Good article but give him to the end of this season and beginning of next I say.
Fergies brief was to turn the club upside down, install a new culture and totally re structure from top to bottom. Unlike Moyes he wasn't appointed to administer seamless continuity from the previous administration. This is why Fergie was given time.
-----
every time we get the old "Fergie was given time, so should Moyes". Well Sir Alex didn't take over a group of champions, Moyes did and he's ruined every players confidence and he's not even shown one sign of improvement. We look sluggish and we keep playing tactics that are outdated and causing huge uncomfort to the players.
discomfort* not uncomfort
I wanted Jose in the summer to be honest, but I'm not going to call for Moyes to be sacked just yet
Hard to disagree with any of this. Brilliant article.
Best article i've seen on the whole thing. What you are saying is spot on.
comment by There's only One Matter (Formerly: SirBubbly, LOL!, Mr Mercurial, Iron Man..) (U17162)
posted 9 minutes ago
I wanted Jose in the summer to be honest, but I'm not going to call for Moyes to be sacked just yet
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No chance of Jose leaving Chelsea now. That boat has sailed now...
Brilliant article. Let me see what argument anyone can come up against this. Hits the nail on the head with every word written.
As i said above a very good article but op what do you think in terms of time and performance represents a fair chance for a new manager after 27 years of Fergie ?
Six months, One season , top 4 ??
A balanced and well thoughtout article.
Can't disagree with any of it RBW.
I enjoyed this article, very well written and posed some excellent arguments. For that reason, it will get very little comments because the pro-Moyes brigade won't read/reply to it.
Bloodyhell
***
I wouldnt be too miffed if he took 2 or 3 years to win a trophy...so long as we keep in the top 4. The season he drops out he has to go. This season or in in his 6th season (whatever his contract is for).
United have to set a minimum acceptable requirement for any manager to deliver.
Needs more time. I would agree with Moyes when he has said that we've been unlucky in a lot of games. The fine margins that went for us last season seem to be going against us. We were unconvincing champions in a terrible league last season. Hundreds of millions of pounds worth of improvement collectively to our rivals has undoubtedly shown up or deficiencies of last season.
The fact that these players won anything at all is testanent to SAF rather than a rod with which to beat Moyes. Top players will still do OK (at least top 4) regardless of the manager; see Mancini at City, Grant at Chelsea etc.
Rodgers got time at Liverpool and I have no illusions as to that being a mere coincidence either.
I agree with the OP that we do need to see an improvement, but I think that also needs to come from the playing staff as well as the manager.
Comments like Moyes Forever fans are just petty and dismissive and quite hypocritical given the underlying tone of asking for people to allow people to criticise.
I want to see some good players come in in the summer. If we then falter when we have a squad of players genuinely able to go toe to toe with City in terms of quality per position, then I will accept that he isnt the man for the job.
I think he deserves time to build his own team. Anyone would struggle with another mans team. Especially whrn that other man was SAF.
What is also worth considering is that most of the best players under Fergie (Vidic, Rio, Evra, Carrick, Giggs) are well past their sell by date. The glue that held inferior parts of the machine together has eroded and this is the result. The squad needs a refresh because a lot of the players in our squad wouldnt get a spot on the bench at City, Chelsea and Arsenal.
Can't disagree with any of that.
Comments like Moyes Forever fans are just petty and dismissive and quite hypocritical given the underlying tone of asking for people to allow people to criticise.
***
Im talking about on special person here and I think you know who I mean.
He's just an old skool 4-2-2 merchant and I think he will find it hard to attract the best technically gifted players required to dominate in Europe (Mata I accept was a coup).
------------------
We have not played a traditional 4-4-2 all season. How can you not have noticed this (seemingly along with 95% of folk on here)?
