If fans want to protest then thats their right to do so, simple as that i for one understand their frustrations.
People on here can keep saying what they like about prem players and wages etc but the fact is we are virtually giving players away.
Where did all this debt come from? Its not like we signed top players on top wages etc and what happens when all our assetts are sold and we still have nothing to spend?
I seen that bloke on the news, personally someone being passionate about his club and the complete mess we are in i dont find embarrassing at all.
You might, but thats just your opinion.

KRO

I think at this moment in time the protest planned for tomorrow is a bit premature.

I don't trust this board as far as I could through them but I do understand that we need to get rid of players on premiership wages.

At this moment in time they have put the fear of adminstartion to one side and there is talk of at least two players coming in over the next couple of days.

If Yueng is proven guilty then I believe that is the time for protest.

I would like this board to leave but I don't think they will
listen to any protest that are made tomorrow.

How many will actually turn up? Its ok 20,000 joing a facebook page but the same people joined the page for a march into town after the cup parade but only 100 people turned up. We have only sold about 6000 tickets for tomorrow, and only a small numebr of them will be at the protest. the protest serves no purpose if only a small number turn up!

As for the guy I central, I missed him as I am at work, I might get to see it later. So I won't pass judgement on him until I have watched it.

Comment deleted by Article Creator

Well at least we got some clarity......

Cuts had to be made thats a fact or life there is only 2 ways we would have been able to carry on without massive cuts.

1) Yeung and the board cover the losses that Relegation incurs, without selling any players that would have been looking at £30M+ Yeung does not have that cash to do that, and getting arrested he cant even if he wanted to.

2) Any losses are carried over to BIH and St Andrews Ground, no thanks

So cuts had to be made, If i won £160M on the Euro Millions and brought Yeungs shares for £12M before he was arrested then i would not be able to keep most of the players who are going now. Its a fact of relegation. Unless i wanted to see vast somes of my cash go up in smoke

The problem with Yeungs arrest is it means no cash flow, so while players was likely to be going anyway, they are now having to go regardless and for cheaper prices.

The whole situation as now shown that Yeung does not have the finances himself to pull of the dream he had, and his past as also landed us in trouble.

Yeung knows he needs investment, i am sure he knows he has bitten off more than he can chew but there is not much he can do about it now, not since getting arrested.

Had he not been arrested, i think getting investment would have been more easy, i think he would have found a way of rasing some cash via shifting of shares or more loans/debts which in the long run is not ideal.

Yeung knows he now has a lot of work to do to get the fans back on side, and thats if he is found not guility.

The best thing Yeung can do is find us a better more suited investor, or take a side step and allow someone else to come in and buy up a lot of shares.

Either way Yeung would know he can not continue as the main man and Chairman and thats if found not guilty.

If Yeungs is let off he faces a massive task to get fans back on side, and as we are fickle as fans are, the only way for him to gain face would be to invest heavy and not only get us promoted again over next 2 seasons but invest more than before to make a a stable midtable Prem Club.

Then fans would warm to him again.......

But the bottom line is does not have that cash to pull that off and no way can our club sustain the debts that would take.

The KiD

Comment deleted by Article Creator

As far as spending goes we did spend more than we normally do.

Under Sully and Gold we usually made about £6M in the Prem Profits.

Now dont forget how they did business they would sign a a player lets say his Name is ALBERT they would sign Albert for £6M but it would be £2.5M upfront £500K a season installments X3 provided we are in Prem and upto £500K a season apearence and performance based addons. So thats £2.5M + 3X £500K installlments for a Garunteed £4M + £2M addons.

They would offer Albert £25K a week plus £10K appearence bonus but place a relegation clause that is 50% pay cut so Albert would earn £12.5K and £5K appearence bonus if relegated.

All very sound way of doing things under S&G which means a outlay of £2.5M upfront. But this meant sometimes we missed out on players be that the clubs dont agree with our offer (Gijon over Michel) , or the player not keen on our relegation clause (Mido).

