What does Jackie Stewart think I wonder?
NOODLES
welcome to the forum noodles --
having followed vettel"s career from day 1 it is hard to disagree with moss and all his vast experience , certainly agree with moss when he says vettel is on a different level to hamilton and button in fact i believe vettel to be a couple of levels above those two -
button is never going to match his pace and hamilton is light years away from ever matching vettels racecraft , tyre management and intelligence over a race distance
good link noodles and a very interesting read
Thanks for that Martial.
Your comments there look pretty insightful to me.
I note your reference to Seb's "intelligence". I think this is a key point, because one of the qualities that I think is overlooked in Vettel, is his understanding with the car. That understanding not only helps him to drive the stink out of the car he has on any given weekend, but it also plays a vital role in the development and constant improvement of the car.
I think Adrian Newey does a great job, but it's made that much easier, and the effects of it are that much more accelerated, by having a driver whose great feel and understanding of how the car is performing, and where its limits are, means that the car is evolving even while he's driving it.
noodles
you certainly know your F1 nood , i have always has a soft spot for the intelligent drivers and vettel is certainly that in and out of the car
--- and then some ,
must admit it gives me a genuine buzz watching a driver of real intelligence at work on a sunday afternoon
the most staggering thing is vettel is only 26 yrs old so is still improving on every level so we will probably not see the full extent of his abilities for another couple of years ,
would imagine all this is very disheartening for the other drivers in competitive machinery at the moment in f1 --
Comical
Noodles joins on 19th October and has to wait for Vettel to be assured of his 4th WDC before he praises him. Not only that, he has to dig up an article written after the 2011 season to support his view.
Is he a banned member returning? Seems like to me.
F1 no nothing numpties.
I invited one of the other no nothing numpties to state if they actually watched Vettel race and what impressed them about him. He replied that Vettel spoke English. Says it all really.
Gilles Villeneuve was considered to be a great driver yet he never won a WDC.
Michael Schumacher was being praised when he drove for Jordan. Hamilton was being praised when he was Go Karting. Vettel got beat by Paul Di Resta.
Now Vettel is praised by noodles who like CAL does not appear to be able to form an opinion of his own.
Clearly not all the members are quite as polite as Martial on here.
What a staggering - and ignorant - attack !
Can I ask, who you are to call Stirling Moss an "F1 no nothing numptie" ?
How many grand prixs have you won per chance ?
Why the constant need to big up Vettel by his 'fans'
Methinks you all doth protest too much, which means, he ain't that special
Ah! A returning banned user. Goodbye
It's, "Stirling", dummkopf.
Plainly, filtered by so many he is having to resort to talking to himself..
That is the sort of stupidity you get when an idiot talks to himself!
Another name to add to the filtered list.
Let's face it, there simply CANNOT be TWO people that stupid on Planet Earth.
I don't think Sir Stirling Moss said anything that we dont know about.
Vettel is surely on an entire different planet to either Button and Hamilton.
Uptill the last season I thought Alonso was equal to Vettel but this season Vettel has far surpassed him too.
The way he managed his tyres at Suzuka was amazing. He is virtually error free apart from the odd brushing against the opponent on turn one and has shown his overtaking skills this season. Look how long Webber took to overtake RoGro who was on older tyres. That for me was the turning point of the race.
For me Schumacher is the greatest driver of all time but I wont be surprised if Vettel overtakes his haul one day
Button wins world title with car fastest on grid for half a season = he's nothing, average
Vettel wins 4 titles with a car miles better than everyone bar a few races last year = great
Does not compute
Wayne, F1 is not an area you know a lot about. I would suggest you develop some competence before making outlandish comments.
Can you tell me the names of the race engineers for kimi, alonso and hamilton? We all know rocky, how come? What Vettel did in Japan was redbull tactics, screw webber to help vettel win. It was nothing special.
Vettel did not push the way Webber and Grosjean did and when he had clean air rocky instructed him as always to push. He had the hard tyres on and could afford to push hard without losing performance whilst webber was put on the medium that had a shorter operating window.