comment by RBW - I'll be the judge of that (U2335)
posted 3 minutes ago
Bloodyhell
***
I wouldnt be too miffed if he took 2 or 3 years to<a href="#" id="_GPLITA_0" in_rurl="http://i.txtsrving.info/click?v=R0I6NTg1Mzk6MTA6d2luIGE6ZGJkMWJjNTczYWI2NDY3N2M0NWFhODMxZDZiNTEwYWI6ei0xMTIyLTk1NDU4Ond3dy5qYTYwNi5jby51azoxODA1MDE6MmNhYmIzNjE3ZWY5ZWMxNGRmN2QyNGE5OGY5NTliNWI6ODQ4NDI3NWQxMTRjNDgzYzg4YTM1YTg1OTk3NzY2OTM" title="Click to Continue > by CouponDropDown" style="background-image: initial !important; background-attachment: initial !important; background-origin: initial !important; background-clip: initial !important; background-color: transparent !important; border-top-style: none !important; border-right-style: none !important; border-bottom-style: none !important; border-left-style: none !important; border-width: initial !important; border-color: initial !important; display: inline !important; float: none !important; height: auto !important; margin-top: 0px !important; margin-right: 0px !important; margin-bottom: 0px !important; margin-left: 0px !important; min-height: 0px !important; min-width: 0px !important; padding-top: 0px !important; padding-right: 0px !important; padding-bottom: 0px !important; padding-left: 0px !important; vertical-align: baseline !important; width: auto !important; text-decoration: underline !important; background-position: initial initial !important; background-repeat: initial initial !important; ">win a<img src="http://cdncache1-a.akamaihd.net/items/it/img/arrow-10x10.png" style="background-image: initial !important; background-attachment: initial !important; background-origin: initial !important; background-clip: initial !important; background-color: transparent !important; border-top-style: none !important; border-right-style: none !important; border-bottom-style: none !important; border-left-style: none !important; border-width: initial !important; border-color: initial !important; display: inline !important; float: none !important; height: 10px !important; margin-top: 0px !important; margin-right: 0px !important; margin-bottom: 0px !important; margin-left: 3px !important; min-height: 0px !important; min-width: 0px !important; padding-top: 0px !important; padding-right: 0px !important; padding-bottom: 0px !important; padding-left: 0px !important; vertical-align: super !important; width: 10px !important; background-position: initial initial !important; background-repeat: initial initial !important; "></a>trophy...so long as we keep in the top 4. The season he drops out he has to go. This season or in in his 6th season (whatever his contract is for).
United have to set a minimum acceptable requirement for any manager to deliver.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think you and many would be miffed. We say that and then would move the goalposts.
I am pretty sure there is a minimum requirement but it may not fall in line with any of our views and it may not be in a given season. For all we know it could be with in 2 or 3 seasons or 18 months. We just don't know what the criteria is.
Personally I think once the crowd turn on him he is gone !
comment by Ji Sung Park's Cousin - MoyesIn, MoyesOut, ya shake it all about (U2958)
posted 1 minute ago
He's just an old skool 4-2-2 merchant and I think he will find it hard to attract the best technically gifted players required to dominate in Europe (Mata I accept was a coup).
------------------
We have not played a traditional 4-4-2 all season. How can you not have noticed this (seemingly along with 95% of folk on here)?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Spot on Ji ! too much crap spouted on these boards by all ! Me included
This may not be the best United team by its standards, but I refuse to believe it's not top 4 worthy as well. The squad should finish 4th at the very least but now that's out of the question.
comment by The Wizard of Öz (U18355)
posted 9 minutes ago
I enjoyed this article, very well written and posed some excellent arguments. For that reason, it will get very little comments because the pro-Moyes brigade won't read/reply to it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Thats because there are not many left on the "Pro Moyes" going by the Roll call and in/Out articles yesterday.
Not that simple RVPLF. You can easily argue a case asto why City, Chelsea and Arsenal are better than us. That leaves one place. With the form Liverpool are in, and the fact that their team was showing signs of gelling last season, you can see why they might finish above us. Add to that they have the best player in the league in Suarez and it start becoming less clear cut that we should be guaranteed top 4.
RVP - I think that's about right, 3rd or 4th we should be finishing this season with Fergie. Without perhaps 4th or 5th.
We missed the boat in the summer when new players were needed. Until that midfield is addressed properly we will struggle
But we have a better team than Liverpool Frenchie. They only trump us in the midfield area. In attack we boast better options along with the defence and keeper. And let's be fair, their midfield isn't all that either. But they've got a style and they've gelled like you said, we was an efficient team too until Moyes came and ruined it all.
I supported the Moyes appointment over the likes of Jose. The Board wanted continuity from the Ferguson era with a like-minded British disciplinarian who they thought could work with the existing squad and club set-up. Continuity not Revolution was the buzz-word. Yes we all realise that we might have teething problems at first and even accept that we might struggle to compete in the PL and CL enough to win them in the first couple of years, especially with what is going on at City & Chelsea, with reemerging clubs like Arsenal and Liverpool. Oh, well, if that’s the price we have to pay then its not a major blow in the bigger picture of the club.
------------------
Everyone fawning over this article seem to be skipping over this.... You seem to fully understand what the club and Moyes are trying to achieve, yet have given up on him compketly after half a season.
Seems like copping out, to me.
If thus post were made after 18 months or even the end of a bad first season... You'd get a bit more credit from me
Sign in if you want to comment
It's not about Moyes it's about United!
Page 1 of 3
posted on 2/2/14
Good article but give him to the end of this season and beginning of next I say.
posted on 2/2/14
Fergies brief was to turn the club upside down, install a new culture and totally re structure from top to bottom. Unlike Moyes he wasn't appointed to administer seamless continuity from the previous administration. This is why Fergie was given time.