Under Yeung he come up with say £6M cash and £40K a week with no relegation clause this kind of deal gets Albert signed over the line.

But it means at least a cost of £6M for the season and £2M wages a season regardless of relegation.

Albert signed under S&G would be £2.5M outlay and at least £1.3M wages (halved if relegated).

What i am saying is if under S&G players was signed for cash upfront and we signed some higher wage earners (Zigic, Benley, Hleb and Martins). then the usual £6M profit would become losses

The KiD

Ok i get bored with all this whose right and whose wrong.
Bottom line is at the moment we are selling players on the cheap to pay debts at the club which keep mounting up because we have no other cash flow.
So what happens when our assetts have been sold off which wont take too long.
Yeung is only in court on aug 11th its not his trial that coulsd drag on for months or even years so now what?
We are even making office staff redundant to save wages, but no worries there is no crisis?? The sheer naivety of some fans is mind boggling.
And my point is not all fans are swalloeing this rubbish pannu spouts as hes just yeungs mouthpiece.

Comment deleted by Article Creator

We will see whose right and whose wrong soon enough, but i tell you one thing it will be the fans that suffer at the end of the day not all this shower using us to line their own pockets.
We are worried about where our club is heading, so fair play to the fella they interviewed on the news at least he shows some passion.
And whats more who cares what the players think if theres a protest? Its aint their club either it belongs to us, cos when theyve all gone and these lot have took every penny they can out of the club its the fans that are left to pick up the pieces as usual.

KRO

You cant blame the fans for being frustrated, its not that long ago everything looked hunky dory... now its all gone wrong and we, at best, will be in the championship for 3 years or so.

Plus we have to read the constant drivel from those sckumbags who just crawled out from under their slimey rock...

Thats life unfortunately...

"Bottom line is at the moment we are selling players on the cheap to pay debts at the club which keep mounting up because we have no other cash flow."

Thats spot on the money

We have no income apart from say £5M season ticket sales, hence we had to sell for cheap.

But the season is not far off that means gates, it means merchandise it also means TV payments and Sponsors and yes that cash will not be great and will be on a weekly basis.

But we also have £8M lump sum, and if Foster, Zigic, Dann, Jerome and Ridgewell go i think thats going to be at least £15M income cash from those, unless we get very desperate.

I dont think that means that £23M will be invested on player fees, i do think we would then be able to bring in free agents and loans. More important those players would shave at least £4.8M off the wage bill (thats if Jerome/Dann/Ridgewell have relegation clauses) or else its over £6M off the wage bill.

This is when the Banks/FA will decide if Blues are let off with any debts/payments untill after Yeungs case so as that the club has some income to run and build a sqaud.

As otherwise our club will either go into Administration or be left with a bare thin sqaud and potential relegation or a combination of the above.

The KiD

KBM

I dont think the FA or the Banks will allow Yeung to use money to pocket himself.

There is no proof of such, some fans thought thats all Sully and Gold ever did was just rake us in for cash for themselves.

The only time S&G really pocketed cash off us was when they made all that money from selling Blues.

I am trying to be realisitc as possible as far as the trouble we are in, on the negative side would be that the Parachutes, Players cash will all go into Yeungs banks and Laudered away and then St Andrews will be sold for Land.

I just cant see that happening.

The KiD

I dont think the FA or the Banks will allow Yeung to use money to pocket himself

- - - - - - - - - -

Yea thats a fact so step forward ryan yeung give him a place on the board?? at his age wonder why that was???

KRO

Its a very strange one and i dont understand it.

So you think as with many others that the entire team will be sold apart from new signings, youth players and maybe the likes of Fahey and Mutch.

Then any cash made will not go to cover running of the club, it will not go into the team, it will not cover debts that it and Parachutes will only be going into Yeungs back pocket.