Vettel is probably the 5th best driver on the grid as we know what others can do when the odds are not stacked in their favour or have a team completely built around them with an average team mate. We have also seen what they can do when their cars are not the best on the grid.
Unfortunately for Seb (not his fault) there are question marks about his ability because when he cannot escape and is forced to battle he looks mediocre and attempts some amateurish moves only seen at go karts and crashes are barges innto people.
One day when he has the courage to try his luck elsewhere and can emulate similar performances, any lingering doubts will disappear and we will all come to appreciate his talents. For now the doubts remain and considering di resta and hamilton have beaten him in far more evenly matched cars, you can appreciate why most racing fans have doubts.
We'll see
Can you tell me the names of the race engineers for kimi, alonso and hamilton? We all know rocky, how come?
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Why does it matter?
In Korea when Hamilton couldnt get past Hulkenberg he went complaining to his race engineer. We all saw what happens when Massa decided to disobey team orders. Alonso couldnt get past for god knows how many laps him.
Vettel did not push the way Webber and Grosjean did and when he had clean air rocky instructed him as always to push. He had the hard tyres on and could afford to push hard without losing performance whilst webber was put on the medium that had a shorter operating window.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Hard or medium tires it doesnt matter. ROGro's tires were 16 laps older and yet Webber struggled to get past him. On the other hand Vettel had wasted no time.
Now unless you believe the conspiracy theory that Webber was sacrificed for Vettel which is nothing but nonsense.
Vettel is probably the 5th best driver on the grid as we know what others can do when the odds are not stacked in their favour or have a team completely built around them with an average team mate. We have also seen what they can do when their cars are not the best on the grid.
----------------------------------------------------------
Dont know if this is an wum attempt or anything.
Care to name me 4 better drivers than Vettel?
Alonso is number one at Ferrari and Hamilton at Mercedes. RBR dont have any team orders whilst Ferrari and Merc sacrifice their number two's for Alonso and Hammy.
You are probably brainwashed by the fans into thinking that Vettel is nothing without the car.
Another point - F1 is'nt about overtakes and going as fast as possible in a straight line. These days its about aero and tire management. If you think Hamiliton or Alonso are better than Vettel because they are faster and better overtakers (its not even true these days) then you should take up drag racing or NASCAR because thats where your favs will shine.
. For now the doubts remain and considering di resta and hamilton have beaten him in far more evenly matched cars, you can appreciate why most racing fans have doubts.
--------------------------------------------------------
Doesnt matter who does what at Rookie level. Surely you should know better. Or are you saying Di Resta is a better driver than Seb?
P.S - I am not even a Vettel fan.I support Kimi.
But I can accept what an accomplished driver Vettel is. For me he is the best driver (No matter what the SKY and media will try to feed you)
and no matter how much Alonso will try to convince you how poor his car is and how is doing a miracle by competing in that car.
Over and Out
what are " these question marks " against the ability of a 4x WDC and exactly who are " these most racing fans that have doubts "
stirling moss who has forgotten more than you will ever know has no doubts
you could"nt make this stuff up --
Sure, 4 better drivers than Vettel on the current grid are Alonso, Hamilton, Kimi, Hulkenberg. Screw that I was wrong, there are more; rosberg and button too.
Webber struggled to get past him because he was in the turbulent air and tyres with a lower performing window than the tyres Webber was on.
F1 has always been about tyre management but you knew how your tyres would degrade and could plan for this.
Alonso obviously makes a huge deal of his so called performance disadvantage and hamilton's mercedes does not have the race pace to match the redbulls.
Sky and the media big up vettel more than anyone here so I'm not sure where that comment comes from. We've had the bbc write 2 separate articles hyping vettel.
The rookie point is also irrelevant as hamilton an f1 rookie beat a double world champion.
Finally I did not say f1 is about drag racing and overtakes and that point is stupid. But to play your game, if you think F1 is about time trials which seb's currently is the master of, perhaps rallying and time trials are more to your tastes.
I have at no point belittled seb's championships, I have questioned his talent as most of the racing community does because of the superior car advantage he has.
Finally can someone explain to me why button's championship is down to his car advantage which only lasted a season but sebs championships, in the best car since mid 2009 is down to him?
