Mr Kagawa, you talk like you are the gods gift to tactics when really its just a badly disguised manc attack on Gerrard who is still one of the most effective players for Liverpool. Fact mate.
--------------
Ha. It's an opinion on a football player. If I wanted to WUM I'd come on and talk about him punching DJ's.
I think what I'm saying is true. And much the same as when Scholes and Giggs retire, Liverpool will look a lot better when Gerrard isn't in the team. Do you want it to get to the stage that we're at with our legends where the fans can't actually wait for them to retire?
It isn't a nice scenario. And you can bang on about key passes all you like but they mean the grand total of nothing. Gerrard has looked poor for some time now and regularly gives the ball away and under this new system employed by Rodgers sticks out like a sore thumb. His age doesn't help.
If you disagree that's fine, but don't cry about it.
This is easy
Is Gerrard past it? No.
Does he still have some use to the Liverpool team? Yes
Is he the player he once was? No
Should he be a guaranteed starter? No, there should be some rotation.
The OP has an epic fail of an article on his hands.
**********************
Don't see how a question can be a fail of an article. I think he is past it
==
Well stats and experts say you are wrong. Simple.
------------------
Exactly, Gerrard is doing a different job now and he's doing it well, we do get frustrated with him though when he plays a hollywood pass and gives the ball away, but the stats prove he is creating chances.
Anyone who think Gerarrd is past it needs to consider if they really know as much about football as they think they do. Go away, take the (your club) tinted glasses off, look at the stas and then realise that you are very wrong and just an idiot.
Gerrard. Legend, and still a key man.
Ha. It's an opinion on a football player. If I wanted to WUM I'd come on and talk about him punching DJ's.
==
Not bothered about that anyway. It happened, and then nothing happened after that so there we go.
Kagawa_26 - Cleverson! (U15671)
posted 2 minutes ago
Mr Kagawa, you talk like you are the gods gift to tactics when really its just a badly disguised manc attack on Gerrard who is still one of the most effective players for Liverpool. Fact mate.
--------------
Ha. It's an opinion on a football player. If I wanted to WUM I'd come on and talk about him punching DJ's.
I think what I'm saying is true. And much the same as when Scholes and Giggs retire, Liverpool will look a lot better when Gerrard isn't in the team. Do you want it to get to the stage that we're at with our legends where the fans can't actually wait for them to retire?
It isn't a nice scenario. And you can bang on about key passes all you like but they mean the grand total of nothing. Gerrard has looked poor for some time now and regularly gives the ball away and under this new system employed by Rodgers sticks out like a sore thumb. His age doesn't help.
If you disagree that's fine, but don't cry about it.
===
I disagree and am not crying.
You havent seen Gerrard for a whole game more than 10 times this season and a few highlights on MOTD do not constitute an assessment of a player we see every week. As Aggers said, he is playing the style and we are 4 months into the season. The stats dont lie and they mean something to some people. We are lower in the table at the moment despite having Gerrard and not because of him.
He isnt as good as 05 of course but he is 33 and not nearly 40.
Not bothered about that anyway. It happened, and then nothing happened after that so there we go.
-----------
That's my point. Neither am I. The article was on the Football board and I gave my opinion and actually explained why I thought it. You took it to heart and started crying about 'disguised attacks'.
The weight comment was a joke. But on a serious note, has Gerrard actually put on weight? He looks a lot heavier than he did.
comment by Aggers Right Elbow. (U3402)
posted 7 minutes ago
Weirdly, I want to see you at least competing for 4th. It will make for a better league if Liverpool start doing something.
^^^^^^
This
We would stand a better chance in the CL than Arsenal who are just making up the numbers and the two El Plastico clubs.
------------------------------------------
Too bad Liverpool are not good enough to get top 4 to qualify then eh ...
I bet he is heavier now than when he was 25 but there probably isnt many cases where that doesnt happen.
If Gerrard is 'past it' then there are a lot of awful plyers in the league.
Frankie Lampards Dietician (U13688)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Aggers Right Elbow. (U3402)
posted 7 minutes ago
Weirdly, I want to see you at least competing for 4th. It will make for a better league if Liverpool start doing something.
^^^^^^
This
We would stand a better chance in the CL than Arsenal who are just making up the numbers and the two El Plastico clubs.
------------------------------------------
Too bad Liverpool are not good enough to get top 4 to qualify then eh ...
==
So the season is done with? How do you know?
"Too bad Liverpool are not good enough to get top 4 to qualify then eh ..."
Yeah, that 4 point gap is impossible to make up over the few games left this season
If Gerrard is 'past it' then there are a lot of awful plyers in the league.
