comment by Earl Brutus (U1449)
posted 11 seconds ago
comment by The_Red_Cognoscente (U9741)
posted 26 seconds ago
To say Fabregas is overrated is just silly and goes against every parameter used to assess a player's ability and performance on the pitch.
Granted, he has had upheavals at Barca (unsurprising, as the likes of DTKF and i called it before he went there); Fabregas is a bonafide world class talent.
Not as silky as the likes of Silva etc but more productive on the pitch.
Should we sign him? I vote yes. But if LVG doesn't have him in his plans, well we just have to trust our manager.
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How is it silly to say he's overrated?
It depends how highly people in general rate him, and for some reason a lot of people have him down as some kind of midfield Svengali, he's decent yes but not in that elite bracket of silva, xavi, scholes, pirlo.
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I think you'd find he is more than 'decent'.
Personally, won't have Silva amongst that list - but that is just me. Silva is a talented footballer but bar city( and even then, he shares his responsibilities with a more than able supporting cast) he has never defined a team or had defining moments as the others.
Is Fabregas as good as the others? Well, it is not really a fair assessment as the aforementioned are significantly older (in football ages) and have had longer careers.
But at Arsenal, Fabregas was a fantastic player.
If you don't want him, fine. That is your right. And perhaps, LVG agrees with you.
But to call him overrated, well the evidence doesn't support your claim.
Cesc at Arsenal is better than Silva at City. He had a better record, better performances while playing in a deeper role in a weaker team
Stop basing things on how he played at Bayern.
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Why not. He stick to his system even when he did not have the players for it, which lead to his sacking. Its highly unlikely he will use something drastically different at united
Ok we'll just agree to disagree
"Not beyond the realms of possibility seeing as he didn't want to come to us when we were champions."
At the time I would have agreed but there did seem like quite a lot noise recently about Fabregas talking to RVP last summer about potentially being interested in a move and RVP was pretty much being used as a middle man.
Not saying it's true but could be some truth in it?
As much as I want this dude, I'm resigned to the fact that we are behind Chelsea on this one.
@SLM
Please don't mention Modric, makes me want to cry. Just let it go.
That may be, but my point is that just because he's leaving doesn't mean we haven't made an approach.
Barca knew we were interested, Cesc did, is it that unlikely contact was made between clubs but was swiftly dismissed by the player?
I'm not saying this did happen, but it could have, lots of contact is made by clubs without us or the media picking up on it - how often do you hear a player come out and say a club has approached them and it hadn't been picked up on? It happens often.
We'll find out in good time.
Darren
Sure, I was just making the point that it sounds like he actually was interested last summer. Maybe not enough to want to leave but I think there may have been some doubt in his mind.
I just hope whoever we are interested in this summer we have already begun initial contact, however little that may be.
Yep I agree.
I've heard it mentioned that Fabregas is only interested in moving to London. Which may explain why Chelsea appears to be his destination.
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 2 minutes ago
Don't blame him.
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What and pass up the opportunity to hang with the rough gals up North?
Why do people think a DM has to be all action, 100mph?
..............
WTF are yo on about now SLM?
Carrick wasn't a DM when he was at West Ham and he wasn't one at Spurs. Makalele and Essien are what DM's should be,.
We fudged it with Carrick and got away with it for too long. Last season you saw why Carrick isn't suited to that role.
Well, you probably didn't, but the rest of us on here did. Even Robb and Macca.
Signing a dm is just as vital as signing the more attacking and creative midfielder people are crying out for because the latter will need the former either way.
At least if we only get a dm we can hope that Carrick can rediscover some form in a more attacking role, something he should have been doing anyway.
If we signed Cesc, for example, and played him with Carrick we'd still have speedy players running through our midfield, which is a huge problem and puts a massive strain on our back four.
No-one can really say that we're in or not for Fabregas. If not the maybe LVG has plans that don't feature him. You can get parts from different makes of supercar and put them together but it still won't work as well as a bog standard Sierra (for example) where the parts compliment one another. If we get Fabregas we'd still need another player in the Keane etd mould to allow him to fully flourish. I'd rather have three ten million pound players anyway if they suit and buy into LVG's system. Doesn't always have to be about the superstar signings. That can come at the next stage unless we get exactly what we want now.
Diafol, pretty fair assessment.
If LVG dpesnt buy fabregas as he may not be a good fit to his system, then we have already made massive improvement on last summer.
Moyes went put and bought Fellaini, who while being a decent player just doesn't have the skill set to play in the role which he was played in. Kagawa is another very good player who doesn't quite fit.
Us not going for fabregas, is a positive in my opinion. It indicates there is a plan in LVGs mind....not something which you could say for Moyes.
http://www.record.xl.pt/Futebol/Internacional/inglaterra/interior.aspx?content_id=887043 i think fabregas to chelsea is a done deal, think cesc will be unveiled as a chelsea player after the world cup
Utopian, that's a good point.
