Stretford you are missing the point once again. He didn't say just because they are foreign they are better.
But the talent pool in England is limited compared to what there is abroad because sheer volume of numbers dictates that, let alone analysing all the intricacies as to why certain countries produce more talented players and in more numbers.
This is why there are so many foreign players in the premier league, and in case you haven't noticed, our very own club as well.
We can debate the tradition and what we want all we like. But our views won't have an influence on how the club operate. Whether you like it or not the way things are going at United and the available homegrown talent we have, or is indeed available at other clubs, is not to the standard that the club wants to get back to the top. And if that's the aim, which I believe it is, we'll see an increasingly foreign influenced side over the next few years, in my opinion.
That's not to say the whole team and squad will be foreign. Rooney and Shaw are certs for me to be in the first team, and there are other English players that will be seeing plenty of game time, but the core of our side is likely to be made up of foreign players as there isn't an English core available for us to compete.
We cannot have it both ways. We did in the 90's when the talent was available, the premier league was a different proposition, and the manager was British. We have none of these things at the moment.
Macca
Haven't ever seen Shaw play centrally though. Could do it, I couldn't say but haven't seen it myself.
I'm also not expecting much from either Blackett, Lingaard or James. Nice to see they are getting a chance but I simply don't think they have what it takes to make it at the highest level. Wilson on the other hand I think has that something special and I hope we do everything we can to make that happen.
Like I have said......other than for Argentina (where he played left back) I haven't seen him play.
I have, however, read a few reports on him that suggest he's very erratic at the back at times.
And he's also not exactly the experienced player to make up for loss of Rio, Evra and Vidic either is he?
I think my doubts are well justified but I suppose only time will tell, eh?
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 14 seconds ago
Macca
Haven't ever seen Shaw play centrally though. Could do it, I couldn't say but haven't seen it myself.
-------------------
Shaw can defend
I'm pretty sure he would have no problem playing on the left of a back 3 like Rojo apparently can
He'll play wing back or full back though obviously
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 2 minutes ago
Macca
Haven't ever seen Shaw play centrally though. Could do it, I couldn't say but haven't seen it myself.
I'm also not expecting much from either Blackett, Lingaard or James. Nice to see they are getting a chance but I simply don't think they have what it takes to make it at the highest level. Wilson on the other hand I think has that something special and I hope we do everything we can to make that happen.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah I like Wilson
I think Van Gaal sees Will Keane ahead of him at the moment though. he has actually mentioned him
Macca
Maybe but it is a very different role, a lot more disciplined. Just look at Neville, started out as a CB but moved out wide, I'm sure he could 'do a job' at CB but we never tried as far as I can recall.
Rojo is the other way round to Show though isn't he, primarily a CB who can play LB. Shaw is a LB who could play CB, but I've never actually seen him do it or read he can.
comment by Stretford_Ender85 (U10955)
posted 5 minutes ago
Manutd1982
------------------------------------------------------------------------
So is Marcos Rojo better than some of our English lads because he's foreign? Is that how it works?
If it wasn't Phil Jones but Phillpe Jonesio and instead of coming from Blackburn, he came from Portugal.......would that make it better?
Most of people on here haven't see Rojo play 90 mins of football, other than in World cup, where he most likely won't be playing there for us anyway. I haven't anyway. Just being honest.
Foreign doesn't always mean better
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Quite common to see this type of argument bandied about, but is this really the notion that's generally applied? Just take a look at the transfer fees English players go for. It doesn't really suggest that English players are undervalued.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
If it wasn't Phil Jones but Phillpe Jonesio and instead of coming from Blackburn, he came from Portugal.......would that make it better?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why do people use this ridiculous argument time and again??? Phil Jones could change his name by need poll to Phllipe Pace Power Technique Pele Maradona Maldini Jonesinho and he would still be an absolute bag of wànk.
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 1 hour, 54 minutes ago
Macca
Maybe but it is a very different role, a lot more disciplined. Just look at Neville, started out as a CB but moved out wide, I'm sure he could 'do a job' at CB but we never tried as far as I can recall.
