying about how the opposition will play and worry about how we will beat them. Home or Away!
I agree with most of the above Webbo.
I haven't been overly impressed with any of our defenders to be honest. Hutchinsons looked good when he's played which is hardly at all. Ayalas good on the ball but not great defensibly imo and Collins is ok. But i suppose defenders often only look as good as the unit they're part of and the players around them.
And the stuff about not worrying about the opposition is spot on. We should have enough attacking talent in our squad to face anyone in this league home or away and fancy ourselves. This is probably the main reason SoD has come in for so much stick this week.
After the investment and with the players at our disposal fans see us as one of the leagues top sides and they expect teams like Hull to be coming to the City Ground worrying about us. Not the other way round.
At the end of the day if you win the game fans forget about it. I thought we were worse against Wednesday than against Hull. But the performance largely went unnoticed because the result.
I don't think they meant 3-5 years for promotion, I think they meant 3 -5 years to establish the club in the PL.
I would expect promotion next season or the one after, if we are still where we are now in twelve months time then I think that is the time to change the manager. In other words I would hope that SOD is given another two windows to put together a promotion winning squad.
For me the back four / five is the most important thing in any team. If our wingers are constantly having to track back this curbs the attacking threat we have. If both wide midfield men are helping out the defence along with the holding midfielder that effective leads us to having seven outfield players at the back. When we do break with only three or four players up field we will always be outnumbered. It's ok if you have pace players to get up field quickly but if not the opposition have time to get numbers back.
Spot on Jacko. A good fullback rarely needs support from his winger. A good fullback is an attacking threat too so tends to force the opposition winger to help out his own fullback. I don't remember Ian Woan having to help out Psycho do you??
Gunter is having a mare at Reading by all accounts .. maybe they'd loan/sell him back to us??
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posted on 4/12/12
Dave - agree with that analysis and I think to be fair when BD was in charge and we were playing well (which we did in patches but certainly not for the majority of his tenure) both Morgan and Chambers played this high line - passing the ball among themselves and using two wide fullbacks who pushed high up the pitch to bring width. When it works, it's great. Unfortunately it's not working with our current back 4.
posted on 4/12/12
Sutton, if giving the manager two years is nonsense, what is the al Hasawi's three - five year plan?
posted on 4/12/12
I believe they said 3-5 year to win trophies not promotion, it's unrealistic IMO but I think that's more in line with there thinking. You think they'll carry on putting up to £20m a year in for 5 years in this league? You think they're paying Sharp Hutton and JJ for a midtable building job?
It's rubbish. People keep going on about a 3-5 year plan for promotion and I don't think they've ever said that. I think some of us need to snap back in to the real world. We're talking huge sums of money here. Every season requires huge investment.
posted on 4/12/12
They did state that there was no expectation to get promoted this season.
posted on 4/12/12
To be fair Sutton does have a point, I cannot see this level of financial backaging by the owners without them expecting some sort of return this year and even though they may not be expecting promotion this season, I don't think they will not be aiming for that and i believe that they will expect a top 6 finish even if that dosn't lead to promotion.
To be fair as Sutton says if you were putting this amount of money into the club, would you not expect to see some results, and if you don't see an employee producing the results then surely you eventually fire them? It is only logical whether you agree with it or not.
posted on 4/12/12
backing*
posted on 4/12/12
The owners went on a great charm offensive when they came over. Nice,smiley, genial fellows that want what's best for the club. I'm not saying they aren't nice or don't want what's best. But underneath it they're billionaire buisness men and they're hard as nails.
They didn't come here to make up numbers and they will protect their investment. Fair enough they might not expect promotion this year. I'm not saying I do. But they'll want too see we're close.
Because of the public image they've portrayed I think some are forgetting who they actually are and why they've come here. There's no prestige or kudos for them back home for owning a NPC club and failure makes them look bad. It's all about respect and face. They'll want EPL football and when it comes down to it won't give a monkeys about SoD.
posted on 4/12/12
Al-Hasawi first press conference stated:
Business plan:
* Currently reviewing a 3 to 5 year business plan to take the club back where it belongs in the Premier League.
