comment by Hex Omega (U7888)
posted 2 hours, 49 minutes ago
I've heard so many people tell those who suffer depression to just 'cheer up.' I wonder if they can really believe that it’s that simple.
Depression isn't just sadness. It is emptiness, it is misery. It is pain and nothingness at once. When you are truly depressed you lack the ability or the will to cheer yourself up. No one just ‘has depression.’ You suffer from it. This is depression: You will be awake at 5, 6, maybe 7am, feeling as though you had only just fallen asleep. It’s likely you did. If you don't have to be somewhere, you could lie in bed for another 3 hours...too tired, too miserable and pathetic to crawl out of you bed. Or maybe you will sleep until 1pm, because it’s so much easier to sleep through most of the day than actually live it, and you’re so unbelievably tired anyway. You will push through the day, knowing that every hour will be a struggle and not knowing how you will feel tomorrow. People will ask what is wrong, and you will simply smile and say 'nothing, I'm just tired.' Yes you are tired. You are so tired of drifting through every day, with no will to actually live. But you simply smile, and they'll believe you. It’s so much easier to lie anyway, and most of the time you can push away the guilt.
No one will understand. You do not have hospital beds, drips, bandages or needles to make people worry. Of course the depression will have destroyed any self-esteem you might have had, so you'll be too scared to ask for the help you need. You just go on, hoping someone will notice your slow, meticulous self-destruction.
Depression is a serious illness and something that I would not wish on anybody. In a logical mind, suicide is not the illness but when you have someone who is suffering from this, then all rational thoughts go out of the window.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hex, that's the most eloquent and thoughtful post I've seen on this site in quite some time.
my own experience of depression is that keeping it bottled up inside of you is the absolute worst thing you can do. you're right, you can't properly cure it but you can fight it
suicidal thoughts seem to come when you have the weight of the world on your shoulders and you feel unable to share the load with anyone
Like the OP I experienced some very dark thoughts in my late teens.
On reflection I think these feelings can be reduced to being very disappointed in myself in comparison to my peers and the consumer framed images we are constantly bombarded with about who or what we should be. Much like OP, those around me could tell I was not at my best but they had no idea exactly how low my view of self had become.
It is absolutely true that depression and particularly suicide devastates lives far beyond that of the individual sufferer. But the idea that we should just pull ourselves together, stop being so selfish and get on with it is damaging and unhelpful.
Britain today is a highly competitive, superficial and materialistic society. Self image and perceived social status in comparison to others plays a huge part in how we (the British and most other neo liberal nation states) experience the world. Research shows that in our country and others like it low self esteem and poor mental health is comparatively higher than in less unequal and less competitive societies.
Generally speaking we are an emotionally unhealthy nation and our predominantly dismissive attitude towards each others needs compounds the problem.
This has been my opinion for many years. I read the book “The Spirit Level” recently and it presents evidence from hundreds of studies from across lots of developed countries to support these ideas.
I had depression a few years back, even considered suicide at one point, luckily I had the sense to quickly phone a family member before I tried it who could come round and sit with me.
ironically my depression was, in part caused by witnessing my sister's repeated suicide attempts a few years before, having to stem the bleedingbfrom her slit wrists more than once.she was suffering with depression herself at the time, it's an illness that without suffering through you will never understand.
I was extremely lucky to have supportive family a great friend who helped me through it. whom actually suffered from it himself a year ago so I managed to return the favour (and loads of "friends" who I haven't seen since I started suffering because they wanted nothing to do with me as a result of the illness)
but most fantastic of all was my girlfriend (we had been dating for a year when it started) who was massively supportive even though, due to my illness, I was pushing her away and dident want her near me. I did not like being apart from her while I was suffering but I also could not stand her being around. even then she organised and made sure someone was with me at all times to help me through.
that's the thing that people don't understand with depression it's confusing, tiring and an embarrassing thing (due to the stigma and some people's Neolithic views) to suffer through. anyone who knew me prior to me falling ill with it would probably have voted me least likely person in the world to suffer from it.
unfortunatley some of the responses in this article sadden me, especially those of sheriff, telling someone to "man the fack up" is probably the worst thing you could possibly do. depression is a chemical imbalance it's not people feeling a bit sad, or being ungrateful for all the comforts we have in life, and telling someone who is already depressed to "man up" makes them feel like they are at fault for the illness which can only ever make their self loathing worse.
sadly depression never really goes away when you have suffered with it, once a month or so I have anxiety attacks of differing levels of severity or length, and where I used to be extremely outgoing and would try/do anything I still have to really force myself through unfamiliar things. and "manning up" is never going to help me and is quite frankly offensive. it's never going to help because depression changes the person you were in ways that only someone who has experienced first hand will ever understand. depressed people need compassion and understanding, verbal kicks up the mass will only ever make the situation worse.