-----
every time we get the old "Fergie was given time, so should Moyes". Well Sir Alex didn't take over a group of champions, Moyes did and he's ruined every players confidence and he's not even shown one sign of improvement. We look sluggish and we keep playing tactics that are outdated and causing huge uncomfort to the players.
posted on 2/2/14
discomfort* not uncomfort
posted on 2/2/14
I wanted Jose in the summer to be honest, but I'm not going to call for Moyes to be sacked just yet
posted on 2/2/14
Hard to disagree with any of this. Brilliant article.
posted on 2/2/14
Best article i've seen on the whole thing. What you are saying is spot on.
posted on 2/2/14
comment by There's only One Matter (Formerly: SirBubbly, LOL!, Mr Mercurial, Iron Man..) (U17162)
posted 9 minutes ago
I wanted Jose in the summer to be honest, but I'm not going to call for Moyes to be sacked just yet
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No chance of Jose leaving Chelsea now. That boat has sailed now...
posted on 2/2/14
Brilliant article. Let me see what argument anyone can come up against this. Hits the nail on the head with every word written.
posted on 2/2/14
Spectacular.
posted on 2/2/14
As i said above a very good article but op what do you think in terms of time and performance represents a fair chance for a new manager after 27 years of Fergie ?
Six months, One season , top 4 ??
posted on 2/2/14
A balanced and well thoughtout article.
Can't disagree with any of it RBW.
posted on 2/2/14
I enjoyed this article, very well written and posed some excellent arguments. For that reason, it will get very little comments because the pro-Moyes brigade won't read/reply to it.
posted on 2/2/14
Bloodyhell
***
I wouldnt be too miffed if he took 2 or 3 years to win a trophy...so long as we keep in the top 4. The season he drops out he has to go. This season or in in his 6th season (whatever his contract is for).
United have to set a minimum acceptable requirement for any manager to deliver.
posted on 2/2/14
Needs more time. I would agree with Moyes when he has said that we've been unlucky in a lot of games. The fine margins that went for us last season seem to be going against us. We were unconvincing champions in a terrible league last season. Hundreds of millions of pounds worth of improvement collectively to our rivals has undoubtedly shown up or deficiencies of last season.
The fact that these players won anything at all is testanent to SAF rather than a rod with which to beat Moyes. Top players will still do OK (at least top 4) regardless of the manager; see Mancini at City, Grant at Chelsea etc.
Rodgers got time at Liverpool and I have no illusions as to that being a mere coincidence either.
I agree with the OP that we do need to see an improvement, but I think that also needs to come from the playing staff as well as the manager.
Comments like Moyes Forever fans are just petty and dismissive and quite hypocritical given the underlying tone of asking for people to allow people to criticise.
I want to see some good players come in in the summer. If we then falter when we have a squad of players genuinely able to go toe to toe with City in terms of quality per position, then I will accept that he isnt the man for the job.
I think he deserves time to build his own team. Anyone would struggle with another mans team. Especially whrn that other man was SAF.
What is also worth considering is that most of the best players under Fergie (Vidic, Rio, Evra, Carrick, Giggs) are well past their sell by date. The glue that held inferior parts of the machine together has eroded and this is the result. The squad needs a refresh because a lot of the players in our squad wouldnt get a spot on the bench at City, Chelsea and Arsenal.
posted on 2/2/14
Can't disagree with any of that.
posted on 2/2/14
Comments like Moyes Forever fans are just petty and dismissive and quite hypocritical given the underlying tone of asking for people to allow people to criticise.
***
Im talking about on special person here and I think you know who I mean.
posted on 2/2/14
He's just an old skool 4-2-2 merchant and I think he will find it hard to attract the best technically gifted players required to dominate in Europe (Mata I accept was a coup).
------------------
We have not played a traditional 4-4-2 all season. How can you not have noticed this (seemingly along with 95% of folk on here)?