* Main focus is to develop the clubs back bone.
* Also looking at other developments elsewhere including raising revenue off field.
* They will practice what they achieved at previous club. This was a smaller plan which took 2 or 3 seasons to set up the team.
* Acknowledge the investment in the academy has been excellent and want to continue this.
* One day would like to be with Manchester City and United in the top flight.
* If investment was unsuccessful, they will stay at the club as their ownership is about passion, not profit.
That's a snippet. I don't think SOD is under any pressure at the moment. We all know that the above, which was said at their first press meeting, could easily be changed to suit. For example they stated that they would bring Arab based footballers over but had their plans scuppered.
Hopefully, a few good results against some of the better teams coming up will change people's minds with regards to getting rid.
posted on 4/12/12
Sounds great Webbo. But it goes back to what I said about a charm offensive. That's what we all want to hear. Not sure I believe it or at least all of it.
They told Cotterill he'd be staying on then got rid. To me the numbers don't add up.
I don't think many are for getting rid. In not. All I'm saying is I believe things are more urgent than others think. And I'm concerned about the lack of improvement on the pitch over the last couple of months.
At this rate the owners will either have to scale back investment in the next few season in this league and brake a team up to cut the wage bill. Or put crazy money in.
posted on 4/12/12
I think the lack of a regular back 4 hasn't helped. I would expect them to back him again in January. I do hope though that we purchase (note purchase an out and out winger) Sharp is crying out for service. His frustration on the pitch will rub off onto others.
Collins needs either Ayala back or another partner and I still feel that there are better left backs out there.
Losing Gunter hasn't helped either and the only player, apart from Hutchinson, that I feel we have capable of playing right back is Maloney and although I've been impressed, I think there is better out there even in our own division.
I agree with you we need to play entertaining football.
I also believe that this team can produce it. We should stop worrying about how the opposition will play and worry about how we will beat them. Home or Away!
posted on 4/12/12
I agree with most of the above Webbo.
I haven't been overly impressed with any of our defenders to be honest. Hutchinsons looked good when he's played which is hardly at all. Ayalas good on the ball but not great defensibly imo and Collins is ok. But i suppose defenders often only look as good as the unit they're part of and the players around them.
And the stuff about not worrying about the opposition is spot on. We should have enough attacking talent in our squad to face anyone in this league home or away and fancy ourselves. This is probably the main reason SoD has come in for so much stick this week.
After the investment and with the players at our disposal fans see us as one of the leagues top sides and they expect teams like Hull to be coming to the City Ground worrying about us. Not the other way round.
At the end of the day if you win the game fans forget about it. I thought we were worse against Wednesday than against Hull. But the performance largely went unnoticed because the result.
posted on 4/12/12
I don't think they meant 3-5 years for promotion, I think they meant 3 -5 years to establish the club in the PL.
I would expect promotion next season or the one after, if we are still where we are now in twelve months time then I think that is the time to change the manager. In other words I would hope that SOD is given another two windows to put together a promotion winning squad.
posted on 4/12/12
For me the back four / five is the most important thing in any team. If our wingers are constantly having to track back this curbs the attacking threat we have. If both wide midfield men are helping out the defence along with the holding midfielder that effective leads us to having seven outfield players at the back. When we do break with only three or four players up field we will always be outnumbered. It's ok if you have pace players to get up field quickly but if not the opposition have time to get numbers back.
posted on 4/12/12
Spot on Jacko. A good fullback rarely needs support from his winger. A good fullback is an attacking threat too so tends to force the opposition winger to help out his own fullback. I don't remember Ian Woan having to help out Psycho do you??
posted on 5/12/12
Gunter is having a mare at Reading by all accounts .. maybe they'd loan/sell him back to us??
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