Rojo is the other way round to Show though isn't he, primarily a CB who can play LB. Shaw is a LB who could play CB, but I've never actually seen him do it or read he can.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I thought rojo was primarily a LB who has played 1 season as a CB?
Sure I read he's better at LB
comment by He's French, He's Flash...Louis, Louis, Louis, Louis.. Vaa-aha-aan-Gaal! (U9335)
posted 1 minute ago
If it wasn't Phil Jones but Phillpe Jonesio and instead of coming from Blackburn, he came from Portugal.......would that make it better?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why do people use this ridiculous argument time and again??? Phil Jones could change his name by need poll to Phllipe Pace Power Technique Pele Maradona Maldini Jonesinho and he would still be an absolute bag of wànk.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jones will come good
He's has some beast of performances at cb for us already
I remember a derby where he was the bollox
Too trendy to knock our CBs at the moment
He'll ram his critics words down their throats soon enough
I hope you're right Macca, I truly do. I want all United players to do well and would love all of the ones I criticise to prove me wrong. Unfortunately they continue to back up my perspective on them on the pitch
comment by He's French, He's Flash...Louis, Louis, Louis, Louis.. Vaa-aha-aan-Gaal! (U9335)
posted 8 minutes ago
I hope you're right Macca, I truly do. I want all United players to do well and would love all of the ones I criticise to prove me wrong. Unfortunately they continue to back up my perspective on them on the pitch
----------------------------------------------------------------------
French
Give jones a chance. He's had his problems with injuries and being shunted around
The guy is still only 22. People forget that
We signed Vidic for peanuts at 24 and he ended up brilliant
Jones played ok at the weekend and I can see him going from strength to strength providing he stays healthy
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Page 6 of 6
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posted on 20/8/14
Stretford you are missing the point once again. He didn't say just because they are foreign they are better.
But the talent pool in England is limited compared to what there is abroad because sheer volume of numbers dictates that, let alone analysing all the intricacies as to why certain countries produce more talented players and in more numbers.
This is why there are so many foreign players in the premier league, and in case you haven't noticed, our very own club as well.
We can debate the tradition and what we want all we like. But our views won't have an influence on how the club operate. Whether you like it or not the way things are going at United and the available homegrown talent we have, or is indeed available at other clubs, is not to the standard that the club wants to get back to the top. And if that's the aim, which I believe it is, we'll see an increasingly foreign influenced side over the next few years, in my opinion.
That's not to say the whole team and squad will be foreign. Rooney and Shaw are certs for me to be in the first team, and there are other English players that will be seeing plenty of game time, but the core of our side is likely to be made up of foreign players as there isn't an English core available for us to compete.
We cannot have it both ways. We did in the 90's when the talent was available, the premier league was a different proposition, and the manager was British. We have none of these things at the moment.
posted on 20/8/14
Macca
Haven't ever seen Shaw play centrally though. Could do it, I couldn't say but haven't seen it myself.
I'm also not expecting much from either Blackett, Lingaard or James. Nice to see they are getting a chance but I simply don't think they have what it takes to make it at the highest level. Wilson on the other hand I think has that something special and I hope we do everything we can to make that happen.
posted on 20/8/14
Like I have said......other than for Argentina (where he played left back) I haven't seen him play.
I have, however, read a few reports on him that suggest he's very erratic at the back at times.
And he's also not exactly the experienced player to make up for loss of Rio, Evra and Vidic either is he?
I think my doubts are well justified but I suppose only time will tell, eh?
posted on 20/8/14
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 14 seconds ago
Macca
Haven't ever seen Shaw play centrally though. Could do it, I couldn't say but haven't seen it myself.
-------------------
Shaw can defend
I'm pretty sure he would have no problem playing on the left of a back 3 like Rojo apparently can
He'll play wing back or full back though obviously
posted on 20/8/14
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 2 minutes ago
Macca
Haven't ever seen Shaw play centrally though. Could do it, I couldn't say but haven't seen it myself.