posted on 2/2/14
comment by RBW - I'll be the judge of that (U2335)
posted 3 minutes ago
Bloodyhell
***
I wouldnt be too miffed if he took 2 or 3 years to<a href="#" id="_GPLITA_0" in_rurl="http://i.txtsrving.info/click?v=R0I6NTg1Mzk6MTA6d2luIGE6ZGJkMWJjNTczYWI2NDY3N2M0NWFhODMxZDZiNTEwYWI6ei0xMTIyLTk1NDU4Ond3dy5qYTYwNi5jby51azoxODA1MDE6MmNhYmIzNjE3ZWY5ZWMxNGRmN2QyNGE5OGY5NTliNWI6ODQ4NDI3NWQxMTRjNDgzYzg4YTM1YTg1OTk3NzY2OTM" title="Click to Continue > by CouponDropDown" style="background-image: initial !important; background-attachment: initial !important; background-origin: initial !important; background-clip: initial !important; background-color: transparent !important; border-top-style: none !important; border-right-style: none !important; border-bottom-style: none !important; border-left-style: none !important; border-width: initial !important; border-color: initial !important; display: inline !important; float: none !important; height: auto !important; margin-top: 0px !important; margin-right: 0px !important; margin-bottom: 0px !important; margin-left: 0px !important; min-height: 0px !important; min-width: 0px !important; padding-top: 0px !important; padding-right: 0px !important; padding-bottom: 0px !important; padding-left: 0px !important; vertical-align: baseline !important; width: auto !important; text-decoration: underline !important; background-position: initial initial !important; background-repeat: initial initial !important; ">win a<img src="http://cdncache1-a.akamaihd.net/items/it/img/arrow-10x10.png" style="background-image: initial !important; background-attachment: initial !important; background-origin: initial !important; background-clip: initial !important; background-color: transparent !important; border-top-style: none !important; border-right-style: none !important; border-bottom-style: none !important; border-left-style: none !important; border-width: initial !important; border-color: initial !important; display: inline !important; float: none !important; height: 10px !important; margin-top: 0px !important; margin-right: 0px !important; margin-bottom: 0px !important; margin-left: 3px !important; min-height: 0px !important; min-width: 0px !important; padding-top: 0px !important; padding-right: 0px !important; padding-bottom: 0px !important; padding-left: 0px !important; vertical-align: super !important; width: 10px !important; background-position: initial initial !important; background-repeat: initial initial !important; "></a>trophy...so long as we keep in the top 4. The season he drops out he has to go. This season or in in his 6th season (whatever his contract is for).
United have to set a minimum acceptable requirement for any manager to deliver.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think you and many would be miffed. We say that and then would move the goalposts.
I am pretty sure there is a minimum requirement but it may not fall in line with any of our views and it may not be in a given season. For all we know it could be with in 2 or 3 seasons or 18 months. We just don't know what the criteria is.
Personally I think once the crowd turn on him he is gone !
posted on 2/2/14
comment by Ji Sung Park's Cousin - MoyesIn, MoyesOut, ya shake it all about (U2958)
posted 1 minute ago
He's just an old skool 4-2-2 merchant and I think he will find it hard to attract the best technically gifted players required to dominate in Europe (Mata I accept was a coup).
------------------
We have not played a traditional 4-4-2 all season. How can you not have noticed this (seemingly along with 95% of folk on here)?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Spot on Ji ! too much crap spouted on these boards by all ! Me included
posted on 2/2/14
This may not be the best United team by its standards, but I refuse to believe it's not top 4 worthy as well. The squad should finish 4th at the very least but now that's out of the question.
posted on 2/2/14
comment by The Wizard of Öz (U18355)
posted 9 minutes ago
I enjoyed this article, very well written and posed some excellent arguments. For that reason, it will get very little comments because the pro-Moyes brigade won't read/reply to it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Thats because there are not many left on the "Pro Moyes" going by the Roll call and in/Out articles yesterday.
posted on 2/2/14
Not that simple RVPLF. You can easily argue a case asto why City, Chelsea and Arsenal are better than us. That leaves one place. With the form Liverpool are in, and the fact that their team was showing signs of gelling last season, you can see why they might finish above us. Add to that they have the best player in the league in Suarez and it start becoming less clear cut that we should be guaranteed top 4.
posted on 2/2/14
RVP - I think that's about right, 3rd or 4th we should be finishing this season with Fergie. Without perhaps 4th or 5th.
We missed the boat in the summer when new players were needed. Until that midfield is addressed properly we will struggle
posted on 2/2/14
But we have a better team than Liverpool Frenchie. They only trump us in the midfield area. In attack we boast better options along with the defence and keeper. And let's be fair, their midfield isn't all that either. But they've got a style and they've gelled like you said, we was an efficient team too until Moyes came and ruined it all.
posted on 2/2/14
I supported the Moyes appointment over the likes of Jose. The Board wanted continuity from the Ferguson era with a like-minded British disciplinarian who they thought could work with the existing squad and club set-up. Continuity not Revolution was the buzz-word. Yes we all realise that we might have teething problems at first and even accept that we might struggle to compete in the PL and CL enough to win them in the first couple of years, especially with what is going on at City & Chelsea, with reemerging clubs like Arsenal and Liverpool. Oh, well, if that’s the price we have to pay then its not a major blow in the bigger picture of the club.
------------------
Everyone fawning over this article seem to be skipping over this.... You seem to fully understand what the club and Moyes are trying to achieve, yet have given up on him compketly after half a season.
Seems like copping out, to me.
If thus post were made after 18 months or even the end of a bad first season... You'd get a bit more credit from me
Page 1 of 3