Two of my good mates Fathers committed suicide in the past 6 months. They had a good family, job, grandchildren and a large support network.
It just goes to show that deep down they were really in a dark place, a place they could not rise out of. It's do sad to hear when my mate had to identify the hanging body in his parents garage.
Just wanted to thank everyone for their contributions, it's been an interesting read.
I have never suffered in the way many on this thread have, for whatever reason I'm lucky enough that it's just not in my make up. My girlfriend however has suffered in the past and continues to do so periodically.
When she's feeling down she often thinks I don't understand, in all honesty she's probably right but that doesn't mean I'm not trying. Reading comments like the above does help to bring some perspective. The Robert Enke book is very good as well.
Suicide brave??? Now I have heard it all...
Suicide is reckless, single minded and a easy way out if your problems??
What's harder??? Go through a couple of years dealing with harsh depression whilst putting in the effort to change things round...
Or end it and leave your family and friends to pick up the pieces and let those people deal with tears of depression??
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
I've had all sorts of big problems in my life and have had 2 attempts...
I had a nervous breakdown 6 years ago
But maturing my mind and eventually doing the right thing, I managed to re change the way I thought... Changing my thought patterns!
It took years of hard work and I've had so many setbacks in that time, but is Suicide an option?? HELL NO!! You have to carry on, even if its just to ride out the storm of some of the extreme things that have happened!
In the last 2 years 3 people I know have committed suicide and sometimes when I close my eyes I can still see the confused families crying.
My mate Kev still has his mum and sister posting on his facebook pager every day a year and a half on!!
Very brave palming your problems on your loved ones!!
The world can be an empty place and I know how that feels, but real courage is reaching out for help or helping yourself
Even when you have suffered from it, and actually understand it a bit more, you are still incapable of helping somebody who is depressed.
The "there's always someone worse off than you" or "just get on with it" attitudes obviously won't help. I'm not sure anything does really. Sounds patronising to say "I know exactly how you feel" and if somebody had said it to me, I doubt it would have made any difference.
Even now, looking back at those times, I still feel as though I should have been able to"man up", but at the time, I had no inspiration/inclination/drive to do so. Everything seemed so utterly pointless.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by Be A Grizzly (U2206)
posted 7 seconds ago
Even when you have suffered from it, and actually understand it a bit more, you are still incapable of helping somebody who is depressed.
The "there's always someone worse off than you" or "just get on with it" attitudes obviously won't help. I'm not sure anything does really. Sounds patronising to say "I know exactly how you feel" and if somebody had said it to me, I doubt it would have made any difference.
Even now, looking back at those times, I still feel as though I should have been able to"man up", but at the time, I had no inspiration/inclination/drive to do so. Everything seemed so utterly pointless.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I appreciate that! Thats why the most bravest thing is to reach out!
i came very close to ending it all in my first year at Uni, once i'd actually mustered up the courage to talk to someone though the counselling and support systems there genuinely saved me
suicidal thoughts comes when depression has reached its zenith and you just can't take any more. as i said above, you don't want to nurture these thoughts though and keep them bottled up. when i did that it genuienly did nearly kill me
I'm proud of all you guys fighting your depression and not being reckless!
As harsh as it sounds and it is a harsh world we live in... You guys are the real heroes!
I can see where 1man is coming from. I've personally never went through any of this nor have I really seen it happening a side from a family friend (from before I was born) who became self destructive (alcoholism, homeless etc) after a few failed suicide attempts before I was born. We had a falling out and he moved in with his sister in Newcastle (who he never really liked), eventually he just left and was found dead in a field next to Edinburgh hospital after being omitted with renal failure (though there is a chance that he faked his death - but that's another story)
That's as close as I've been. My opinion on it is similar to 1mans though, I would never kill myself. There's no situation I can come up with in which death is a better option than anything. Suicide, to me, includes a degree of giving up. Which I can't, there is no such thing as failure, and to me, killing myself would constitute as failure. I would rather spend years of my life in the worse way possible and battle my way out of it than kill myself.