That is not a logical argument.
Roger, roger!
That should be half a season for button
Sure, 4 better drivers than Vettel on the current grid are Alonso, Hamilton, Kimi, Hulkenberg. Screw that I was wrong, there are more; rosberg and button too.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Webber struggled to get past him because he was in the turbulent air and tyres with a lower performing window than the tyres Webber was on.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Webber pitted in the 42st lap that meant he had 13 more laps to go to make up 8 seconds or so on Vettel? Or are you saying those mediums wouldnt have lasted 13 laps? Nonsense if you are saying.
Look at Horner's comments on that -
“Our drivers were free to race each other. Mark closed on Grosjean pretty quickly but he didn’t pass him too quickly and that killed off any chance he had of challenging Sebastian. There was one lap where Mark got right into Sebastian’s slipstream but because he pushed the DRS button too early the flap didn’t open.”
Surely this is not Vettel's mistake.
Vettel also lost downforce earlier that race with the incident with Hammy and yet could manage such a great drive.
Again look at Horner's comments -
“Sebastian suffered some damage in the incident with Hamilton that took about 20 percentage points off the downforce on his car. He managed to adapt. He played the thinking game today; he watched and waited in that first stint. In the second stint he made his tyres go longer and further than any other driver. Then, when he needed to nail Grosjean, he did it immediately.”
Alonso obviously makes a huge deal of his so called performance disadvantage and hamilton's mercedes does not have the race pace to match the redbulls.
------------------------------------------------------------
Well even the illegal tire testing by Mercedes couldnt help them
So instead of blaming Vettel blame Ferrari and Mercedes' engineers for being so incompetent.
Or is it RBR's fault that their strategists and engineers do a competent job?
I have at no point belittled seb's championships, I have questioned his talent as most of the racing community does because of the superior car advantage he has.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
And which is this imaginary racing community you are talking about?
Almost every great driver of the past has come out in praises of Seb and called him the best. Now I will take their word over your definition of "racing community"
Sky and the media big up vettel more than anyone here so I'm not sure where that comment comes from. We've had the bbc write 2 separate articles hyping vettel.
------------------------------------------------------------------
This is just recently they have started bigging up Vettel once they have realized that their favs Hammy and Alonso stand no chance.
I take it you dont follow BBC's F1 expert Andrew Benson on twitter nor you follow his blogs. Not long ago his tweets and blogs used to be filled with spite against Vettel.
The rookie point is also irrelevant as hamilton an f1 rookie beat a double world champion.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Fair play to him. You bought up Di Resta's record against Vettel in the junior series or whatever its called. You still havent answered me if you think Di Resta is better than Vettel because he beat him in the same car god knows how many years ago
Finally can someone explain to me why button's championship is down to his car advantage which only lasted a season but sebs championships, in the best car since mid 2009 is down to him?
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Another myth. Apart from 2011 Vettel never had the best car. 2 out of the last 3 chapmionships have gone to the last race. Surely if Vettel had the "best car" he would have winded it early like he did it in 2011. Whose fault is it that Webber bottled it in 2009 and Alonso last year?
.
In 2009 and 2010 the redbull car had reliability issues. In 2012 the mclaren and the redbull were the class of the field until Newey turned the screw and they blew the rest of the field away. In 2010 since you believe the redbull was not the best car, who had the best car?
The fact the championships have gone to th last races is simply because Vettel is not all that. Webber, a mediocre drive was a botched pitstop away from the championship in 2010 ffs. In 2012 Vettel was able to erode a significant points tally as newey made significant improvements to the car and they had a hat trick of victories that took them ahead of Alonso.
I find it amusing you do not know that there are question marks about Vettel, that is why the bbc, sky and co do all they can to big him up but we know better.
Quoting Andrew Benson and suggesting he bashes Vettel is amusing. Benson is very pro button and always used to take digs at hamilton so often that his blogs were filled with complaints about his issues with hamilton, admittedly he has toned it down, now that hamilton contributes to the bbc.
I did not say Di Resta was better than Vettel, I said he beat him, which he did and that is why there are question marks about Vettel because I do not rate di resta at all.
