What's Gibbs have to do to get a game? Hodgson said about giving young players a chance yet Gibbs can't buy his way in. I guess like all other managers before him he too has his favourites.
I'd like to see Baines play left wing with Gibbs at LB?
Who else would you have in midfield in a friendly game. In fact in any game. Keep in mind that England are worse than rubbish.
I'd like to see Baines play left back with a left winger ahead of him,rather than the assortment of playershe has played with up till now.
Baines's natural attacking play and overlapping is being stifled by the choice of players being made by Roy to play in front of him
comment by Moistthighs (U3249)
posted 13 minutes ago
Being harsh but (imo) fair, I think the main problem is simple;
The likes of Carrick, Cleverly and co are decent and in some cases very good at Prem level. However, for whatever reason, they're just NOT international footballers and it's as clear as day to see that when they pull on an England shirt.
As well as looking uncomfortable on the ball (I'm singling out the midfielders here), they actually cut very nervous figures & look visibly unsure of themselves, their ability & the abilities of the players around them. Overwhelmed even...
I appreciate this all sounds pretty intense and is very harsh criticism, but in the cold light of day, it's hard to argue that most of these players simply aren't good enough and there's no evidence to suggest that this is going to change! Agreeable?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Whilst this is true of Carrick and Cleverley, as Dunk ponted out, almost every single player in the England squad can be classed in the same boat. It's probably true that for club sides English players are playing with players (non-English) that are better than the players they get to play with at international level.
Just taking Walcott as an example (not singling him out on purpose), for Arsenal I think he got 20 goals and around 15 assist last season, and something approaching that the season before. But for England, I think he's looked pretty clueless, like many more. Completely symptomatic when it comes to playing for England.
I don't think its just a technique thing, quite often its an intelligence thing. How often do we see opposition teams pass and move it around, outmaneuvering England? When England have possession how often do we see players pass it and stand around, or struggle to find a passing option?
The longer the likes of Roy and Capello before him do that the longer England's national team will suffer
---
To be fair to Roy, we've seen very little of Gerrard/Lampard as a duo since the Euros and we've seen a fair bit more Carrick, Wilshere, Cleverley & others - usually accompanying Gerrard.
Baines is a very average defender. How moyes thinks he's better than Evra is anyone's guess.
I don't think its just a technique thing, quite often its an intelligence thing
-------------------
It's neither, really, the basic problem is that we don't have enough players playing at the same club day in day out, you just can't play the same way, knowing instinctively where to go or what run to make. In my opinion this is more important than straight-out ability.
If Walcott had the Arsenal midfield playing behind him for England he'd play the same football, he doesn't he has a mismatch of players from different clubs.
comment by Arsene Wengooner (U6031)
Got to agree with what you say.The premiership does seem to have more managers with different playing philosophies than any other top flight league in the World.
People are overrating Germany a little.
They have many superb players but they concede a lot of goals and it won't be their strongest side out either.
If Gerrard and Rooney play well we can beat anyone, irrespective of the make up of the rest of the team.
Chile were very good the other night, qualified well for the World Cup and have been a good side for a few years now.
They were underestimated by fans against an experimental England side, now an experimental Germany side are being overrated against a reasonably strong England line up.
Not saying we will win, but I am going to the game and am certainly not expecting us to get hammered.
England's weakness is at the back. Germany's strength is going forward. This can end only one way.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Carrick when played has never let england down, and to say international football is another level is total rollocks......its shitteee! If a player has excelled in the champions league he is a top player and carrick has impressed over 7 seasons so i would say hes very comfortable on the ball and is a top player full stop
England will beat Germany and people will go on about how it's just a friendly...
comment by A Concerned Red Devil (U1429)
posted 11 seconds ago
Carrick when played has never let england down
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Said no-one, ever. Montenegro away was a fine example of his terrible play in an England shirt.
we have no depth
most of the players in the England side wouldn't have gotten within a mile of the side 5 years ago but it's all we've got now so they're even starters at times
I actually rate Cleverly is he's very good on the ball and has got good stamina. He can't pass though..
To be fair, the midfield would have had no chance under the Gerrard-Lampard era. They were too good at club level to drop.
And Gerrard is still a top creator. Most assists in the league and created most chances. He just needs someone to do most of the dirty work and help him keep the ball. Then you'd have a top/dangerous player.
Gerrard is still a key player for England, as proven against Chile when we created barely anything.
He is underrated because of his age.
What I find strange is that for all the rhetoric about England players being taught to be physical and get stuck in we don't have actually have a recognised ball winner in the middle of the pitch.
The closest we have is Jones and he's a cb.
Very true Darren.
Chile had two the another night in Ruiz? The Basle player, and Medel who was out of position at centre half.
I actually think Cattermole is an underrated player. He gets stick because of consistent red cards, but many other nations have such a player (Ramos, Medel as two examples).
He is very good at his job of winning it and playing it simple.
I hate Lee Clattermole with a passion.
Why?
I have seen him live and his positioning and leadership are excellent.
Yes he can be a dirty so and so but virtually every winning team has one.
Not saying he should be an England regular or anything but if we need a ball winner he should be given a chance.
I just think he's a crap footballer and a thug.
Can't agree at all.
Medel had 7 red cards in two seasons for Sevilla.
Ramos has been sent off 17 times
Cattermole has 7 reds but has been playing regularly since 17.
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Page 3 of 4
posted on 18/11/13
What's Gibbs have to do to get a game? Hodgson said about giving young players a chance yet Gibbs can't buy his way in. I guess like all other managers before him he too has his favourites.