I understand that my opinion holds little value in terms of experience and such. And I can see that it's uncontrollable and a chemically driven illness. But I think it's similar to what Sterling work said about him not being wired that way. But I'm sure I will happen on circumstances where we'll see if my disposition holds up I guess. You never know.
comment by 1manontherun ® (U4291)
posted 43 minutes ago
Suicide brave??? Now I have heard it all...
Suicide is reckless, single minded and a easy way out if your problems??
What's harder??? Go through a couple of years dealing with harsh depression whilst putting in the effort to change things round...
Or end it and leave your family and friends to pick up the pieces and let those people deal with tears of depression??
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm guessing most cases involve people who are at their wit's end, incapable of rational thoughts like who they will be hurting and suchlike.
There are also plenty who genuinely believe that the people they are leaving behind would be better off without them.
My eldest son suffers from depression,its heartbreaking at times as you feel so helpless.
Fortunately he recognised early on that he needed help and has so far managed to control the problem but he'll be heading off to university soon enough,more than likely in the States,which will be a worry with him so far away.
comment by Paulpowersleftfoot (U1037)
posted 1 hour, 15 minutes ago
My eldest son suffers from depression,its heartbreaking at times as you feel so helpless.
Fortunately he recognised early on that he needed help and has so far managed to control the problem but he'll be heading off to university soon enough,more than likely in the States,which will be a worry with him so far away.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
in all seriousness you might actually want to research a bit into how good the counselling services there are meant to be
knew someone who struggled, not least because the counselling/guidance service there wasn't that great
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Depression/Suicide
Page 3 of 4
posted on 26/11/13
comment by Hex Omega (U7888)
posted 2 hours, 49 minutes ago
I've heard so many people tell those who suffer depression to just 'cheer up.' I wonder if they can really believe that it’s that simple.
Depression isn't just sadness. It is emptiness, it is misery. It is pain and nothingness at once. When you are truly depressed you lack the ability or the will to cheer yourself up. No one just ‘has depression.’ You suffer from it. This is depression: You will be awake at 5, 6, maybe 7am, feeling as though you had only just fallen asleep. It’s likely you did. If you don't have to be somewhere, you could lie in bed for another 3 hours...too tired, too miserable and pathetic to crawl out of you bed. Or maybe you will sleep until 1pm, because it’s so much easier to sleep through most of the day than actually live it, and you’re so unbelievably tired anyway. You will push through the day, knowing that every hour will be a struggle and not knowing how you will feel tomorrow. People will ask what is wrong, and you will simply smile and say 'nothing, I'm just tired.' Yes you are tired. You are so tired of drifting through every day, with no will to actually live. But you simply smile, and they'll believe you. It’s so much easier to lie anyway, and most of the time you can push away the guilt.
No one will understand. You do not have hospital beds, drips, bandages or needles to make people worry. Of course the depression will have destroyed any self-esteem you might have had, so you'll be too scared to ask for the help you need. You just go on, hoping someone will notice your slow, meticulous self-destruction.
Depression is a serious illness and something that I would not wish on anybody. In a logical mind, suicide is not the illness but when you have someone who is suffering from this, then all rational thoughts go out of the window.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hex, that's the most eloquent and thoughtful post I've seen on this site in quite some time.
posted on 26/11/13
my own experience of depression is that keeping it bottled up inside of you is the absolute worst thing you can do. you're right, you can't properly cure it but you can fight it
suicidal thoughts seem to come when you have the weight of the world on your shoulders and you feel unable to share the load with anyone
posted on 26/11/13
Like the OP I experienced some very dark thoughts in my late teens.
On reflection I think these feelings can be reduced to being very disappointed in myself in comparison to my peers and the consumer framed images we are constantly bombarded with about who or what we should be. Much like OP, those around me could tell I was not at my best but they had no idea exactly how low my view of self had become.
It is absolutely true that depression and particularly suicide devastates lives far beyond that of the individual sufferer. But the idea that we should just pull ourselves together, stop being so selfish and get on with it is damaging and unhelpful.