---------------
There is.
Gerrard, Lampard and Scholes are as good as finished at the highest level. The likes of Fabregas and Modric are gone. Other than Toure and potentially Wilshere, the standard of central midfielders that are fit and playing regularly is nothing short of a joke compared to what it was.
There are plenty of good midfielders. Very few top drawer, though.
...And you can bang on about key passes all you like but they mean the grand total of nothing
-------
Kagawa
That has to be the most un-educated statement I have ever heard. You clearly know nothing about football! Key passes usually result in chances on goal. And while they dont directly result in goals being scored, the momementum that a shot on goal brings to a game cannot be measured. You sir are a mug if you can't recognise this!
Is he past it? What does that even mean?
Does it mean is he worse than he used to be? Then yes.
Does it mean is he now not good enough to play for Liverpool at Premier League level? Then no, he isn't past it.
Kenny
Chill out big man. I should have explained that better. Making key passes is all well and good, however, if the rest of the game doesn't meet the standards required - which, I don't think Gerrard's does for Liverpool anymore - then those key passes are to me, a tad irrelevant.
Giggs, for example, makes many key passes for United. Infact, even at 39 I guarantee he would create chances for any team on earth. The rest of his game is diabolical, worse than Gerrard's, and that's what I'm trying to get at. What I said looks a bit daft as a stand alone comment, admittedly, as creating chances is a big part of the game.
I'm not really too big on stats, I prefer to just watch the player and go from there. If Gerrard was still class then I'd love to say so for the sake of the national team. But at the rate he gives the ball away and doesn't change games like he once did then I just don't see it. Quit with the 'you know nothing' bullshiit and chill.
"Chill out big man. I should have explained that better. Making key passes is all well and good, however, if the rest of the game doesn't meet the standards required - which, I don't think Gerrard's does for Liverpool anymore - then those key passes are to me, a tad irrelevant."
See that's where you're confused. It isn't irrelvant as it's what wins you games. Different players have different roles and Gerrard's is to make key passes, to penetrate so we can score. He's doing that.
TOOR
So why haven't you been winning games? Suarez is on fire. Your defence is usually as good as any. You're playing some really attractive stuff, at times. I'm not even blaming Gerrard here but where has/was it going wrong? I imagine it's taking time to gel, possibly.
comment by Kagawa_26 - Cleverson! (U15671) posted 44 seconds ago
TOOR
So why haven't you been winning games? Suarez is on fire. Your defence is usually as good as any. You're playing some really attractive stuff, at times. I'm not even blaming Gerrard here but where has/was it going wrong? I imagine it's taking time to gel, possibly.
-----------------------------------
Because we don't have enough goalscorers. Only Suarez. It's very simple. United have RVP, Rooney, Young, Hernandez, Welbeck, Nani etc who are penetrative players and can score goals. Liverpool have Suarez.
TOOR
Fair enough. Personally, I don't know why your owners don't just bust the bank of somebody like Sneijder. I know it's very unrealistic. But a player like him and a centre forward like Huntelaar would give you a great chance at 4th place. Arsenal are hideous and Spurs don't fill me with a lot of confidence so it's a spot there for the taking.
Regarding Gerrard, it seems a lot of your fans still have faith. I think you could probably do better now, but we'll just have to disagree there.
Kagawa 26 - well said.
Stevie Gerrard is definitely past it - so far that it hinders the progress of the team.
Yesh - he played a high number of key passes but how many of those actually lead to real goal scoring chances? Not very many.
There is another stat (I can't it remember it entirely) but it shows the number of CLEAR CUT CHANCES created. To put it into context, Enrique has created more CCC than Gerrard despite playing less games.
Gerrard puts in free kicks and corners which count as a key pass - has anyone seen the terrible set pieces he produces???
Number of key passes is very misleading. As mentione previously, his all round game has been shocking. Lazy, unable to track back, slow, unable to defend and press.
comment by Kagawa_26 - Cleverson! (U15671) posted 15 minutes ago
TOOR
Fair enough. Personally, I don't know why your owners don't just bust the bank of somebody like Sneijder. I know it's very unrealistic. But a player like him and a centre forward like Huntelaar would give you a great chance at 4th place. Arsenal are hideous and Spurs don't fill me with a lot of confidence so it's a spot there for the taking.
Regarding Gerrard, it seems a lot of your fans still have faith. I think you could probably do better now, but we'll just have to disagree there.
-------------------------------------------
I don't think we could sign somebody like Sneijder, that's the problem.
I do however think we'll buy a couple of attackers in January.