If thats the case this club will come end of the season be in over £60M worth of debts, the clubs debts would be more than the club is worth. And the banks will pull the plug and then sell St Andrews off to make what they can.

So the only thing left with Blues would be the fans, and cheap merchandise for sale at Car Booters and Ebay after the Club Shop is Shut.

Just how bad do you think its going to be....

We just dont know, i am not saying its going to be rosey.

I am just facing facts we could say see likes of Foster, Ridgewell, Dann, Jerome and Zigic out.

And the likes of say Myhill, MCartney, Kilgallon, Jones etc in.

Not those players out, money in Yeungs pocket and no one at all in

If thats the case we may aswell start planing to restart Small Heath Alliance in the None Leagues

The KiD

"If thats the case we may aswell start planing to restart Small Heath Alliance in the None Leagues"

Can I play in goal?

No banjo i think anybody at the club is for sale so if an offer came in for mutch or redmond they would be sold so long as the money was decent.
And im not saying it goes into yeungs back pocket at all, im saying we are servicing his debts because it wasnt him that paid 80mill for our club when he bought it, it was us! Thats my point hes only got our club on loans and deals with unknown investors who want their money back.
Why is it then that yeung owns less than 30% of our club yet when he gets nicked there is no other investment from anywhere to try and keep a team capable of going back up.
Yes certain players had to go but weve made no effort to try and keep anybody worth anything.
And all this talk of promotion or play-offs is cloud cuckoo land.
We will be trying to stay up and after theyve sold all the players from under hughton and hes brought freebies in etc through no money to spend, the fans will get frustrated crowds will drop and as more and more fans turn against the board they will sack the manager as though its his fault.
Now you dont have to agree with any of what i think its simply my opinion.

KRO

Oh by the way, david jones wont be signing hes turned down a new contract at wolves which would have been a lot more than we would be offering, unles he fancies a fiver an hour.
And whoever mentioned carew needs his head testing, we wont be paying anywhere near the wages he would want.

KRO

all your points are spot on but at the end of the day we are stuck until after Yeungs court case. So please explain what would be achieved by protesting outside the ground, we just end up looking as pathetic as the Vile fans did a few weeks ago and where did it get them. Do people honestly think Pannu and Yeung do not know how we feel...do you believe they will look at a few hundred fans chanting 'Sack th Board' and suddenly think 'Oh Dear we better sell up, swallow our not incosiderable losses and go back home to China' .....Err No i think not!
So as stated it serves absolutely no purpose whatsover other than give fuel to people who want to knock us further...Oh and to make the players think 'what the hell have i walked into here! '

"No banjo i think anybody at the club is for sale so if an offer came in for mutch or redmond they would be sold so long as the money was decent"

I agree if we got a offer for Mutch and Redmond thats worth while we would sell, especially if we cant shift high earners off the books.

End of the day you made a good point, Yeungs shares in our club are worth £12M the £40M he claims to have invested is not going to be cash, and from his bank its most likely all loans that are placed on BIH

We dont know who the other 74% share holders are, maybe they could be Yeung in different names If not then they should stand up and be heard as Yeung is basically burning their investment and flushing it down the toilet.

The Banks will step in, they will look at what Yeung/BIH owes compared to what is stake is and will then take his shares off him and put them up for sale.

Just as if you miss to many payments on your £20K Car then you kiss it good bye, and it dont matter if you paid £5K plus 2 years of the £3K a year installments that £11K you paid will be gone and you wont get a penny.

The best thing is now what happens when we can have BIH back on the stock market, as its in the best interest of HSBC that that happens rather than it not.

Yeung who cares once things start to fit in place his 26% stake will be meaningless especially if he is guilty.

Untill then the club has to service its debts but this is then when the creditors mainly HSBC need to ask to they asset strip and for cheap and reduce the chance of this club making any money back or do they allow us to be able to make some signings as far as to actually keep the club afloat and sustain its Championship Status.