Britain today is a highly competitive, superficial and materialistic society. Self image and perceived social status in comparison to others plays a huge part in how we (the British and most other neo liberal nation states) experience the world. Research shows that in our country and others like it low self esteem and poor mental health is comparatively higher than in less unequal and less competitive societies.
Generally speaking we are an emotionally unhealthy nation and our predominantly dismissive attitude towards each others needs compounds the problem.
This has been my opinion for many years. I read the book “The Spirit Level” recently and it presents evidence from hundreds of studies from across lots of developed countries to support these ideas.
posted on 26/11/13
I had depression a few years back, even considered suicide at one point, luckily I had the sense to quickly phone a family member before I tried it who could come round and sit with me.
ironically my depression was, in part caused by witnessing my sister's repeated suicide attempts a few years before, having to stem the bleedingbfrom her slit wrists more than once.she was suffering with depression herself at the time, it's an illness that without suffering through you will never understand.
I was extremely lucky to have supportive family a great friend who helped me through it. whom actually suffered from it himself a year ago so I managed to return the favour (and loads of "friends" who I haven't seen since I started suffering because they wanted nothing to do with me as a result of the illness)
but most fantastic of all was my girlfriend (we had been dating for a year when it started) who was massively supportive even though, due to my illness, I was pushing her away and dident want her near me. I did not like being apart from her while I was suffering but I also could not stand her being around. even then she organised and made sure someone was with me at all times to help me through.
that's the thing that people don't understand with depression it's confusing, tiring and an embarrassing thing (due to the stigma and some people's Neolithic views) to suffer through. anyone who knew me prior to me falling ill with it would probably have voted me least likely person in the world to suffer from it.
unfortunatley some of the responses in this article sadden me, especially those of sheriff, telling someone to "man the fack up" is probably the worst thing you could possibly do. depression is a chemical imbalance it's not people feeling a bit sad, or being ungrateful for all the comforts we have in life, and telling someone who is already depressed to "man up" makes them feel like they are at fault for the illness which can only ever make their self loathing worse.
sadly depression never really goes away when you have suffered with it, once a month or so I have anxiety attacks of differing levels of severity or length, and where I used to be extremely outgoing and would try/do anything I still have to really force myself through unfamiliar things. and "manning up" is never going to help me and is quite frankly offensive. it's never going to help because depression changes the person you were in ways that only someone who has experienced first hand will ever understand. depressed people need compassion and understanding, verbal kicks up the mass will only ever make the situation worse.
posted on 26/11/13
Two of my good mates Fathers committed suicide in the past 6 months. They had a good family, job, grandchildren and a large support network.
It just goes to show that deep down they were really in a dark place, a place they could not rise out of. It's do sad to hear when my mate had to identify the hanging body in his parents garage.
posted on 26/11/13
nice work Hex
posted on 26/11/13
Just wanted to thank everyone for their contributions, it's been an interesting read.
I have never suffered in the way many on this thread have, for whatever reason I'm lucky enough that it's just not in my make up. My girlfriend however has suffered in the past and continues to do so periodically.
When she's feeling down she often thinks I don't understand, in all honesty she's probably right but that doesn't mean I'm not trying. Reading comments like the above does help to bring some perspective. The Robert Enke book is very good as well.
posted on 26/11/13
Suicide brave??? Now I have heard it all...
Suicide is reckless, single minded and a easy way out if your problems??
What's harder??? Go through a couple of years dealing with harsh depression whilst putting in the effort to change things round...
Or end it and leave your family and friends to pick up the pieces and let those people deal with tears of depression??
posted on 26/11/13
Years•
posted on 26/11/13
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 26/11/13
Yep
posted on 26/11/13
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 26/11/13
I've had all sorts of big problems in my life and have had 2 attempts...
I had a nervous breakdown 6 years ago
But maturing my mind and eventually doing the right thing, I managed to re change the way I thought... Changing my thought patterns!
It took years of hard work and I've had so many setbacks in that time, but is Suicide an option?? HELL NO!! You have to carry on, even if its just to ride out the storm of some of the extreme things that have happened!
In the last 2 years 3 people I know have committed suicide and sometimes when I close my eyes I can still see the confused families crying.
My mate Kev still has his mum and sister posting on his facebook pager every day a year and a half on!!