I also would not quote horner who along with marko have destroyed webbers career and have always scuppered his chances at redbull. Read up how webber joined that team for info as this is another thing you are not informed of.
The redbull car is the fastest on the grid, since they have entered f1, they have won more than 50percent of the races they have competed in. That stat alone, tells you all you need to know.
It is not a myth but a fact my good man. In conclusion since you like quoting redbull folk, David Coulthard himself has said Seb will need to show the same level of performance elsewhere for him to be considered a true great.
"Vettel is probably the 5th best driver on the grid"
=====================================
Is this guy for real, or is this a wind up ?
comment by Noodles (U18740)
posted 2 minutes ago
"Vettel is probably the 5th best driver on the grid"
=====================================
Is this guy for real, or is this a wind up ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This guy is alright. He has an unnecesssary hatred towards Vettel
Everyone that matters acknowledges that Vettel is a great racer & future legend of the sport like Fangio, Senna & Schumacher.
It's just a few bitter individuals in the British press & people on internet forums that disagree. They have use silly things like the 2006 Formula 3 season whilst ignoring the last 4 seasons of F1 to justify their position.
No point in reasoning with them, they've made up their minds.
Lol I'm always surprised by how easily people get wound up on the internet. No wonder people wum, its such a easy way to pass time and get attention, especially easy on here I might add
For what its worth yes Vettel is a great driver, but given his car advantage he can't truly show his metal. However given his age he has plenty of time to prove the doubters wrong (or right I suppose )
I do not hate Vettel, I just do not think he is all that. Once he can replicate similar form in another team, I will bow down and worship him.
Mr drunken hobo you sound a lot like martial, what does nationality have to do with anything? The only brit I rate on the grid is hamilton, the rest are foreigners so I'm not sure what this claptrap about nationality has to woth anything.
Schumacher is also my favourite driver of all time. Not bad for a racist brit, who is half italian?
Numpty
"Schumacher won six of the first seven races and was leading the Spanish Grand Prix, before a gearbox failure left him stuck in fifth gear. Schumacher finished the race in second place.[38] Following the San Marino Grand Prix, the Benetton, Ferrari and McLaren teams were investigated on suspicion of breaking the FIA-imposed ban on electronic aids. Benetton and McLaren initially refused to hand over their source code for investigation. When they did so, the FIA discovered hidden functionality in both teams' software, but no evidence that it had been used in a race. Both teams were fined $100,000 for their initial refusal to cooperate. However, the McLaren software, which was a gearbox program that allowed automatic shifts, was deemed legal. By contrast, the Benetton software was deemed to be a form of "launch control" that would have allowed Schumacher to make perfect starts, which was explicitly outlawed by the regulations. However, there was no evidence to suggest that this software was actually used.[39] At the British Grand Prix, Schumacher was penalised for overtaking on the formation lap. He then ignored the penalty and the subsequent black flag, which indicates that the driver must immediately return to the pits, for which he was disqualified and later given a two-race ban. Benetton blamed the incident on a communication error between the stewards and the team.[40] Schumacher was also disqualified after winning the Belgian Grand Prix after his car was found to have illegal wear on its skidblock, a measure used after the accidents at Imola to limit downforce and hence cornering speed.[41] Benetton protested that the skidblock had been damaged when Schumacher spun over a kerb, but the FIA rejected their appeal because of the pattern of wear and damage visible on the block.[42] These incidents helped Damon Hill close the points gap, and Schumacher led by a single point going into the final race in Australia. On lap 36 Schumacher hit the guardrail on the outside of the track while leading. Hill attempted to pass but as Schumacher's car returned to the track there was a collision on the corner causing them both to retire.[43] As a result Schumacher won a very controversial championship"
Is that why he's your fave ? or is it his success in the ferrari ?
Sign in if you want to comment
Sterling Moss on Vettel
Page 1 of 2
posted on 19/10/13
What does Jackie Stewart think I wonder?
posted on 19/10/13
posted on 19/10/13
NOODLES
welcome to the forum noodles --
having followed vettel"s career from day 1 it is hard to disagree with moss and all his vast experience , certainly agree with moss when he says vettel is on a different level to hamilton and button in fact i believe vettel to be a couple of levels above those two -
button is never going to match his pace and hamilton is light years away from ever matching vettels racecraft , tyre management and intelligence over a race distance
good link noodles and a very interesting read
posted on 19/10/13
Thanks for that Martial.