This area is unknown and a worry but i guess we should know more at some point.

Seems Yeungs arrest as made some investors/sponsors distance themselves from BIH, but also there is rumours that a investor wants to take part and Yeung wants investment but at the moment Yeungs shares can no be traded and the other BIH shares are on ICE.

Once they are on the market then hopefully we can see some light at the end of the tunnel but i am only going to expect enough to keep the club as a Championship side and no more.

So dont expect no Billionare and no more big pledges and make us big in China lark

The KiD

I think Yeung will be going anyway, i dont think he would get off scot free.

I think it depends how stubborn he is, and if he is prepared to see the club go up in smoke just to save face.

If he stays he is not going to make back what he has paid, not with investment from others who may not want to do se with him on board.

Yeung is in a no win situation.

The best he can hope for is that BIH shares are allowed to be sold apart from his at some point and that some other Investor or consortium buy up 30% or more of BIH shares and take on the debts and Yeung has to side step from the running of Blues and concentrate on the marketing side in China.

Right now Yeung faces maybe having to accept lossing his stake in Blues for nothing. As his worst case.

The other silent share holders will have to face, only getting 1/3rd of what they paid for the club maybe less.

And any new investor will have to face paying out about £40M for our club and take car of £30M+ debts. Plus interest.

The KiD

foreverblue
A protest will at least show how a lot of the fans are feeling and im not bothered about the other lot up the road and im not bothered what the players think.
Players arent stupid they dont care as long as they get their wages every week.
And why are we stuck with yeung til after the courtcase? Not necessarily because theres nothing to stop them putting the club up for sale he doesnt own it. he owns less than 30% the banks want money back we dont even know who the other investors are, how else are the fans going to make themselves heard?
Its been happening at football clubs for years bigger and more global than ours.
I seem to remember the liverpool fans protesting about hicks and gillett, i dont remember thinking they were muppets i felt like most other people that they have a right to do what they like cos bottom line.
Its their club!!


KRO

BIH shares are suspended on the HK stock exhange so they could not sell now even if Bill Gates wanted to buy the Club

Yeung wants investment, Panu said club should not be effected but by having its shares frozen then that means only cash flow has to come from within Birmingham City FC and not BIH.

Hopefully once the BIH are allowed to trade we can see some investment but untill then, its a case of seeing the club (not Yeung, not BIH) but BCFC doing what ever it can to keep the ship afloat.

Offcourse maybe thats not the case, and even though Yeungs assets are frozen and BIH shares aswell, any money made by the club will just go

I however beleave it will have to be ballanced by paying off debts/losses and running the club.

The KiD

You are right banjo that BIH shares are suspended but thats just to stop the stock dropping.
The shares are not frozen like yeungs personal assets, if that was the case we wouldnt be able to sell players, theres nothing to stop them putting the club up for sale as its just another assett of BIH.
This is according to peter knowles the other day who is a financial expert.
What do i know? But i do know yeung can be bought out whether his personal assets are frozen or not, because we are not one of his assets, he only owns 26% and thats borrowed money against the club and surrounding land, nothing to stop HSBC calling in their debt.

KRO

If thats the case then we know Yeung wants investment,

Its not a case of

1) Can anyone buy shares

2) Is Yeung prepared to sell or is other shareholders.

3) Is there anyone who wants to invest in us.

We have to hope its yes to all 3

The KiD

Yea exactly, the biggest problem is finding investors while all this is going on with carson yeung, whose going to want to deal with him?
But it seems pretty obvious something needs to happen, we just cant carry on the way we are going with this bloke.
None of us know how long his courtcase will go on for and when it will all come to an end, and even when it does he could very well be in jail.
They need to be more transparent, we need to know who has the rest of the shares in BIH etc, and what the intentions are and if pannu thinks a halfarsed statement telling us all its ok, like we are all 6yr olds is going to work hes mental.

KRO