You are though. You're making pitiful excuses like 'lastseasons midfield' to imply that they were good enough and that it's Moyes fault they're a bag of wànk.
comment by He's French, He's Flash...comment by Jay - I'll think of something profound to put here. (U16498) posted 14 minutes ago I'm not gay, or bi ffs. Closest I get is a bit of shémale pórn ffs. (U9335)
posted 13 seconds ago
You are though. You're making pitiful excuses like 'lastseasons midfield' to imply that they were good enough and that it's Moyes fault they're a bag of wànk.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That was in reply to you saying if we get trumped there, we get trumped full stop. My argument was that we did not get trumped just because our midfield was cack. We had carrick there last season who is in the top 5 best midfielders in the prem in what he does.
alongside Giggs/Cleverley it is irrelevant. A team is as good as the sum of its parts.
I might be alone on this one but I will still state that I wouldn't actually credit moyes with the signing of mata, I honestly don't believe mata came to united because of moyes but rather out of convenience, he was rotting on the Chelsea bench and he needed game time to make the trip to brazil, the fact that we had to make him our record signing when he wasn't getting games says a lot about how we are going to have to attract players these days. I am dreading the fact that we might have to pay more than city or Chelsea to attract certain players now all because of the current position we find ourselves in and we going to start looking like damn right hypocrites after mocking those clubs over the years.
Moyes reaction that he was gobsmaked that Mata was signed just about says it all really
comment by hiro nakamora (U1445)
posted 33 seconds ago
I might be alone on this one but I will still state that I wouldn't actually credit moyes with the signing of mata, I honestly don't believe mata came to united because of moyes but rather out of convenience, he was rotting on the Chelsea bench and he needed game time to make the trip to brazil, the fact that we had to make him our record signing when he wasn't getting games says a lot about how we are going to have to attract players these days. I am dreading the fact that we might have to pay more than city or Chelsea to attract certain players now all because of the current position we find ourselves in and we going to start looking like damn right hypocrites after mocking those clubs over the years.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You are not alone. No way did Mata come to us because of moyes. Fellaini did, no way Mata. What can Moyes sell mata about himself. Erm, I kept an Everton side up for 10 years, I gave Rooney his debut.
comment by scholayScholes (U13961)
posted 0 seconds ago
comment by hiro nakamora (U1445)
posted 33 seconds ago
I might be alone on this one but I will still state that I wouldn't actually credit moyes with the signing of mata, I honestly don't believe mata came to united because of moyes but rather out of convenience, he was rotting on the Chelsea bench and he needed game time to make the trip to brazil, the fact that we had to make him our record signing when he wasn't getting games says a lot about how we are going to have to attract players these days. I am dreading the fact that we might have to pay more than city or Chelsea to attract certain players now all because of the current position we find ourselves in and we going to start looking like damn right hypocrites after mocking those clubs over the years.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You are not alone. No way did Mata come to us because of moyes. Fellaini did, no way Mata. What can Moyes sell mata about himself. Erm, I kept an Everton side up for 10 years, I gave Rooney his debut.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't be so pathetic. He came because we wanted him, no other big club were in for him. For crying out loud, it's Man United. We do still hold an attraction you know even with Moyes as manager. Never heard so much crap
comment by Football_bloodyhell (U17867)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by scholayScholes (U13961)
posted 0 seconds ago
comment by hiro nakamora (U1445)
posted 33 seconds ago
I might be alone on this one but I will still state that I wouldn't actually credit moyes with the signing of mata, I honestly don't believe mata came to united because of moyes but rather out of convenience, he was rotting on the Chelsea bench and he needed game time to make the trip to brazil, the fact that we had to make him our record signing when he wasn't getting games says a lot about how we are going to have to attract players these days. I am dreading the fact that we might have to pay more than city or Chelsea to attract certain players now all because of the current position we find ourselves in and we going to start looking like damn right hypocrites after mocking those clubs over the years.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You are not alone. No way did Mata come to us because of moyes. Fellaini did, no way Mata. What can Moyes sell mata about himself. Erm, I kept an Everton side up for 10 years, I gave Rooney his debut.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't be so pathetic. He came because we wanted him, no other big club were in for him. For crying out loud, it's Man United. We do still hold an attraction you know even with Moyes as manager. Never heard so much crap
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That is exactly what I am getting at. Mata came here because it is Manchester United, period.
That is exactly what I am getting at. Mata came here because it is Manchester United, period.
***
exactly and what comes with being a Man United player.
i enjoy reading people defend moyes saying he is bringing some type of "style" to our play with full backs and bla bla.
All I see is endless hoofing the ball up field hoping RVP, Rooney, Mata or Welbeck can out jump defenders.