Your comments there look pretty insightful to me.
I note your reference to Seb's "intelligence". I think this is a key point, because one of the qualities that I think is overlooked in Vettel, is his understanding with the car. That understanding not only helps him to drive the stink out of the car he has on any given weekend, but it also plays a vital role in the development and constant improvement of the car.
I think Adrian Newey does a great job, but it's made that much easier, and the effects of it are that much more accelerated, by having a driver whose great feel and understanding of how the car is performing, and where its limits are, means that the car is evolving even while he's driving it.
posted on 19/10/13
noodles
you certainly know your F1 nood , i have always has a soft spot for the intelligent drivers and vettel is certainly that in and out of the car
--- and then some ,
must admit it gives me a genuine buzz watching a driver of real intelligence at work on a sunday afternoon
the most staggering thing is vettel is only 26 yrs old so is still improving on every level so we will probably not see the full extent of his abilities for another couple of years ,
would imagine all this is very disheartening for the other drivers in competitive machinery at the moment in f1 --
posted on 19/10/13
Comical
Noodles joins on 19th October and has to wait for Vettel to be assured of his 4th WDC before he praises him. Not only that, he has to dig up an article written after the 2011 season to support his view.
Is he a banned member returning? Seems like to me.
F1 no nothing numpties.
I invited one of the other no nothing numpties to state if they actually watched Vettel race and what impressed them about him. He replied that Vettel spoke English. Says it all really.
Gilles Villeneuve was considered to be a great driver yet he never won a WDC.
Michael Schumacher was being praised when he drove for Jordan. Hamilton was being praised when he was Go Karting. Vettel got beat by Paul Di Resta.
Now Vettel is praised by noodles who like CAL does not appear to be able to form an opinion of his own.
posted on 19/10/13
Clearly not all the members are quite as polite as Martial on here.
What a staggering - and ignorant - attack !
Can I ask, who you are to call Stirling Moss an "F1 no nothing numptie" ?
How many grand prixs have you won per chance ?
posted on 19/10/13
Why the constant need to big up Vettel by his 'fans'
Methinks you all doth protest too much, which means, he ain't that special
posted on 19/10/13
Ah! A returning banned user. Goodbye
posted on 19/10/13
It's, "Stirling", dummkopf.
Plainly, filtered by so many he is having to resort to talking to himself..
That is the sort of stupidity you get when an idiot talks to himself!
Another name to add to the filtered list.
Let's face it, there simply CANNOT be TWO people that stupid on Planet Earth.
posted on 20/10/13
I don't think Sir Stirling Moss said anything that we dont know about.
Vettel is surely on an entire different planet to either Button and Hamilton.
Uptill the last season I thought Alonso was equal to Vettel but this season Vettel has far surpassed him too.
The way he managed his tyres at Suzuka was amazing. He is virtually error free apart from the odd brushing against the opponent on turn one and has shown his overtaking skills this season. Look how long Webber took to overtake RoGro who was on older tyres. That for me was the turning point of the race.
For me Schumacher is the greatest driver of all time but I wont be surprised if Vettel overtakes his haul one day
posted on 20/10/13
Button wins world title with car fastest on grid for half a season = he's nothing, average
Vettel wins 4 titles with a car miles better than everyone bar a few races last year = great
Does not compute
posted on 20/10/13
Wayne, F1 is not an area you know a lot about. I would suggest you develop some competence before making outlandish comments.
Can you tell me the names of the race engineers for kimi, alonso and hamilton? We all know rocky, how come? What Vettel did in Japan was redbull tactics, screw webber to help vettel win. It was nothing special.
Vettel did not push the way Webber and Grosjean did and when he had clean air rocky instructed him as always to push. He had the hard tyres on and could afford to push hard without losing performance whilst webber was put on the medium that had a shorter operating window.