"Gerrard puts in free kicks and corners which count as a key pass - has anyone seen the terrible set pieces he produces???"
If they are terrible then they don't contribute to the key passes he's made, as you say. If they aren't terrible and in fact turn out to be key passes, then what's the difference? You score goals from both set plays and open play and get the same amount of goals when the ball goes in the net, either way.
Number of key passes isn't misleading, it tells you how many key passes he's made and that he's penetrating with his passing, something that I didn't need stats to say as I've been saying it all season when people like you have been slating him. It turns out I was right, you were wrong and now you're arguing facts.
Give it up, you were wrong, move on.
He's the only one in our midfield whose natural instinct is to play forward. Shelvey possibly the only other one that comes close.
Performances haven't been great so far this year, I'm sure he himself knows that.
So are you telling me that if Gerrard puts a ball in, and lands on our players head but the player had no chance of scoring - that counts as a key pass? Merely because the player was able to connect with the ball?
We have only scored 22 goals this season - why haven't we scored any more? You can argue and say Suarez is the only one capable of scoring but how many throughballs has Stevie played? How many of his passes have actually led to a clear cut chance?
As I have already mentioned - Enrique has contributed MORE to our attack than Stevie has in terms of clear cut chances. You only have to see the matches where Jose starts at left wing to notice how more penetrative our attack is.
People were defending Stevie because they felt we needed Lucas back. Lucas has been back for 2 games and Stevie has been awful.
In fact, he's been awful for the past 3 years but I get lambasted for that.
Look at Kenny's first half season at the start 2011 - look how well we played when Stevie was injured. Goals, wins and points. Brilliant.
Then look at second half of 2012 - we may not have had the results but we were still in touching distance of 4th and played great football.
Stevie comes back for 2012 - we didn't get the results and performances sufffered, and only up until a month ago, we had only won 2 homes games all season. Is it a coincidence?
*
That should read:
Then look at second half of 2011 - we may not have had the results but we were still in touching distance of 4th and played great football.
Sign in if you want to comment
Is Stevie-G past it...........
Page 2 of 4
posted on 11/12/12
Mr Kagawa, you talk like you are the gods gift to tactics when really its just a badly disguised manc attack on Gerrard who is still one of the most effective players for Liverpool. Fact mate.
--------------
Ha. It's an opinion on a football player. If I wanted to WUM I'd come on and talk about him punching DJ's.
I think what I'm saying is true. And much the same as when Scholes and Giggs retire, Liverpool will look a lot better when Gerrard isn't in the team. Do you want it to get to the stage that we're at with our legends where the fans can't actually wait for them to retire?
It isn't a nice scenario. And you can bang on about key passes all you like but they mean the grand total of nothing. Gerrard has looked poor for some time now and regularly gives the ball away and under this new system employed by Rodgers sticks out like a sore thumb. His age doesn't help.
If you disagree that's fine, but don't cry about it.
posted on 11/12/12
This is easy
Is Gerrard past it? No.
Does he still have some use to the Liverpool team? Yes
Is he the player he once was? No
Should he be a guaranteed starter? No, there should be some rotation.
posted on 11/12/12
The OP has an epic fail of an article on his hands.
**********************
Don't see how a question can be a fail of an article. I think he is past it
==
Well stats and experts say you are wrong. Simple.
------------------
Exactly, Gerrard is doing a different job now and he's doing it well, we do get frustrated with him though when he plays a hollywood pass and gives the ball away, but the stats prove he is creating chances.
posted on 11/12/12
Anyone who think Gerarrd is past it needs to consider if they really know as much about football as they think they do. Go away, take the (your club) tinted glasses off, look at the stas and then realise that you are very wrong and just an idiot.
Gerrard. Legend, and still a key man.
posted on 11/12/12
Ha. It's an opinion on a football player. If I wanted to WUM I'd come on and talk about him punching DJ's.
==
Not bothered about that anyway. It happened, and then nothing happened after that so there we go.
posted on 11/12/12
Kagawa_26 - Cleverson! (U15671)
posted 2 minutes ago
Mr Kagawa, you talk like you are the gods gift to tactics when really its just a badly disguised manc attack on Gerrard who is still one of the most effective players for Liverpool. Fact mate.
--------------
Ha. It's an opinion on a football player. If I wanted to WUM I'd come on and talk about him punching DJ's.
I think what I'm saying is true. And much the same as when Scholes and Giggs retire, Liverpool will look a lot better when Gerrard isn't in the team. Do you want it to get to the stage that we're at with our legends where the fans can't actually wait for them to retire?