The amount of hoofing I am seeing in our play this season makes me eyes sting.
Unlike Moyes he wasn't appointed to administer seamless continuity from the previous administration.
----------
Well written article compared to the usual tripe about the demon Moyes!
Moyes was hired because he was the best man for the job in the eyes of SAF, Sir Bobby and the board (whether we like it or not)
He has been dealt a chit hand! A non existent midfield, having to mass clear out deadwood players and a defence that has a combined age of over a hundred which we have seen the best years from.
He hasn't gotten everything right and has made mistakes too, it's not all pro Moyes as some of the fans like to think fans like myself are about.
I really can't stand that 'he has a championship winning squad bollox!' Even if he did inherit last seasons squad with the addition of fellaini and now mata, SAF had RVP to get him out if tight situations, (like Southampton for one) as well as having a 'performing rio', Raphael Carrick and fit Rooney! Moyes hasn't had that!
Still believe we will get top four.
I too believe it is too soon to judge Moyes just yet. However, I would argue that there are clear tactical differences between this season and last, I only go to a handful of your games each season, but it was pretty evident to me and the stats back it up too.
This season, your average shots per game has decreased (as has your clinicality in front of goal), leading to a difference of 17 goals by the 20 game mark season on season. Now, people can quite rightly say that is the Van Persie effect of last year and Moyes has been massively unlucky in that respect (I do personally think Van Persie could have played a few games more than he actually has though...).
The reasons for the lack of shots goes deeper than that though, in terms of how the strikers are now being fed the ball as well. Your passing has dropped massively in terms of success rate (by 7%) and amount made (80 per game fewer), with the most significant drop being in the final third. The one passing statistic that has risen though, I'm sure some won't be surprised to read, is long balls played which has increased. That might be due to the amount of crosses we are putting in, some might ask? No, your crossing amount and completion rate have both actually declined - the long balls are not effectively to create chances, just to spread the play, so its a no-brainer that your possession has decreased as a result.
We're nearly there, just two more areas to look at. You have improved in one regard (although it may not feel like it), and that is defensively, conceding fewer goals so far this season. Where you have increased though is the amount of fouls you are conceding and cards that you are getting as a result.
So what does all of that tell us? Essentially, the play last year did look disjointed at times, but the overall tactical approach is very different. I'm surprised (actually, amazed) some don't think it is, I've only gone to two games this season and it was massively evident both times. There is a rigidity in movement this season that wasn't there last which, although making you slightly stronger at the back, is leading to you not having any space between the lines and hitting long balls. I'll admit it isn't as evident on tv as you don't get a decent enough picture of overall movement, but i've still seem it.
A big part of that will be down to players missing, and for that Moyes does need to time to see what he does with all the players available. To say it is solely down to that so far though is going against what all the stats and your own eyes should really be telling you.
comment by RBW - I'll be the judge of that (U2335)
posted 2 hours, 1 minute ago
Moyes reaction that he was gobsmaked that Mata was signed just about says it all really
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agree... and with the article too. It's like he was handed to him.....and he shrugs and says ok that'll do for this year. Maybe in Summer we'll find someoone else. So absolutely complacent and complaisant.
I too believe it is too soon to judge Moyes just yet.
***
Unless United make a remarkable recovery in form and the wheels fall of one of the top 4 #notgoingtohappen United's season is now over.
United have 14 games left to play (plus at least 2 in the CL). The chances of us qualifying for the CL are getting pretty remote. One more defeat would just about seal that. The time to judge moyes would have been at he end of his first season. No trophy with CL qual would have been a 6 out of ten can do much better. Carry on. But no CL is a fail. Goodbye.
Moyes seems to have got to this watershed as early as January as good as. That takes a lot of doing with a club like Man United. Our only hope left is that Liverpool capitulate. Even then we still have to improve to pip others to 4th
Superb article RBW, superb. 5 stars
ta MUDD
being bottling it up for a while.. had to be said. We need to act sooner rather than later
Was on the fence for a while but I'm now in the Moyesout brigade.
Just isn't working out. He's not a bad manager, utd is just a step too far
You clearly identified what Moyes is doing wrong. He's got to stop playing 4,2,2. A full compliment of players should see an improvement
I jest however. In truth he's never going to be bold enough for United, he's too safety first. But then again, Mourinho isn't bold enough for Chelsea either so there might be big changes at top clubs at the end of next season
Sign in if you want to comment
It's not about Moyes it's about United!