I'd like to see Baines play left wing with Gibbs at LB?
posted on 18/11/13
Who else would you have in midfield in a friendly game. In fact in any game. Keep in mind that England are worse than rubbish.
posted on 18/11/13
I'd like to see Baines play left back with a left winger ahead of him,rather than the assortment of playershe has played with up till now.
Baines's natural attacking play and overlapping is being stifled by the choice of players being made by Roy to play in front of him
posted on 18/11/13
comment by Moistthighs (U3249)
posted 13 minutes ago
Being harsh but (imo) fair, I think the main problem is simple;
The likes of Carrick, Cleverly and co are decent and in some cases very good at Prem level. However, for whatever reason, they're just NOT international footballers and it's as clear as day to see that when they pull on an England shirt.
As well as looking uncomfortable on the ball (I'm singling out the midfielders here), they actually cut very nervous figures & look visibly unsure of themselves, their ability & the abilities of the players around them. Overwhelmed even...
I appreciate this all sounds pretty intense and is very harsh criticism, but in the cold light of day, it's hard to argue that most of these players simply aren't good enough and there's no evidence to suggest that this is going to change! Agreeable?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Whilst this is true of Carrick and Cleverley, as Dunk ponted out, almost every single player in the England squad can be classed in the same boat. It's probably true that for club sides English players are playing with players (non-English) that are better than the players they get to play with at international level.
Just taking Walcott as an example (not singling him out on purpose), for Arsenal I think he got 20 goals and around 15 assist last season, and something approaching that the season before. But for England, I think he's looked pretty clueless, like many more. Completely symptomatic when it comes to playing for England.
I don't think its just a technique thing, quite often its an intelligence thing. How often do we see opposition teams pass and move it around, outmaneuvering England? When England have possession how often do we see players pass it and stand around, or struggle to find a passing option?
posted on 18/11/13
The longer the likes of Roy and Capello before him do that the longer England's national team will suffer
---
To be fair to Roy, we've seen very little of Gerrard/Lampard as a duo since the Euros and we've seen a fair bit more Carrick, Wilshere, Cleverley & others - usually accompanying Gerrard.
posted on 18/11/13
Baines is a very average defender. How moyes thinks he's better than Evra is anyone's guess.
posted on 18/11/13
I don't think its just a technique thing, quite often its an intelligence thing
-------------------
It's neither, really, the basic problem is that we don't have enough players playing at the same club day in day out, you just can't play the same way, knowing instinctively where to go or what run to make. In my opinion this is more important than straight-out ability.
If Walcott had the Arsenal midfield playing behind him for England he'd play the same football, he doesn't he has a mismatch of players from different clubs.
posted on 18/11/13
comment by Arsene Wengooner (U6031)
Got to agree with what you say.The premiership does seem to have more managers with different playing philosophies than any other top flight league in the World.
posted on 18/11/13
People are overrating Germany a little.
They have many superb players but they concede a lot of goals and it won't be their strongest side out either.
If Gerrard and Rooney play well we can beat anyone, irrespective of the make up of the rest of the team.
Chile were very good the other night, qualified well for the World Cup and have been a good side for a few years now.
They were underestimated by fans against an experimental England side, now an experimental Germany side are being overrated against a reasonably strong England line up.
Not saying we will win, but I am going to the game and am certainly not expecting us to get hammered.
posted on 18/11/13
England's weakness is at the back. Germany's strength is going forward. This can end only one way.
posted on 18/11/13
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 18/11/13
Carrick when played has never let england down, and to say international football is another level is total rollocks......its shitteee! If a player has excelled in the champions league he is a top player and carrick has impressed over 7 seasons so i would say hes very comfortable on the ball and is a top player full stop
posted on 18/11/13
England will beat Germany and people will go on about how it's just a friendly...
posted on 18/11/13
comment by A Concerned Red Devil (U1429)
posted 11 seconds ago
Carrick when played has never let england down
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Said no-one, ever. Montenegro away was a fine example of his terrible play in an England shirt.
posted on 18/11/13
we have no depth
most of the players in the England side wouldn't have gotten within a mile of the side 5 years ago but it's all we've got now so they're even starters at times
posted on 18/11/13
I actually rate Cleverly is he's very good on the ball and has got good stamina. He can't pass though..
posted on 18/11/13
To be fair, the midfield would have had no chance under the Gerrard-Lampard era. They were too good at club level to drop.
posted on 18/11/13
And Gerrard is still a top creator. Most assists in the league and created most chances. He just needs someone to do most of the dirty work and help him keep the ball. Then you'd have a top/dangerous player.
posted on 18/11/13
Gerrard is still a key player for England, as proven against Chile when we created barely anything.
He is underrated because of his age.
posted on 18/11/13
What I find strange is that for all the rhetoric about England players being taught to be physical and get stuck in we don't have actually have a recognised ball winner in the middle of the pitch.
The closest we have is Jones and he's a cb.
posted on 18/11/13
Very true Darren.
Chile had two the another night in Ruiz? The Basle player, and Medel who was out of position at centre half.
I actually think Cattermole is an underrated player. He gets stick because of consistent red cards, but many other nations have such a player (Ramos, Medel as two examples).
He is very good at his job of winning it and playing it simple.
posted on 18/11/13
I hate Lee Clattermole with a passion.
posted on 18/11/13
Why?
I have seen him live and his positioning and leadership are excellent.
Yes he can be a dirty so and so but virtually every winning team has one.
Not saying he should be an England regular or anything but if we need a ball winner he should be given a chance.
posted on 18/11/13
I just think he's a crap footballer and a thug.
posted on 18/11/13
Can't agree at all.
Medel had 7 red cards in two seasons for Sevilla.
Ramos has been sent off 17 times
Cattermole has 7 reds but has been playing regularly since 17.
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