It isn't a nice scenario. And you can bang on about key passes all you like but they mean the grand total of nothing. Gerrard has looked poor for some time now and regularly gives the ball away and under this new system employed by Rodgers sticks out like a sore thumb. His age doesn't help.
If you disagree that's fine, but don't cry about it.
===
I disagree and am not crying.
You havent seen Gerrard for a whole game more than 10 times this season and a few highlights on MOTD do not constitute an assessment of a player we see every week. As Aggers said, he is playing the style and we are 4 months into the season. The stats dont lie and they mean something to some people. We are lower in the table at the moment despite having Gerrard and not because of him.
He isnt as good as 05 of course but he is 33 and not nearly 40.
posted on 11/12/12
Not bothered about that anyway. It happened, and then nothing happened after that so there we go.
-----------
That's my point. Neither am I. The article was on the Football board and I gave my opinion and actually explained why I thought it. You took it to heart and started crying about 'disguised attacks'.
The weight comment was a joke. But on a serious note, has Gerrard actually put on weight? He looks a lot heavier than he did.
posted on 11/12/12
comment by Aggers Right Elbow. (U3402)
posted 7 minutes ago
Weirdly, I want to see you at least competing for 4th. It will make for a better league if Liverpool start doing something.
^^^^^^
This
We would stand a better chance in the CL than Arsenal who are just making up the numbers and the two El Plastico clubs.
------------------------------------------
Too bad Liverpool are not good enough to get top 4 to qualify then eh ...
posted on 11/12/12
I bet he is heavier now than when he was 25 but there probably isnt many cases where that doesnt happen.
If Gerrard is 'past it' then there are a lot of awful plyers in the league.
posted on 11/12/12
Frankie Lampards Dietician (U13688)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Aggers Right Elbow. (U3402)
posted 7 minutes ago
Weirdly, I want to see you at least competing for 4th. It will make for a better league if Liverpool start doing something.
^^^^^^
This
We would stand a better chance in the CL than Arsenal who are just making up the numbers and the two El Plastico clubs.
------------------------------------------
Too bad Liverpool are not good enough to get top 4 to qualify then eh ...
==
So the season is done with? How do you know?
posted on 11/12/12
"Too bad Liverpool are not good enough to get top 4 to qualify then eh ..."
Yeah, that 4 point gap is impossible to make up over the few games left this season
posted on 11/12/12
If Gerrard is 'past it' then there are a lot of awful plyers in the league.
---------------
There is.
Gerrard, Lampard and Scholes are as good as finished at the highest level. The likes of Fabregas and Modric are gone. Other than Toure and potentially Wilshere, the standard of central midfielders that are fit and playing regularly is nothing short of a joke compared to what it was.
There are plenty of good midfielders. Very few top drawer, though.
posted on 11/12/12
...And you can bang on about key passes all you like but they mean the grand total of nothing
-------
Kagawa
That has to be the most un-educated statement I have ever heard. You clearly know nothing about football! Key passes usually result in chances on goal. And while they dont directly result in goals being scored, the momementum that a shot on goal brings to a game cannot be measured. You sir are a mug if you can't recognise this!
posted on 11/12/12
Is he past it? What does that even mean?
Does it mean is he worse than he used to be? Then yes.
Does it mean is he now not good enough to play for Liverpool at Premier League level? Then no, he isn't past it.
posted on 11/12/12
Kenny
Chill out big man. I should have explained that better. Making key passes is all well and good, however, if the rest of the game doesn't meet the standards required - which, I don't think Gerrard's does for Liverpool anymore - then those key passes are to me, a tad irrelevant.
Giggs, for example, makes many key passes for United. Infact, even at 39 I guarantee he would create chances for any team on earth. The rest of his game is diabolical, worse than Gerrard's, and that's what I'm trying to get at. What I said looks a bit daft as a stand alone comment, admittedly, as creating chances is a big part of the game.
I'm not really too big on stats, I prefer to just watch the player and go from there. If Gerrard was still class then I'd love to say so for the sake of the national team. But at the rate he gives the ball away and doesn't change games like he once did then I just don't see it. Quit with the 'you know nothing' bullshiit and chill.
posted on 11/12/12
"Chill out big man. I should have explained that better. Making key passes is all well and good, however, if the rest of the game doesn't meet the standards required - which, I don't think Gerrard's does for Liverpool anymore - then those key passes are to me, a tad irrelevant."