I'm also not expecting much from either Blackett, Lingaard or James. Nice to see they are getting a chance but I simply don't think they have what it takes to make it at the highest level. Wilson on the other hand I think has that something special and I hope we do everything we can to make that happen.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah I like Wilson
I think Van Gaal sees Will Keane ahead of him at the moment though. he has actually mentioned him
posted on 20/8/14
Macca
Maybe but it is a very different role, a lot more disciplined. Just look at Neville, started out as a CB but moved out wide, I'm sure he could 'do a job' at CB but we never tried as far as I can recall.
Rojo is the other way round to Show though isn't he, primarily a CB who can play LB. Shaw is a LB who could play CB, but I've never actually seen him do it or read he can.
posted on 20/8/14
comment by Stretford_Ender85 (U10955)
posted 5 minutes ago
Manutd1982
------------------------------------------------------------------------
So is Marcos Rojo better than some of our English lads because he's foreign? Is that how it works?
If it wasn't Phil Jones but Phillpe Jonesio and instead of coming from Blackburn, he came from Portugal.......would that make it better?
Most of people on here haven't see Rojo play 90 mins of football, other than in World cup, where he most likely won't be playing there for us anyway. I haven't anyway. Just being honest.
Foreign doesn't always mean better
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Quite common to see this type of argument bandied about, but is this really the notion that's generally applied? Just take a look at the transfer fees English players go for. It doesn't really suggest that English players are undervalued.
posted on 20/8/14
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 20/8/14
If it wasn't Phil Jones but Phillpe Jonesio and instead of coming from Blackburn, he came from Portugal.......would that make it better?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why do people use this ridiculous argument time and again??? Phil Jones could change his name by need poll to Phllipe Pace Power Technique Pele Maradona Maldini Jonesinho and he would still be an absolute bag of wànk.
posted on 20/8/14
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 1 hour, 54 minutes ago
Macca
Maybe but it is a very different role, a lot more disciplined. Just look at Neville, started out as a CB but moved out wide, I'm sure he could 'do a job' at CB but we never tried as far as I can recall.
Rojo is the other way round to Show though isn't he, primarily a CB who can play LB. Shaw is a LB who could play CB, but I've never actually seen him do it or read he can.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I thought rojo was primarily a LB who has played 1 season as a CB?
Sure I read he's better at LB
posted on 20/8/14
comment by He's French, He's Flash...Louis, Louis, Louis, Louis.. Vaa-aha-aan-Gaal! (U9335)
posted 1 minute ago
If it wasn't Phil Jones but Phillpe Jonesio and instead of coming from Blackburn, he came from Portugal.......would that make it better?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why do people use this ridiculous argument time and again??? Phil Jones could change his name by need poll to Phllipe Pace Power Technique Pele Maradona Maldini Jonesinho and he would still be an absolute bag of wànk.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jones will come good
He's has some beast of performances at cb for us already
I remember a derby where he was the bollox
Too trendy to knock our CBs at the moment
He'll ram his critics words down their throats soon enough
posted on 20/8/14
I hope you're right Macca, I truly do. I want all United players to do well and would love all of the ones I criticise to prove me wrong. Unfortunately they continue to back up my perspective on them on the pitch
posted on 20/8/14
comment by He's French, He's Flash...Louis, Louis, Louis, Louis.. Vaa-aha-aan-Gaal! (U9335)
posted 8 minutes ago
I hope you're right Macca, I truly do. I want all United players to do well and would love all of the ones I criticise to prove me wrong. Unfortunately they continue to back up my perspective on them on the pitch
----------------------------------------------------------------------
French
Give jones a chance. He's had his problems with injuries and being shunted around
The guy is still only 22. People forget that
We signed Vidic for peanuts at 24 and he ended up brilliant
Jones played ok at the weekend and I can see him going from strength to strength providing he stays healthy
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