Vettel is probably the 5th best driver on the grid as we know what others can do when the odds are not stacked in their favour or have a team completely built around them with an average team mate. We have also seen what they can do when their cars are not the best on the grid.
Unfortunately for Seb (not his fault) there are question marks about his ability because when he cannot escape and is forced to battle he looks mediocre and attempts some amateurish moves only seen at go karts and crashes are barges innto people.
One day when he has the courage to try his luck elsewhere and can emulate similar performances, any lingering doubts will disappear and we will all come to appreciate his talents. For now the doubts remain and considering di resta and hamilton have beaten him in far more evenly matched cars, you can appreciate why most racing fans have doubts.
We'll see
posted on 20/10/13
Can you tell me the names of the race engineers for kimi, alonso and hamilton? We all know rocky, how come?
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Why does it matter?
In Korea when Hamilton couldnt get past Hulkenberg he went complaining to his race engineer. We all saw what happens when Massa decided to disobey team orders. Alonso couldnt get past for god knows how many laps him.
Vettel did not push the way Webber and Grosjean did and when he had clean air rocky instructed him as always to push. He had the hard tyres on and could afford to push hard without losing performance whilst webber was put on the medium that had a shorter operating window.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Hard or medium tires it doesnt matter. ROGro's tires were 16 laps older and yet Webber struggled to get past him. On the other hand Vettel had wasted no time.
Now unless you believe the conspiracy theory that Webber was sacrificed for Vettel which is nothing but nonsense.
Vettel is probably the 5th best driver on the grid as we know what others can do when the odds are not stacked in their favour or have a team completely built around them with an average team mate. We have also seen what they can do when their cars are not the best on the grid.
----------------------------------------------------------
Dont know if this is an wum attempt or anything.
Care to name me 4 better drivers than Vettel?
Alonso is number one at Ferrari and Hamilton at Mercedes. RBR dont have any team orders whilst Ferrari and Merc sacrifice their number two's for Alonso and Hammy.
You are probably brainwashed by the fans into thinking that Vettel is nothing without the car.
Another point - F1 is'nt about overtakes and going as fast as possible in a straight line. These days its about aero and tire management. If you think Hamiliton or Alonso are better than Vettel because they are faster and better overtakers (its not even true these days) then you should take up drag racing or NASCAR because thats where your favs will shine.
. For now the doubts remain and considering di resta and hamilton have beaten him in far more evenly matched cars, you can appreciate why most racing fans have doubts.
--------------------------------------------------------
Doesnt matter who does what at Rookie level. Surely you should know better. Or are you saying Di Resta is a better driver than Seb?
P.S - I am not even a Vettel fan.I support Kimi.
But I can accept what an accomplished driver Vettel is. For me he is the best driver (No matter what the SKY and media will try to feed you)
and no matter how much Alonso will try to convince you how poor his car is and how is doing a miracle by competing in that car.
Over and Out
posted on 20/10/13
what are " these question marks " against the ability of a 4x WDC and exactly who are " these most racing fans that have doubts "
stirling moss who has forgotten more than you will ever know has no doubts
you could"nt make this stuff up --
posted on 20/10/13
Sure, 4 better drivers than Vettel on the current grid are Alonso, Hamilton, Kimi, Hulkenberg. Screw that I was wrong, there are more; rosberg and button too.
Webber struggled to get past him because he was in the turbulent air and tyres with a lower performing window than the tyres Webber was on.
F1 has always been about tyre management but you knew how your tyres would degrade and could plan for this.
Alonso obviously makes a huge deal of his so called performance disadvantage and hamilton's mercedes does not have the race pace to match the redbulls.
Sky and the media big up vettel more than anyone here so I'm not sure where that comment comes from. We've had the bbc write 2 separate articles hyping vettel.
The rookie point is also irrelevant as hamilton an f1 rookie beat a double world champion.
Finally I did not say f1 is about drag racing and overtakes and that point is stupid. But to play your game, if you think F1 is about time trials which seb's currently is the master of, perhaps rallying and time trials are more to your tastes.
I have at no point belittled seb's championships, I have questioned his talent as most of the racing community does because of the superior car advantage he has.
