cheese salad sarnies and a chicken cup a soup.

Mmm

I agree with your logic Darkskies. This Celtic team and squad will be capable of qualifying for the final 16 in the CL next season.

maheed - I think both OF teams could qualify from the CL group stages. The question I am asking is why has it become such an orthodoxy that we can't when an average Celtic team with an average manager done it twice?

It must be a Walter Myth then because too many berz are spouting this pash?

Darkskies: I accept your points but have a couple i'd like to add that may explain our pessimism.

- Celtic were 2nd pot seeds on at least one occassion they qualified, i.e. they were expected too. Next year if Celtic qualify they will be 4th pot seeds.

-Celtic qualified twice on a magnificent home record. That has gone in recent seasons (in group games in the CL and EL) and with the seeding situation, see above, is hard to see coming back.

-Celtic had some trully decent players at that time, Boruc and Nakamura being prime examples and absent in your OP.

-Clubs all over Europe have improved as larger TV revenues in bigger countries have allowed them to spend more than Scottish clubs can. Look at Turkey as an example (ignoring the corruption allegations which does not alter the collective wealth the clubs have got through TV rights).

-Celtic enjoyed fortune on more than one occassion. For example, against Man Utd they pummelled you first half but could not brak through. The Jarosik free kick could easily have not been given though the kick by Nakamura was class not luck.

In short, for me yes Scottish teams can compete however it is increasingly hard to match the money for average players and we require a dose of good fortune in the games too.

great point mate...spot on. If WGS can do it with two bomb scares in central defence then Lenny can do it with this team...needs a top class goalie though...that's the missing link

if were having a serious debate, heres my thoughts.

I understand what darkskies is saying, that wgs team wasnt anything special, but the flipside is mon's teams were good but couldnt do anything in the champ league beyond the group stages.

1st things 1st tho bhoys, you need to get into the champ league, which you havent been since what 2007 or 2008?. THEN, you can start to dream of getting by the group stages.

westend - nice to see you've got past your celtic/paedo allusions from the other day. welcome back to humanity.

I take your point about pot 2. you are correct, however more often than not when qualifying both OF will be the 3rd seeds.

Celtic still have a decent home record and last season won both our home games despite not being ready for European football. So that is not a worry for Celtic or us fans.

Yes Celtic had one or two good players, but imo we have a far better first team than we had then and instead of having 3 good players now we only have to find 3 more to have a cracking team.

Yes other leagues spend more than us, but if a club is willing to spend £50k a week on a player like Miller then that is hardly money well spent. If anything having more money to spend almost as a rule means you get less value for it.

Thats right we did have some fortune. But remember we played the current champions in both stages. We had the likes of Barca, Man Utd, and AC everytime we were there. That might be considered unfortunate to come up against the very very best almost without fail.

This current Celtic team is the best we have had since MON and is a hairs breadth away from being better than it. In Lenny we trust

darkskies - i think you may well be doing o'neils team a disservice there.

The current team havent even won the league yet, never mind being close to o'neils team.

perhaps IE but it is my opinion that our current team has more strength in depth than O'neil's it just lacks a wee bit of quality in key areas.

Well Ibrox, you know that Celtic are Champions in Waiting so it won't be long before we have a crack at the CL

i agree with ibrox here, i think your doing mons team a great dis-service.

Larsson v Hooper = Larsson
Hartson / Sutton vs Samaras / Stokes / Murphy = Hartson / Sutton
Petrov vs Brown (based on the reason we signed Brown was as a box to box, tireless midfielder) = Petrov
Lennon vs Kayal = Lennon (for me, Kayal has to be consistant this coming season aswell to win this one)

I could go on, but i think it we look player vs player, mons team will just shade it.

Id duly love to be proved wrong tho, and in Lennon i trust :D

I do agree though that this is definately the best team weve saw since MON and it can only get better!

fair do's darkskies.

You certainly have strength in depth, but imo , current celtic team is nowhere near mon's.

Imo, only players that would make matchday squad of 18 in o'neils day are

hooper (sub)
izzy lb
commons (sub)

i dont honestly see any others.

heed - im sure i was told that on 606 last season...

And the season before

etc



far too early to say.

Celtic qualified twice on a magnificent home record. That has gone in recent seasons (in group games in the CL and EL) ----

neil lennons home record in europe is 100%

& the record was obliterated by BTM.. everyone knows how we felt about his tenure in charge

the way i look at it is, which players from the current team could play in that ONiel team without weakening it - hooper, stokes, kayal, ledley, commons, izzy, ki, wilson m, wilson k.

And remember we had players like sylla, guppy, varga, petta etc etc etc under Oniel who weren't anything special but made many appearances for the team.

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it's not arrogance, that's your prejudices colouring the facts. In actual fact it is belief. Belief in our manager, belief in our players, belief in our board and belief in our club.

DSOI-

I think the word to best describe the reporting of the Glasgow clubs' exploits in ECL is apathetic,to say the least.

With regards to team comparisms you appear to omit O'Neil from the equation.he is a master team builder.His team had balance,competence in ALL positions,belief in what Martin told them and an untiring unity in the cause.
Strachan should have set about building a new team,making his own mark if you like.Celtic didn't back him further.
It is easier to hide in Lennon's team.He will instill most of O'Neils ethics if he is not already on his way to doing so.
Good article imo.

just checked back. lost all away games in the CL that year. drew with aalborg and man u at CP beat villareal = 5points. Wasn't 5 points a big improvement for you last season?

thanks Mordor

Why do Celtic fans seem to forget we got to the last 16 of the CL as well? They act like they did it first or something?

no one is forgetting anything mate. promise!

Until this current Celtic team win the league THEN go onto qualify for CL group stages then quite simply they will be inferiour to WGS teams. MONs Celtic were a tad unlucky not to qualify as in some cases not even 9 points qualifies you to knockout stages.
In regards to Scottish clubs' bragging rights in CL then Celtic surely have the best record, yes? Over and above that in their respective campaigns in CL they beat the Man Us Milans Portos Juventus Ajax Benficas Lyons to name but a few. Hail Hail