"What makes Suarez the player he is today is that he will do absolutely anything to win, his grit and determination would be admirable if it wasn't so frequently repugnant.

Talent wise, he is not on the same level as RVP or Aguero in my opinion - I'm still of the view that RVP is (almost comfortably) the best striker in the league."

Kevin Nolan scores more than Silva. I guess it's not ridiculous to say they're not that far apart then? Dempsey as well
---------------------------------------------------------------

Good point but in regards to Mata, he is creative AND scores goals. Ozil is more creative but scores less goals.

Remember we are talking about a player who has won player of the year at his club the past 2 seasons and has won a Champions League and and Europa League.

Ledley please do one.

Remember we are talking about a player who has won player of the year at his club the past 2 seasons and has won a Champions League and and Europa League.
------
Pascal Cygan won the Premier League going unbeaten. Doesn't make him as good as Ferdinand.

Pascal Cygan won the Premier League going unbeaten. Doesn't make him as good as Ferdinand.
-------------------------------------------------------------

Yes but did Pascal Cygan win player of the year 'twice' for his club.

Ledley please do one.
-----------------------------------

Do one of what?

Kevin Nolan scores more than
Silva. I guess it's not ridiculous to
say they're not that far apart
then? Dempsey as well
-------

No, you silly wum. Not even remotely comparable. Mata is an elite playmaker at the highest level. He's comparable to Ozil. Nolan is a small-time clogger who can score.

So you cant be a top player if you have grit and determination

We'll see who scores the most this season

But Nolan scores more than Silva, Sheriff. You're putting great emphasis on the amount of goals attacking mids score...what I'm telling you is it's not very important so long as you make up for it with your creativity in general.

People seem to disregard goals as an attribute from attacking midfielders as many people, particularly with regard to Gerrard and Lampard, would use it simply as an argument for being a better player than another - which is wrong, but people are going so far the other way that disregarding goals from an attacking midfielder is ridiculous.

Why was Kaka so good? Because he created AND scored plenty. Mata does the same, because he's a fantastic player.

Attacking midfielders should be influencing the game with more than just passes (that's what makes Cesc so class) as being able to score can give that player a big advantage in matches.

The great attacking players are the ones that score and create plenty, hence the names I mentioned.

However, you try to skirt round it, Dubbed. Scoring is a big part of a playmaker's game and not a "bonus". Particularly if you're a no 10 rather than a deep-lying playmaker like Pirlo. All the great no. 10's are pretty prolific infront of goal. You can't just disregard it.

Lol dubbed only called me clueless because he has a mad inferiority complex with me

Nobody can deny Mata is creative, he is Chelsea's most creative player. He is also amongst thier greatest goal threat.

Mata is comparable to Ozil and arguements can be made to say he is better, but I wouldn't agree with that id put them on par.

What? Ozil is twice the player. Not even close.
---

Ozil is not twice the player Mata is, don't be stupid. I rate Ozil higher in terms of creativity and finding the right final pass, but Mata, as has already been mentioned, is a bigger goal threat, which shouldn't be scoffed at.

Mata is so class I rate him so highly

So you cant be a top player if you have grit and determination
===================
Well you're missing the point I'm making -that a player's attitude and work rate can help raise their level beyond that of more talented players. RVP is, in my opinion, comfortably a better footballer than Suarez, and the best in the whole league, but the other qualities Suarez possess raised him almost to RVP's level recently.

But Nolan scores more than Silva,
Sheriff. You're putting great
emphasis on the amount of goals
attacking mids score
---------

I'm putting great emphasis on the total package - including goals. You're trying to disregard goals as an irrelevance, which is very wrong.

Nothing I do or say is wrong

''a player's attitude and work rate can help raise their level beyond that of more talented players.''

Very true

Sheriff, spot on.

People forget just how much Zidane was criticised, correctly, for his lack of goals even though he was an immense playmaker.

Players in that position are expected to score as well as they are ATTACKERS! This isn't to say it's the most important thing if they can make up for it but to disregard them is silly.

The number 10's I mentioned were the complete package, and there ability to score - which wins you games - is what put them ahead of the rest as well as their creativity.

Mata isn't in their class but his creativity and goal scoring ability makes him an elite attacker and very difficult to shackle as you don't know what he's going to do, same with Fabregas, who for me, is the best and most complete attacking midfielder in the world.

I agree that Dubbed underrates Suarez, but many overrate him

Ozil is the best in the world in his position

Iniesta