Finally can someone explain to me why button's championship is down to his car advantage which only lasted a season but sebs championships, in the best car since mid 2009 is down to him?
That is not a logical argument.
Roger, roger!
posted on 20/10/13
That should be half a season for button
posted on 20/10/13
Sure, 4 better drivers than Vettel on the current grid are Alonso, Hamilton, Kimi, Hulkenberg. Screw that I was wrong, there are more; rosberg and button too.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Webber struggled to get past him because he was in the turbulent air and tyres with a lower performing window than the tyres Webber was on.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Webber pitted in the 42st lap that meant he had 13 more laps to go to make up 8 seconds or so on Vettel? Or are you saying those mediums wouldnt have lasted 13 laps? Nonsense if you are saying.
Look at Horner's comments on that -
“Our drivers were free to race each other. Mark closed on Grosjean pretty quickly but he didn’t pass him too quickly and that killed off any chance he had of challenging Sebastian. There was one lap where Mark got right into Sebastian’s slipstream but because he pushed the DRS button too early the flap didn’t open.”
Surely this is not Vettel's mistake.
Vettel also lost downforce earlier that race with the incident with Hammy and yet could manage such a great drive.
Again look at Horner's comments -
“Sebastian suffered some damage in the incident with Hamilton that took about 20 percentage points off the downforce on his car. He managed to adapt. He played the thinking game today; he watched and waited in that first stint. In the second stint he made his tyres go longer and further than any other driver. Then, when he needed to nail Grosjean, he did it immediately.”
Alonso obviously makes a huge deal of his so called performance disadvantage and hamilton's mercedes does not have the race pace to match the redbulls.
------------------------------------------------------------
Well even the illegal tire testing by Mercedes couldnt help them
So instead of blaming Vettel blame Ferrari and Mercedes' engineers for being so incompetent.
Or is it RBR's fault that their strategists and engineers do a competent job?
I have at no point belittled seb's championships, I have questioned his talent as most of the racing community does because of the superior car advantage he has.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
And which is this imaginary racing community you are talking about?
Almost every great driver of the past has come out in praises of Seb and called him the best. Now I will take their word over your definition of "racing community"
Sky and the media big up vettel more than anyone here so I'm not sure where that comment comes from. We've had the bbc write 2 separate articles hyping vettel.
------------------------------------------------------------------
This is just recently they have started bigging up Vettel once they have realized that their favs Hammy and Alonso stand no chance.
I take it you dont follow BBC's F1 expert Andrew Benson on twitter nor you follow his blogs. Not long ago his tweets and blogs used to be filled with spite against Vettel.
The rookie point is also irrelevant as hamilton an f1 rookie beat a double world champion.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Fair play to him. You bought up Di Resta's record against Vettel in the junior series or whatever its called. You still havent answered me if you think Di Resta is better than Vettel because he beat him in the same car god knows how many years ago
Finally can someone explain to me why button's championship is down to his car advantage which only lasted a season but sebs championships, in the best car since mid 2009 is down to him?
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Another myth. Apart from 2011 Vettel never had the best car. 2 out of the last 3 chapmionships have gone to the last race. Surely if Vettel had the "best car" he would have winded it early like he did it in 2011. Whose fault is it that Webber bottled it in 2009 and Alonso last year?
.
posted on 20/10/13
In 2009 and 2010 the redbull car had reliability issues. In 2012 the mclaren and the redbull were the class of the field until Newey turned the screw and they blew the rest of the field away. In 2010 since you believe the redbull was not the best car, who had the best car?
The fact the championships have gone to th last races is simply because Vettel is not all that. Webber, a mediocre drive was a botched pitstop away from the championship in 2010 ffs. In 2012 Vettel was able to erode a significant points tally as newey made significant improvements to the car and they had a hat trick of victories that took them ahead of Alonso.
I find it amusing you do not know that there are question marks about Vettel, that is why the bbc, sky and co do all they can to big him up but we know better.
Quoting Andrew Benson and suggesting he bashes Vettel is amusing. Benson is very pro button and always used to take digs at hamilton so often that his blogs were filled with complaints about his issues with hamilton, admittedly he has toned it down, now that hamilton contributes to the bbc.