Very brave palming your problems on your loved ones!!
posted on 26/11/13
The world can be an empty place and I know how that feels, but real courage is reaching out for help or helping yourself
posted on 26/11/13
Even when you have suffered from it, and actually understand it a bit more, you are still incapable of helping somebody who is depressed.
The "there's always someone worse off than you" or "just get on with it" attitudes obviously won't help. I'm not sure anything does really. Sounds patronising to say "I know exactly how you feel" and if somebody had said it to me, I doubt it would have made any difference.
Even now, looking back at those times, I still feel as though I should have been able to"man up", but at the time, I had no inspiration/inclination/drive to do so. Everything seemed so utterly pointless.
posted on 26/11/13
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 26/11/13
comment by Be A Grizzly (U2206)
posted 7 seconds ago
Even when you have suffered from it, and actually understand it a bit more, you are still incapable of helping somebody who is depressed.
The "there's always someone worse off than you" or "just get on with it" attitudes obviously won't help. I'm not sure anything does really. Sounds patronising to say "I know exactly how you feel" and if somebody had said it to me, I doubt it would have made any difference.
Even now, looking back at those times, I still feel as though I should have been able to"man up", but at the time, I had no inspiration/inclination/drive to do so. Everything seemed so utterly pointless.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I appreciate that! Thats why the most bravest thing is to reach out!
posted on 26/11/13
i came very close to ending it all in my first year at Uni, once i'd actually mustered up the courage to talk to someone though the counselling and support systems there genuinely saved me
suicidal thoughts comes when depression has reached its zenith and you just can't take any more. as i said above, you don't want to nurture these thoughts though and keep them bottled up. when i did that it genuienly did nearly kill me
posted on 26/11/13
I'm proud of all you guys fighting your depression and not being reckless!
As harsh as it sounds and it is a harsh world we live in... You guys are the real heroes!
posted on 26/11/13
I can see where 1man is coming from. I've personally never went through any of this nor have I really seen it happening a side from a family friend (from before I was born) who became self destructive (alcoholism, homeless etc) after a few failed suicide attempts before I was born. We had a falling out and he moved in with his sister in Newcastle (who he never really liked), eventually he just left and was found dead in a field next to Edinburgh hospital after being omitted with renal failure (though there is a chance that he faked his death - but that's another story)
That's as close as I've been. My opinion on it is similar to 1mans though, I would never kill myself. There's no situation I can come up with in which death is a better option than anything. Suicide, to me, includes a degree of giving up. Which I can't, there is no such thing as failure, and to me, killing myself would constitute as failure. I would rather spend years of my life in the worse way possible and battle my way out of it than kill myself.
I understand that my opinion holds little value in terms of experience and such. And I can see that it's uncontrollable and a chemically driven illness. But I think it's similar to what Sterling work said about him not being wired that way. But I'm sure I will happen on circumstances where we'll see if my disposition holds up I guess. You never know.
posted on 26/11/13
comment by 1manontherun ® (U4291)
posted 43 minutes ago
Suicide brave??? Now I have heard it all...
Suicide is reckless, single minded and a easy way out if your problems??
What's harder??? Go through a couple of years dealing with harsh depression whilst putting in the effort to change things round...
Or end it and leave your family and friends to pick up the pieces and let those people deal with tears of depression??
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm guessing most cases involve people who are at their wit's end, incapable of rational thoughts like who they will be hurting and suchlike.
posted on 26/11/13
There are also plenty who genuinely believe that the people they are leaving behind would be better off without them.
posted on 26/11/13
My eldest son suffers from depression,its heartbreaking at times as you feel so helpless.
Fortunately he recognised early on that he needed help and has so far managed to control the problem but he'll be heading off to university soon enough,more than likely in the States,which will be a worry with him so far away.
posted on 26/11/13
comment by Paulpowersleftfoot (U1037)
posted 1 hour, 15 minutes ago
My eldest son suffers from depression,its heartbreaking at times as you feel so helpless.
Fortunately he recognised early on that he needed help and has so far managed to control the problem but he'll be heading off to university soon enough,more than likely in the States,which will be a worry with him so far away.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
in all seriousness you might actually want to research a bit into how good the counselling services there are meant to be
knew someone who struggled, not least because the counselling/guidance service there wasn't that great
posted on 26/11/13
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Page 3 of 4