Page 3 of 3
posted on 2/2/14
You are though. You're making pitiful excuses like 'lastseasons midfield' to imply that they were good enough and that it's Moyes fault they're a bag of wànk.
posted on 2/2/14
comment by He's French, He's Flash...comment by Jay - I'll think of something profound to put here. (U16498) posted 14 minutes ago I'm not gay, or bi ffs. Closest I get is a bit of shémale pórn ffs. (U9335)
posted 13 seconds ago
You are though. You're making pitiful excuses like 'lastseasons midfield' to imply that they were good enough and that it's Moyes fault they're a bag of wànk.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That was in reply to you saying if we get trumped there, we get trumped full stop. My argument was that we did not get trumped just because our midfield was cack. We had carrick there last season who is in the top 5 best midfielders in the prem in what he does.
posted on 2/2/14
alongside Giggs/Cleverley it is irrelevant. A team is as good as the sum of its parts.
posted on 2/2/14
I might be alone on this one but I will still state that I wouldn't actually credit moyes with the signing of mata, I honestly don't believe mata came to united because of moyes but rather out of convenience, he was rotting on the Chelsea bench and he needed game time to make the trip to brazil, the fact that we had to make him our record signing when he wasn't getting games says a lot about how we are going to have to attract players these days. I am dreading the fact that we might have to pay more than city or Chelsea to attract certain players now all because of the current position we find ourselves in and we going to start looking like damn right hypocrites after mocking those clubs over the years.
posted on 2/2/14
Moyes reaction that he was gobsmaked that Mata was signed just about says it all really
posted on 2/2/14
comment by hiro nakamora (U1445)
posted 33 seconds ago
I might be alone on this one but I will still state that I wouldn't actually credit moyes with the signing of mata, I honestly don't believe mata came to united because of moyes but rather out of convenience, he was rotting on the Chelsea bench and he needed game time to make the trip to brazil, the fact that we had to make him our record signing when he wasn't getting games says a lot about how we are going to have to attract players these days. I am dreading the fact that we might have to pay more than city or Chelsea to attract certain players now all because of the current position we find ourselves in and we going to start looking like damn right hypocrites after mocking those clubs over the years.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You are not alone. No way did Mata come to us because of moyes. Fellaini did, no way Mata. What can Moyes sell mata about himself. Erm, I kept an Everton side up for 10 years, I gave Rooney his debut.
posted on 2/2/14
comment by scholayScholes (U13961)
posted 0 seconds ago
comment by hiro nakamora (U1445)
posted 33 seconds ago
I might be alone on this one but I will still state that I wouldn't actually credit moyes with the signing of mata, I honestly don't believe mata came to united because of moyes but rather out of convenience, he was rotting on the Chelsea bench and he needed game time to make the trip to brazil, the fact that we had to make him our record signing when he wasn't getting games says a lot about how we are going to have to attract players these days. I am dreading the fact that we might have to pay more than city or Chelsea to attract certain players now all because of the current position we find ourselves in and we going to start looking like damn right hypocrites after mocking those clubs over the years.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You are not alone. No way did Mata come to us because of moyes. Fellaini did, no way Mata. What can Moyes sell mata about himself. Erm, I kept an Everton side up for 10 years, I gave Rooney his debut.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't be so pathetic. He came because we wanted him, no other big club were in for him. For crying out loud, it's Man United. We do still hold an attraction you know even with Moyes as manager. Never heard so much crap
posted on 2/2/14
comment by Football_bloodyhell (U17867)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by scholayScholes (U13961)
posted 0 seconds ago
comment by hiro nakamora (U1445)
posted 33 seconds ago
I might be alone on this one but I will still state that I wouldn't actually credit moyes with the signing of mata, I honestly don't believe mata came to united because of moyes but rather out of convenience, he was rotting on the Chelsea bench and he needed game time to make the trip to brazil, the fact that we had to make him our record signing when he wasn't getting games says a lot about how we are going to have to attract players these days. I am dreading the fact that we might have to pay more than city or Chelsea to attract certain players now all because of the current position we find ourselves in and we going to start looking like damn right hypocrites after mocking those clubs over the years.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You are not alone. No way did Mata come to us because of moyes. Fellaini did, no way Mata. What can Moyes sell mata about himself. Erm, I kept an Everton side up for 10 years, I gave Rooney his debut.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't be so pathetic. He came because we wanted him, no other big club were in for him. For crying out loud, it's Man United. We do still hold an attraction you know even with Moyes as manager. Never heard so much crap
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That is exactly what I am getting at. Mata came here because it is Manchester United, period.
posted on 2/2/14
That is exactly what I am getting at. Mata came here because it is Manchester United, period.
***
exactly and what comes with being a Man United player.
posted on 2/2/14
i enjoy reading people defend moyes saying he is bringing some type of "style" to our play with full backs and bla bla.