I think the same could be said of Fergie in the last few years with some of his signings as well.
DTKF
Fergie's signings in his last few years were abysmal. There was a bit of a functional feel to those signings and the wow factor was missing too.
That said, fergie was a good man manager and I am sure he would get even our current team challenging for the title. His brilliance though has created problems for the lesser mortals as our mf has become a shambles.
Us not going for fabregas, is a positive in my opinion. It indicates there is a plan in LVGs mind
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that or he hasnt change from his bayern days. LVG is notoriously stubborn when it comes to signing top players, almost wenger esque. In his last season for bayern, he refused to sign anyone. and almost all of his signings while he was at bayern are flops
He is a kind of manager that puts his faith on a young player that may reach his potential in 3 years over signing a top player for that position. Not that it is a bad thing but I dont think that approach will be good enough to get top 4 this next season. getting top 4 is essential
Yep I agree with that.
The signings of RVP and Kagawa in theory seemed like a brilliant transfer window, however, despite winning the title, I think it upset the balance in the side a bit.
Hopefully LVG can correct this problem we've had for a few years because it's seeing us rely far too much on individuals to win us matches - but Fergie was good enough for this not to matter.
He's not a Mourinho player at all, he'll end up in the same boat as Mata. I don't think he's what we need either to be honest, obviously he'd be an improvement, but I think we need someone a bit more physical, we need energy and power in the middle more than we need a Cesc type. The replacement for Carrick is the most important transfer we're after this summer, and Fabregas wouldn't be that.
Goals and assists from CM is what we need.
We need a player who can get round the pitch, put a tackle in, be good defensively as well as being able to pass forward to the attacking players. Basically we need a midfielder (or two!). Not a DM or an AM or anything else you can think of. It's been so long since we've had one of those I think I've forgotten what one looks like. As good as Scholes was (and he could play in a two) he needed a strong MF next to him. His partnership with Carrick was good but they had more time in MF I believe as teams would often drop off fearing the pace of Saha, Rooney and Ronaldo. We don't have that now so need a strong MF to gain an upper hand. For me getting the team dynamic is priority next season and we can go from there.
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LvG
Page 4 of 4
posted on 5/6/14
comment by Earl Brutus (U1449)
posted 11 seconds ago
comment by The_Red_Cognoscente (U9741)
posted 26 seconds ago
To say Fabregas is overrated is just silly and goes against every parameter used to assess a player's ability and performance on the pitch.
Granted, he has had upheavals at Barca (unsurprising, as the likes of DTKF and i called it before he went there); Fabregas is a bonafide world class talent.
Not as silky as the likes of Silva etc but more productive on the pitch.
Should we sign him? I vote yes. But if LVG doesn't have him in his plans, well we just have to trust our manager.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How is it silly to say he's overrated?
It depends how highly people in general rate him, and for some reason a lot of people have him down as some kind of midfield Svengali, he's decent yes but not in that elite bracket of silva, xavi, scholes, pirlo.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think you'd find he is more than 'decent'.
Personally, won't have Silva amongst that list - but that is just me. Silva is a talented footballer but bar city( and even then, he shares his responsibilities with a more than able supporting cast) he has never defined a team or had defining moments as the others.
Is Fabregas as good as the others? Well, it is not really a fair assessment as the aforementioned are significantly older (in football ages) and have had longer careers.
But at Arsenal, Fabregas was a fantastic player.
If you don't want him, fine. That is your right. And perhaps, LVG agrees with you.
But to call him overrated, well the evidence doesn't support your claim.
posted on 5/6/14
Cesc at Arsenal is better than Silva at City. He had a better record, better performances while playing in a deeper role in a weaker team
Stop basing things on how he played at Bayern.
----------------------------------
Why not. He stick to his system even when he did not have the players for it, which lead to his sacking. Its highly unlikely he will use something drastically different at united
posted on 5/6/14
Ok we'll just agree to disagree
posted on 5/6/14
"Not beyond the realms of possibility seeing as he didn't want to come to us when we were champions."
At the time I would have agreed but there did seem like quite a lot noise recently about Fabregas talking to RVP last summer about potentially being interested in a move and RVP was pretty much being used as a middle man.
Not saying it's true but could be some truth in it?
posted on 5/6/14
As much as I want this dude, I'm resigned to the fact that we are behind Chelsea on this one.
@SLM
Please don't mention Modric, makes me want to cry. Just let it go.
posted on 5/6/14
That may be, but my point is that just because he's leaving doesn't mean we haven't made an approach.
Barca knew we were interested, Cesc did, is it that unlikely contact was made between clubs but was swiftly dismissed by the player?
I'm not saying this did happen, but it could have, lots of contact is made by clubs without us or the media picking up on it - how often do you hear a player come out and say a club has approached them and it hadn't been picked up on? It happens often.