See that's where you're confused. It isn't irrelvant as it's what wins you games. Different players have different roles and Gerrard's is to make key passes, to penetrate so we can score. He's doing that.
posted on 11/12/12
TOOR
So why haven't you been winning games? Suarez is on fire. Your defence is usually as good as any. You're playing some really attractive stuff, at times. I'm not even blaming Gerrard here but where has/was it going wrong? I imagine it's taking time to gel, possibly.
posted on 11/12/12
comment by Kagawa_26 - Cleverson! (U15671) posted 44 seconds ago
TOOR
So why haven't you been winning games? Suarez is on fire. Your defence is usually as good as any. You're playing some really attractive stuff, at times. I'm not even blaming Gerrard here but where has/was it going wrong? I imagine it's taking time to gel, possibly.
-----------------------------------
Because we don't have enough goalscorers. Only Suarez. It's very simple. United have RVP, Rooney, Young, Hernandez, Welbeck, Nani etc who are penetrative players and can score goals. Liverpool have Suarez.
posted on 11/12/12
TOOR
Fair enough. Personally, I don't know why your owners don't just bust the bank of somebody like Sneijder. I know it's very unrealistic. But a player like him and a centre forward like Huntelaar would give you a great chance at 4th place. Arsenal are hideous and Spurs don't fill me with a lot of confidence so it's a spot there for the taking.
Regarding Gerrard, it seems a lot of your fans still have faith. I think you could probably do better now, but we'll just have to disagree there.
posted on 11/12/12
Kagawa 26 - well said.
Stevie Gerrard is definitely past it - so far that it hinders the progress of the team.
Yesh - he played a high number of key passes but how many of those actually lead to real goal scoring chances? Not very many.
There is another stat (I can't it remember it entirely) but it shows the number of CLEAR CUT CHANCES created. To put it into context, Enrique has created more CCC than Gerrard despite playing less games.
Gerrard puts in free kicks and corners which count as a key pass - has anyone seen the terrible set pieces he produces???
Number of key passes is very misleading. As mentione previously, his all round game has been shocking. Lazy, unable to track back, slow, unable to defend and press.
posted on 11/12/12
comment by Kagawa_26 - Cleverson! (U15671) posted 15 minutes ago
TOOR
Fair enough. Personally, I don't know why your owners don't just bust the bank of somebody like Sneijder. I know it's very unrealistic. But a player like him and a centre forward like Huntelaar would give you a great chance at 4th place. Arsenal are hideous and Spurs don't fill me with a lot of confidence so it's a spot there for the taking.
Regarding Gerrard, it seems a lot of your fans still have faith. I think you could probably do better now, but we'll just have to disagree there.
-------------------------------------------
I don't think we could sign somebody like Sneijder, that's the problem.
I do however think we'll buy a couple of attackers in January.
posted on 11/12/12
"Gerrard puts in free kicks and corners which count as a key pass - has anyone seen the terrible set pieces he produces???"
If they are terrible then they don't contribute to the key passes he's made, as you say. If they aren't terrible and in fact turn out to be key passes, then what's the difference? You score goals from both set plays and open play and get the same amount of goals when the ball goes in the net, either way.
Number of key passes isn't misleading, it tells you how many key passes he's made and that he's penetrating with his passing, something that I didn't need stats to say as I've been saying it all season when people like you have been slating him. It turns out I was right, you were wrong and now you're arguing facts.
Give it up, you were wrong, move on.
posted on 11/12/12
He's the only one in our midfield whose natural instinct is to play forward. Shelvey possibly the only other one that comes close.
Performances haven't been great so far this year, I'm sure he himself knows that.
posted on 11/12/12
So are you telling me that if Gerrard puts a ball in, and lands on our players head but the player had no chance of scoring - that counts as a key pass? Merely because the player was able to connect with the ball?
We have only scored 22 goals this season - why haven't we scored any more? You can argue and say Suarez is the only one capable of scoring but how many throughballs has Stevie played? How many of his passes have actually led to a clear cut chance?
As I have already mentioned - Enrique has contributed MORE to our attack than Stevie has in terms of clear cut chances. You only have to see the matches where Jose starts at left wing to notice how more penetrative our attack is.
People were defending Stevie because they felt we needed Lucas back. Lucas has been back for 2 games and Stevie has been awful.
In fact, he's been awful for the past 3 years but I get lambasted for that.
Look at Kenny's first half season at the start 2011 - look how well we played when Stevie was injured. Goals, wins and points. Brilliant.
Then look at second half of 2012 - we may not have had the results but we were still in touching distance of 4th and played great football.
Stevie comes back for 2012 - we didn't get the results and performances sufffered, and only up until a month ago, we had only won 2 homes games all season. Is it a coincidence?
posted on 11/12/12
*
That should read:
Then look at second half of 2011 - we may not have had the results but we were still in touching distance of 4th and played great football.
Page 2 of 4