All I see is endless hoofing the ball up field hoping RVP, Rooney, Mata or Welbeck can out jump defenders.
The amount of hoofing I am seeing in our play this season makes me eyes sting.
posted on 2/2/14
Unlike Moyes he wasn't appointed to administer seamless continuity from the previous administration.
----------
Well written article compared to the usual tripe about the demon Moyes!
Moyes was hired because he was the best man for the job in the eyes of SAF, Sir Bobby and the board (whether we like it or not)
He has been dealt a chit hand! A non existent midfield, having to mass clear out deadwood players and a defence that has a combined age of over a hundred which we have seen the best years from.
He hasn't gotten everything right and has made mistakes too, it's not all pro Moyes as some of the fans like to think fans like myself are about.
I really can't stand that 'he has a championship winning squad bollox!' Even if he did inherit last seasons squad with the addition of fellaini and now mata, SAF had RVP to get him out if tight situations, (like Southampton for one) as well as having a 'performing rio', Raphael Carrick and fit Rooney! Moyes hasn't had that!
Still believe we will get top four.
posted on 2/2/14
I too believe it is too soon to judge Moyes just yet. However, I would argue that there are clear tactical differences between this season and last, I only go to a handful of your games each season, but it was pretty evident to me and the stats back it up too.
This season, your average shots per game has decreased (as has your clinicality in front of goal), leading to a difference of 17 goals by the 20 game mark season on season. Now, people can quite rightly say that is the Van Persie effect of last year and Moyes has been massively unlucky in that respect (I do personally think Van Persie could have played a few games more than he actually has though...).
The reasons for the lack of shots goes deeper than that though, in terms of how the strikers are now being fed the ball as well. Your passing has dropped massively in terms of success rate (by 7%) and amount made (80 per game fewer), with the most significant drop being in the final third. The one passing statistic that has risen though, I'm sure some won't be surprised to read, is long balls played which has increased. That might be due to the amount of crosses we are putting in, some might ask? No, your crossing amount and completion rate have both actually declined - the long balls are not effectively to create chances, just to spread the play, so its a no-brainer that your possession has decreased as a result.
We're nearly there, just two more areas to look at. You have improved in one regard (although it may not feel like it), and that is defensively, conceding fewer goals so far this season. Where you have increased though is the amount of fouls you are conceding and cards that you are getting as a result.
So what does all of that tell us? Essentially, the play last year did look disjointed at times, but the overall tactical approach is very different. I'm surprised (actually, amazed) some don't think it is, I've only gone to two games this season and it was massively evident both times. There is a rigidity in movement this season that wasn't there last which, although making you slightly stronger at the back, is leading to you not having any space between the lines and hitting long balls. I'll admit it isn't as evident on tv as you don't get a decent enough picture of overall movement, but i've still seem it.
A big part of that will be down to players missing, and for that Moyes does need to time to see what he does with all the players available. To say it is solely down to that so far though is going against what all the stats and your own eyes should really be telling you.
posted on 2/2/14
comment by RBW - I'll be the judge of that (U2335)
posted 2 hours, 1 minute ago
Moyes reaction that he was gobsmaked that Mata was signed just about says it all really
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agree... and with the article too. It's like he was handed to him.....and he shrugs and says ok that'll do for this year. Maybe in Summer we'll find someoone else. So absolutely complacent and complaisant.
posted on 2/2/14
I too believe it is too soon to judge Moyes just yet.
***
Unless United make a remarkable recovery in form and the wheels fall of one of the top 4 #notgoingtohappen United's season is now over.
United have 14 games left to play (plus at least 2 in the CL). The chances of us qualifying for the CL are getting pretty remote. One more defeat would just about seal that. The time to judge moyes would have been at he end of his first season. No trophy with CL qual would have been a 6 out of ten can do much better. Carry on. But no CL is a fail. Goodbye.
Moyes seems to have got to this watershed as early as January as good as. That takes a lot of doing with a club like Man United. Our only hope left is that Liverpool capitulate. Even then we still have to improve to pip others to 4th
posted on 2/2/14
Superb article RBW, superb. 5 stars
posted on 2/2/14
ta MUDD
being bottling it up for a while.. had to be said. We need to act sooner rather than later
posted on 2/2/14
Was on the fence for a while but I'm now in the Moyesout brigade.
Just isn't working out. He's not a bad manager, utd is just a step too far
posted on 2/2/14
You clearly identified what Moyes is doing wrong. He's got to stop playing 4,2,2. A full compliment of players should see an improvement
I jest however. In truth he's never going to be bold enough for United, he's too safety first. But then again, Mourinho isn't bold enough for Chelsea either so there might be big changes at top clubs at the end of next season
Page 3 of 3