We'll find out in good time.
posted on 5/6/14
Darren
Sure, I was just making the point that it sounds like he actually was interested last summer. Maybe not enough to want to leave but I think there may have been some doubt in his mind.
I just hope whoever we are interested in this summer we have already begun initial contact, however little that may be.
posted on 5/6/14
Yep I agree.
I've heard it mentioned that Fabregas is only interested in moving to London. Which may explain why Chelsea appears to be his destination.
posted on 5/6/14
Don't blame him.
posted on 5/6/14
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 2 minutes ago
Don't blame him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What and pass up the opportunity to hang with the rough gals up North?
posted on 5/6/14
Why do people think a DM has to be all action, 100mph?
..............
WTF are yo on about now SLM?
Carrick wasn't a DM when he was at West Ham and he wasn't one at Spurs. Makalele and Essien are what DM's should be,.
We fudged it with Carrick and got away with it for too long. Last season you saw why Carrick isn't suited to that role.
Well, you probably didn't, but the rest of us on here did. Even Robb and Macca.
posted on 5/6/14
Signing a dm is just as vital as signing the more attacking and creative midfielder people are crying out for because the latter will need the former either way.
At least if we only get a dm we can hope that Carrick can rediscover some form in a more attacking role, something he should have been doing anyway.
If we signed Cesc, for example, and played him with Carrick we'd still have speedy players running through our midfield, which is a huge problem and puts a massive strain on our back four.
posted on 5/6/14
No-one can really say that we're in or not for Fabregas. If not the maybe LVG has plans that don't feature him. You can get parts from different makes of supercar and put them together but it still won't work as well as a bog standard Sierra (for example) where the parts compliment one another. If we get Fabregas we'd still need another player in the Keane etd mould to allow him to fully flourish. I'd rather have three ten million pound players anyway if they suit and buy into LVG's system. Doesn't always have to be about the superstar signings. That can come at the next stage unless we get exactly what we want now.
posted on 5/6/14
Diafol, pretty fair assessment.
posted on 5/6/14
If LVG dpesnt buy fabregas as he may not be a good fit to his system, then we have already made massive improvement on last summer.
Moyes went put and bought Fellaini, who while being a decent player just doesn't have the skill set to play in the role which he was played in. Kagawa is another very good player who doesn't quite fit.
Us not going for fabregas, is a positive in my opinion. It indicates there is a plan in LVGs mind....not something which you could say for Moyes.
posted on 5/6/14
http://www.record.xl.pt/Futebol/Internacional/inglaterra/interior.aspx?content_id=887043 i think fabregas to chelsea is a done deal, think cesc will be unveiled as a chelsea player after the world cup
posted on 5/6/14
Utopian, that's a good point.
I think the same could be said of Fergie in the last few years with some of his signings as well.
posted on 5/6/14
DTKF
Fergie's signings in his last few years were abysmal. There was a bit of a functional feel to those signings and the wow factor was missing too.
That said, fergie was a good man manager and I am sure he would get even our current team challenging for the title. His brilliance though has created problems for the lesser mortals as our mf has become a shambles.
posted on 5/6/14
Us not going for fabregas, is a positive in my opinion. It indicates there is a plan in LVGs mind
---------------------------------------------------------
that or he hasnt change from his bayern days. LVG is notoriously stubborn when it comes to signing top players, almost wenger esque. In his last season for bayern, he refused to sign anyone. and almost all of his signings while he was at bayern are flops
He is a kind of manager that puts his faith on a young player that may reach his potential in 3 years over signing a top player for that position. Not that it is a bad thing but I dont think that approach will be good enough to get top 4 this next season. getting top 4 is essential
posted on 5/6/14
Yep I agree with that.
The signings of RVP and Kagawa in theory seemed like a brilliant transfer window, however, despite winning the title, I think it upset the balance in the side a bit.
Hopefully LVG can correct this problem we've had for a few years because it's seeing us rely far too much on individuals to win us matches - but Fergie was good enough for this not to matter.
posted on 5/6/14
He's not a Mourinho player at all, he'll end up in the same boat as Mata. I don't think he's what we need either to be honest, obviously he'd be an improvement, but I think we need someone a bit more physical, we need energy and power in the middle more than we need a Cesc type. The replacement for Carrick is the most important transfer we're after this summer, and Fabregas wouldn't be that.
posted on 5/6/14
Goals and assists from CM is what we need.
posted on 5/6/14
We need a player who can get round the pitch, put a tackle in, be good defensively as well as being able to pass forward to the attacking players. Basically we need a midfielder (or two!). Not a DM or an AM or anything else you can think of. It's been so long since we've had one of those I think I've forgotten what one looks like. As good as Scholes was (and he could play in a two) he needed a strong MF next to him. His partnership with Carrick was good but they had more time in MF I believe as teams would often drop off fearing the pace of Saha, Rooney and Ronaldo. We don't have that now so need a strong MF to gain an upper hand. For me getting the team dynamic is priority next season and we can go from there.
Page 4 of 4