I did not say Di Resta was better than Vettel, I said he beat him, which he did and that is why there are question marks about Vettel because I do not rate di resta at all.
I also would not quote horner who along with marko have destroyed webbers career and have always scuppered his chances at redbull. Read up how webber joined that team for info as this is another thing you are not informed of.
The redbull car is the fastest on the grid, since they have entered f1, they have won more than 50percent of the races they have competed in. That stat alone, tells you all you need to know.
It is not a myth but a fact my good man. In conclusion since you like quoting redbull folk, David Coulthard himself has said Seb will need to show the same level of performance elsewhere for him to be considered a true great.
posted on 20/10/13
"Vettel is probably the 5th best driver on the grid"
=====================================
Is this guy for real, or is this a wind up ?
posted on 20/10/13
comment by Noodles (U18740)
posted 2 minutes ago
"Vettel is probably the 5th best driver on the grid"
=====================================
Is this guy for real, or is this a wind up ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This guy is alright. He has an unnecesssary hatred towards Vettel
posted on 20/10/13
Everyone that matters acknowledges that Vettel is a great racer & future legend of the sport like Fangio, Senna & Schumacher.
It's just a few bitter individuals in the British press & people on internet forums that disagree. They have use silly things like the 2006 Formula 3 season whilst ignoring the last 4 seasons of F1 to justify their position.
No point in reasoning with them, they've made up their minds.
posted on 20/10/13
Lol I'm always surprised by how easily people get wound up on the internet. No wonder people wum, its such a easy way to pass time and get attention, especially easy on here I might add
For what its worth yes Vettel is a great driver, but given his car advantage he can't truly show his metal. However given his age he has plenty of time to prove the doubters wrong (or right I suppose )
posted on 20/10/13
I do not hate Vettel, I just do not think he is all that. Once he can replicate similar form in another team, I will bow down and worship him.
Mr drunken hobo you sound a lot like martial, what does nationality have to do with anything? The only brit I rate on the grid is hamilton, the rest are foreigners so I'm not sure what this claptrap about nationality has to woth anything.
Schumacher is also my favourite driver of all time. Not bad for a racist brit, who is half italian?
Numpty
posted on 20/10/13
"Schumacher won six of the first seven races and was leading the Spanish Grand Prix, before a gearbox failure left him stuck in fifth gear. Schumacher finished the race in second place.[38] Following the San Marino Grand Prix, the Benetton, Ferrari and McLaren teams were investigated on suspicion of breaking the FIA-imposed ban on electronic aids. Benetton and McLaren initially refused to hand over their source code for investigation. When they did so, the FIA discovered hidden functionality in both teams' software, but no evidence that it had been used in a race. Both teams were fined $100,000 for their initial refusal to cooperate. However, the McLaren software, which was a gearbox program that allowed automatic shifts, was deemed legal. By contrast, the Benetton software was deemed to be a form of "launch control" that would have allowed Schumacher to make perfect starts, which was explicitly outlawed by the regulations. However, there was no evidence to suggest that this software was actually used.[39] At the British Grand Prix, Schumacher was penalised for overtaking on the formation lap. He then ignored the penalty and the subsequent black flag, which indicates that the driver must immediately return to the pits, for which he was disqualified and later given a two-race ban. Benetton blamed the incident on a communication error between the stewards and the team.[40] Schumacher was also disqualified after winning the Belgian Grand Prix after his car was found to have illegal wear on its skidblock, a measure used after the accidents at Imola to limit downforce and hence cornering speed.[41] Benetton protested that the skidblock had been damaged when Schumacher spun over a kerb, but the FIA rejected their appeal because of the pattern of wear and damage visible on the block.[42] These incidents helped Damon Hill close the points gap, and Schumacher led by a single point going into the final race in Australia. On lap 36 Schumacher hit the guardrail on the outside of the track while leading. Hill attempted to pass but as Schumacher's car returned to the track there was a collision on the corner causing them both to retire.[43] As a result Schumacher won a very controversial championship"
Is that why he's your fave ? or is it his success in the ferrari ?
Page 1 of 2